No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...

[mjrhealth]

I think that you lack discernment. You seem to be the kind of person that can't differentiate between the two sources of inspiration. In the sense that, you would allow any false doctrine or preacher into your midst, because you have no discretion.
Is that true?
BTW, you keep repeating yourself, after 5 or 6 posts, you've said nothing more than 'why not', or 'who are you to say'. Very shallow.

Ye we can see what discernment id doing on these forums cant we.... @marks said about leaving out the bible, what you see here is what happens when you leave out Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

Yes.

Hence Peter's admonition to make your calling and election sure.

Here's a question . . .

Absent seeing, how do we actually Know that we've entered into God's presence?

Much love!

That's an easy one

God makes Himself known. He moves. And if we can see and hear what the world cannot, it is because we are in His presence and He has revealed Himself in ways that cannot be seen with eyes of flesh. But one glimpse in the spirit is greater than a lifetime in the world.

 

[marks]

That's an easy one

God makes Himself known. He moves. And if we can see and hear what the world cannot, it is because we are in His presence and He has revealed Himself in ways that cannot be seen with eyes of flesh. But one glimpse in the spirit is greater than a lifetime in the world.

Too bad I can't give multiple likes!

 

[DNB]

I've long believed that God is fully able to express Himself to us in ways that don't leave us questioning what just happened.

Much love!

That's my point!

 

[DNB]

For me it's primarily a matter of personal edification, and whether my dream or such came from God or my own imagination, if it is true to the Scriptures, then it's truth remains.

One quick example, was this seeing the kingdom? Not sleeping, but half awake, my mother, whom I had not forgiven, but whom I believe to be born again, having died, was before me, robed in white, in her 30's, beautiful, surrounded by white, turned to me, said, Mark! It's so wonderful!!! with joy in her face, and then it was over.

A dream from my own mind? Probibly.

But in that moment it was real to me that she was perfected. The person that had done so much harm was dead, and my mother was glorified. And my anger and bitterness melted away at that moment.

From God? Probibly. Does it pass the "divine inspiration" test? I don't know.

Much love!

Well, now it gets controversial. I don't believe that anyone is in heaven until after Judgement Day.
So, therefore, outside of the solely personal message, which i have an extreme problem with, the logistics are completely unbiblical to me.
So, unequivocally, i would say that it was derived from your own imagination.

 

[DNB]

I will explain it....past, present and future all exist at the same time with God... Jesus roamed the earth and was seen in the OT before he was even born yet....God saw the end from the beginning...And consider the transfiguration where Peter, James and John witnessed His transfiguration and there appeared Moses and Elijah.....
Try to open your mind to see things spiritually and not carnal. The law of physics does not apply to His world.

You're talking about very different things. You didn't resolve how MJR was transported in time to 30CE +-. Especially the utter nonsense that ensued?
Sorry, Jesus did not roam the earth before he was born. In other words, he wasn't even alive before he was born.
Heart2Soul, you're entering a mystical realm that you'll never be able to comprehend, explain, or apply in any manner. It's absolutely flaky nonsense that you're professing.
I don't think that you're flaky, or nonsensical, but the rationale that you're expressing at this point, is too implausible, and thus, incomprehensible. Who can make sense of it, and therefore, become edified?

 

[DNB]

Ye we can see what discernment id doing on these forums cant we.... @marks said about leaving out the bible, what you see here is what happens when you leave out Jesus.

I believe that Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, first-born from the dead and first-born of creation. The only way to the Father, and the only way to salvation.
What am I missing?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe that Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, first-born from the dead and first-born of creation. The only way to the Father, and the only way to salvation.
What am I missing?

By your own earlier comment, its the Holy Spirit you are missing...?

 

[marks]

Well, now it gets controversial. I don't believe that anyone is in heaven until after Judgement Day.
So, therefore, outside of the solely personal message, which i have an extreme problem with, the logistics are completely unbiblical to me.
So, unequivocally, i would say that it was derived from your own imagination.

Hi DNB,

Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm not at all dogmatic about the nature of this little snippet.

We test according to the doctrine we understand and believe, and I think that is right to do. So I don't have an issue with your viewpoint. I would not be surprised at all to learn conclusively that this was the working of my own mind.

Just the same, I find numerous places in the Bible that teach we as God's children already have celestial bodies, are already in heaven, and when we die in this world, we find we are in the heavenly realm with Jesus.

Now, let's say for sake of argument that you are correct that no one is in heaven until after Judgment Day, could it be that God could give a vision from past that future judgment, to show me my mother in the heavenly realm, transcendent to time? God could do that, could He not?

I'm curious . . . why do you think God would not speak directly to us about personal matters in our lives? Would you believe me if I told you I am now alive because God spoke to me to tell me what to do?

Much love!

 

[DNB]

By your own earlier comment, its the Holy Spirit you are missing...?

Could be argued, ...but, my reply was in regard to the fact that MJR told me that I was leaving out Jesus.

 

[marks]

But one glimpse in the spirit is greater than a lifetime in the world.

Isn't it just amazing what one little glimpse in the spirit can accomplish in our minds?

Much love!

 

[DNB]

Hi DNB,

Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm not at all dogmatic about the nature of this little snippet.

We test according to the doctrine we understand and believe, and I think that is right to do. So I don't have an issue with your viewpoint. I would not be surprised at all to learn conclusively that this was the working of my own mind.

Just the same, I find numerous places in the Bible that teach we as God's children already have celestial bodies, are already in heaven, and when we die in this world, we find we are in the heavenly realm with Jesus.

