The Book of Revelation, Understood?

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amadeus

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@amadeus ,

Do you not believe our flesh is corrupted, while Jesus' flesh was not?

Much love!
Jesus was born a man with corruptible flesh as were we. That is, while he could have sinned, he did not! He never corrupted that corruptible flesh by sinning. Everyone of us did!

Jesus did clear the Way for us. He made it possible for us to become incorruptible. When Jesus overcame all the temptations of a man of flesh, he became the first incorruptible man and then he was ready to lay down his life to open the Door. He became the Door so that we could walk through...

Even now anyone who has accepted the Life that Jesus brought is still corruptible so long as he is still able to sin. When we have overcome it all, meaning all of the temptations to which we are still attracted, then we also will be incorruptible:

"And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." I Cor 9:25-27


"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory" I Cor 15:54
 

marks

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7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Do you have an ear? The Spirit is speaking to the churches, plural, and you, singular, are to hear.

What does it mean to overcome?

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

1 John 2:13
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Simply stated, nika, overcome, means conquer.

I believe to overcome in our Christian life means to endure through all circumstances in our lives without sinning. I believe we do this by simply continuing to believe that Jesus is everything we need, that He loves us, that He never leaves us, and that we are accepted fully by Him, because of what He did for us.

In that, there are no hindrances towards our living out our love for others, as we grow in that love.

We are under Jesus, that is, we live according to what He says, and what He wants. The world, and our flesh, want to drag us back into their pattern, we resist by continuing to believe.

Much love!
 

marks

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Jesus was born a man with corruptible flesh as were we. That is, while he could have sinned, he did not! He never corrupted that corruptible flesh by sinning. Everyone of us did!
I personally believe that all who were born from Adam inherited the corruption of the flesh by sin.

Adam and Eve started fresh. Jesus also started fresh. All others were conceived in sin, and entered life a sinner.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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These letters were addressed to the messengers.
To be DELIVERED to the churches. They were delegated by Christ to deliver His messages. But the letters were to the churches, not the messengers (the angels).
 

amadeus

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I personally believe that all who were born from Adam inherited the corruption of the flesh by sin.

Adam and Eve started fresh. Jesus also started fresh. All others were conceived in sin, and entered life a sinner.

Much love!
Actually, Adam and Eve died when they disobeyed God. The children of dead parents are also necessarily dead. Jesus confirmed the deadness of the people walking around him here:

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22

So God sent His Son to bring Life. Anyone who did then had the "fresh" start of which you speak. They then had the opportunity to succeed where their first carnal parents [Adam and Eve] did not.

"...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10


A more abundant Life than Adam and Eve had before they disobeyed, because we will then with this new Life have the power to do what Jesus did: overcome all temptations and never die. If a person born anew with the Life that Jesus brought fails as Adam and Eve failed, then...

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

We started in death, but if after we have received Life, we should choose by our continued disobedience in our own ways we will die again... the second death for us from which there is no resurrection.
 

marks

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To be DELIVERED to the churches. They were delegated by Christ to deliver His messages. But the letters were to the churches, not the messengers (the angels).
Hi Enoch,

Isn't this the wording used?

To the angel of the church of Ephesus, write . . . to whom? To the angel.

I know your (singular - whose?) works . . . the angel's works. And so on. How do you explain that?

Much love!
 

marks

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Actually, Adam and Eve died when they disobeyed God. The children of dead parents are also necessarily dead. Jesus confirmed the deadness of the people walking around him here:

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22

So God sent His Son to bring Life. Anyone who did then had the "fresh" start of which you speak. They then had the opportunity to succeed where their first carnal parents [Adam and Eve] did not.

"...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10


A more abundant Life than Adam and Eve had before they disobeyed, because we will then with this new Life have the power to do what Jesus did: overcome all temptations and never die. If a person born anew with the Life that Jesus brought fails as Adam and Eve failed, then...

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

We started in death, but if after we have received Life, we should choose by our continued disobedience in our own ways we will die again... the second death for us from which there is no resurrection.
OK, thank you for refreshing me on your view. I most heartily and passionately disagree on this. I am wholy convinced that our rebirth in Christ, our new life in Him, is a permanent new life, having been born of God, we will not die. Not that it merely gives us another chance to sink or swim.

Much love!
 
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Waiting on him

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OK, thank you for refreshing me on your view. I most heartily and passionately disagree on this. I am wholy convinced that our rebirth in Christ, our new life in Him, is a permanent new life, having been born of God, we will not die. Not that it merely gives us another chance to sink or swim.

Much love!
Isn’t this the same as saying overcome or be overcome??
 

amadeus

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OK, thank you for refreshing me on your view. I most heartily and passionately disagree on this. I am wholy convinced that our rebirth in Christ, our new life in Him, is a permanent new life, having been born of God, we will not die. Not that it merely gives us another chance to sink or swim.

Much love!
Actually it is our first chance as you put it, "to sink or swim". Do you really believe that God is a respecter of persons?
 
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101G

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Revelation 2:1 "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks"
The Angel, as said is a person carrying forth a message from God, as in, a Minister, or servant of God.
The name Ephesus = "permitted”, meaning give authorization or consent to (someone) to do something. My source for this definition is, Thayer's Greek Definitions. Here, it’s the Greek, G2181.
-Original: Ἔφεσος
-Transliteration: Ephesos
-Phonetic: ef'-es-os
-Definition: Ephesus = "permitted"
1. a maritime city of Asia Minor, capital of Ionia and under the Romans, of proconsular Asia, situated on the Icarian Sea between Smyrna and Miletus

Here our Lord and saviour, again, he vets himself as the only True and Living God. As said, holding the seven stars in his right hand. One other thing about the RIGHT HAND here, it’s the POWER of God and the Power of God is in his ARM, God himself, the Holy Spirit. And it was the Holy Spirit, God, who have the Power to open the seals of the book/bible and look thereon, Revelation 5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals”.
We’ll discuss these verses in detail when we get to chapter 5 Lord’s willing.

And it is the same Holy Ghost who can, and will teach us what’s in the book/Bible, which was in his right hand,. (see Luke 12:12, John 14:26, and 1 Corinthians 2:13).

Revelation 2:2 "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
The Keyword that Jumps out here is the word “patience”, as in the next verse, meaning, The capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious. this lack of becoming annoyed is What Christ gives a warning about

Revelation 2:3 "And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
As God did by the apostle Paul, he warns this church about false prophets, teachers, and false apostles "BEFORE". he calls for the elders together at Ephesus to give them this same warning again. Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Acts 20:29 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Acts 20:30 "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them". (one might want to read that verse agan).

Acts 20:31 "Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

And because they know some was not of God, (even some amoung them), yet as the name Ephesus means, they “permitted” some of their way in the church. Because the next verses bear this out.

Revelation 2:4 "Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

"The warning and danger of Syncretism "
Remember this is directed at the LEADERSHIP in the churches. Some may have good intention, but the wrong doctrine
Revelation 2:5 "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

(please note, "and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent". that's a danger sign there.
this first work I have a handle on, but if anyone else have something on the work please post it.

Revelation 2:6 "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
For the Nicolaitans: it means to a vanquishers of a people, conquerors over the laity (the people). ruling people without LOVE. This the Lord Jesus hate. Just like many leader in congregation today, they think they own the church, and have people to do what they say. That church can be seen in some churches today. ruling without LOVE, which means to serve, yet they want to be served. maybe this is the first "Work" they left?

Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
hear what the Spirit teaches one to do. read with the ONE who have open the book/Bible, and seen there on. Those who hear his voice … today, will overcome.

So the Lord Jesus goes straight to the problem in this church, “LEADERSHIP”. the Gift he has in his right Hand. Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 4:15 "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

So reading Marks chart we see all of this in the overview of the chart.

Looking for others input.

PICJAG
 
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Waiting on him

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I believe many are of the opinion that Jesus comes to us to enhance something that’s already there, my opinion is that He enters into that which is dead, and He overcomes.
 
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Waiting on him

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I’m an overcomer!!!!!!


Revelation 3:17 KJV
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Tecarta Bible
 
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Waiting on him

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Actually it is our first chance as you put it, "to sink or swim". Do you really believe that God is a respecter of persons?
Odd you ask that, I was thinking on this earlier this morning, He seemed to prefer John over the others?
 

marks

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Actually it is our first chance as you put it, "to sink or swim". Do you really believe that God is a respecter of persons?
Of course God states emphatically that He is NOT a respector of persons.

Oh, and I was meaning that we got a new chance like Adam had.

But the very fact that God is not a respecter or persons tells me that it's not going to be about whether you do good works and I don't, God forbid!

Romans teaches us that justification is by faith for the very reason that it can be to everyone, not just certain ones.

Much love!
 

Willie T

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Try this one: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/f8/77/d4f877846eb2620c5f7c045f7a48ec24.png
Hit "Ctrl" and the "plus" sign several times after you open it. (Hit it more if you need to in order to get it as large as you want, and you can "scroll" at the bottom and at the right side to see all of it.)
d4f877846eb2620c5f7c045f7a48ec24.png
 
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Davy

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A chart like this one can be helpful . . .

d4f877846eb2620c5f7c045f7a48ec24.png


Much love!

I hope you guys aren't going to get into all the "Church Ages" stuff from Darby's brand of Dispensationalism. That theory pretty much ruins the main purpose of our Lord Jesus giving those 7 Messages.

All 7 Messages are still in effect today for all... Churches. The believer should be able to compare those 7 Messages to their particular Church and discover what kind of Church they are in.

Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 of the Churches in Asia (Minor). Can you understand who those represent, and what understanding they had in common which the other five Churches didn't have?
 

Willie T

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I hope you guys aren't going to get into all the "Church Ages" stuff from Darby's brand of Dispensationalism. That theory pretty much ruins the main purpose of our Lord Jesus giving those 7 Messages.

All 7 Messages are still in effect today for all... Churches. The believer should be able to compare those 7 Messages to their particular Church and discover what kind of Church they are in.

Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 of the Churches in Asia (Minor). Can you understand who those represent, and what understanding they had in common which the other five Churches didn't have?
Davy, you can't fight that Dispensationalism stuff until they open their eyes, and decide to study for themselves.... so there really is no point in trying.