Now, let's say for sake of argument that you are correct that no one is in heaven until after Judgment Day, could it be that God could give a vision from past that future judgment, to show me my mother in the heavenly realm, transcendent to time? God could do that, could He not?

I'm curious . . . why do you think God would not speak directly to us about personal matters in our lives? Would you believe me if I told you I am now alive because God spoke to me to tell me what to do?

Much love!

I understand marks, you sound extremely reasonable about the whole thing, and open to questioning the meaning and source of your dreams.
In regard to your question, I don't think that such an epiphany would be necessary, for what issues that you might have with your mother (so to speak), would come from a deeper issue within yourself, ...having nothing to do with your mother, but with God. For example, I don't think God cares about my petty concerns about my relationships on earth, as much as he does that I love him and Jesus before all (very lofty requirement).
I totally believe that God answers prayers, but, sometimes what concerns us, or what we may pray for, are not always inline with what he wants us to be concerning ourselves with.
I say this also for the sake of argument. I'm just saying that visions and dreams on such a personal level, appear very dubious to me. Because guaranteed, whatever a person is dwelling or fretting over, whatever is so intensely on their mind, they will dream about it, whether God's involved or not.

 

[marks]

I don't think God cares about my petty concerns about my relationships on earth, as much as he does that I love him and Jesus before all (very lofty requirement).

I think God cares very much to free us from those things that hold us through the weakness of the flesh.

I think that sometimes He leads us through convoluted pathways knowing we need to learn to navigate, and other times just reaches in and gives a tweak. In this case, dissolving years of anger and bitterness in a moment a vivid realization of what salvation means, and why we forgive others.

I need not hold any sin against anyone. Those who are not born again, they have no hope of not sinning, and it's God they have to deal with, not me, and those who are born again, it's no longer them that sin, rather it's the sin resident in the corrupt flesh.

But this is where I'm not so concerned over the origin, in that I have no issue of conscience towards the theology of the thing, I could very well have imagined it but based on Scripture, or at least my understanding, and the fruit is Godly and right.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

But when I was younger in the Lord, I would have woken and gone flying off saying, God told me to do such and such, I know He did!! But I didn't do that, because I've learned that I do NOT know what He is saying and can't put all my imaginings into it. But when the other person said the same thing I heard, then I knew that it was about him.

"And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." Gen 41:32

"Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken." Ecc 4:11-12

"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." Matt 18:16

"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true." John 5:31-32

 

[mjrhealth]

I believe that Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, first-born from the dead and first-born of creation. The only way to the Father, and the only way to salvation.
What am I missing?

Thats what you say, than you deny Him,

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

as I have said so many times before, just because you havnt seeing does not make it so,

Joh 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

As I said, you are just like Thomas.

Any one who Loves Christ can only boast of Christ, love to hear what others have seeing and heard, yet all you want to do is call them fools.

 

[marks]

As I said, you are just like Thomas.

Remember . . . Jesus told His disciples that if someone told them Jesus was in the inner room, don't believe it, so Thomas was just doing what he had been instructed.

Myself, I don't see @DNB wanting to call people fools.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

Remember . . . Jesus told His disciples that if someone told them Jesus was in the inner room, don't believe it, so Thomas was just doing what he had been instructed.

Myself, I don't see @DNB wanting to call people fools.

Much love!

have you read his posts.

I guess you also missed this bit

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[DNB]

I think God cares very much to free us from those things that hold us through the weakness of the flesh.

I think that sometimes He leads us through convoluted pathways knowing we need to learn to navigate, and other times just reaches in and gives a tweak. In this case, dissolving years of anger and bitterness in a moment a vivid realization of what salvation means, and why we forgive others.

I need not hold any sin against anyone. Those who are not born again, they have no hope of not sinning, and it's God they have to deal with, not me, and those who are born again, it's no longer them that sin, rather it's the sin resident in the corrupt flesh.

But this is where I'm not so concerned over the origin, in that I have no issue of conscience towards the theology of the thing, I could very well have imagined it but based on Scripture, or at least my understanding, and the fruit is Godly and right.

Much love!

Alright marks, just as long we're not too frivolous about every imagination that we have.
And I'm sorry, I'm not really sure how years of bitterness gets resolved by seeing your antagonist in heaven, necessarily?
I don't say this because I want, or need, to know the details, but just meaning that I'm not making the connection, further convincing me that it was trauma that invoked your dream.
If seeing someone in heaven that you harboured much resentment for, alleviated your stress, ...maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know what insight that offers, I would think that God could have imparted a deeper meaning to you. For again, i don't think that the issue is about your mother? It's about people in general, who are like that, it's about the constant battle we have against wicked, selfish and depraved people, for example.
For, I ask you, what does salvation mean in regard to what you saw (which is what you said the significance of the dream was)?

 

[DNB]

Thats what you say, than you deny Him,

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

as I have said so many times before, just because you havnt seeing does not make it so,

Joh 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

As I said, you are just like Thomas.

Any one who Loves Christ can only boast of Christ, love to hear what others have seeing and heard, yet all you want to do is call them fools.

Not fools, but frivolous, ...verging on foolish.

 

[DNB]

have you read his posts.

I guess you also missed this bit

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Would you quit picking on Thomas, for crying out loud. He was one of the twelve. Besides, he was not the only one who had trouble believing, but for some reason he always gets the bad rap.

Luke 24:9-11
24:9. When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10. It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11. But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.

Matthew 28:16-17
28:16. Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Luke 24:13-25
24:13. Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14. They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16. but they were kept from recognizing him.
17. He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"
...
20. "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before
God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21. but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place.
....
25. He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!