The Apostate Holy Laughter Movement

[Enow]

BTW, the Association of Vineyard Churches, also known as the Vineyard Movement, is a neocharismatic evangelical Christian denomination. It has over 2,400 affiliated churches worldwide. The Vineyard Movement is rooted in the charismatic renewal and historic evangelicalism.

Bethel is very proud to boast that they are NON-DENOMINATIONAL.

Take a look at the link at that site, listing all the big names in ministry in endorsing it.

Unholy Laughter

And tell me why no lives were changed as a result. Because that was all that phenomnon was about; just the phenomenon.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The fruit of a false prophet is how it gathers thorns and thistles, not just across the denominational divide but across religions and the occult divide too.

So does might make right? Does numbers mean they can do no wrong? And yet Jesus warned that because of how bad it is in the last days, only a few will find the way in coming to God the Ftaher by which is by the only way of the Son and not chasing after the "Holy Spirit" in the worship place if saved believers want to avoid seducing spirits, because the Holy Spirit is in us since salvation so we can know what the spirit of the antichrist is; whatever comes over a believer later in life as a believer and whatever is felt outside of the believer in the worship place, pushing them to something else besides honoring the Son in worship.

 

[Enow]

works both ways...One side claims it is not of His Spirit, the other claims it is His Spirit. what I don’t understand is how God is such a respecter of persons. Some get dust. Some get laughter. When the Spirit moves across a congregation of hundreds falling down under being touched ...how those in wheel chairs at the back of the auditoriums that are coming in for healing ...God skips right over them. Often it is suggested others are just jealous to never have fully experienced it...again, how and why does God skip through congregations favoring some over others for special perks? I’m sorry...I just don’t get it. Usually it is on those gathered in the front ...the same ones every time drinking up a special “double” anointing from the head which is and was anointed that being Christ. I could be wrong but Jesus Christ always went straight to the ones in the crowds that were in the worst need and worse way and condition, left by this world without any hope. Yet, God skips right over those brought in wheel chairs and sprinkles dust and laughter?

The discernment is because God is not a respecter of persons is why this movement is not of Him at all. Indeed, we are all suppose to share in one testimony in speaking the same thing and having the same judgment that we all had one drink of the One Spirit & it was at our salvation at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Problem here is that it will get worse for those that have been deceived. Unless they repent, they will continue to take phenomenon over the Word of God where they may find themselves left behind when the Bridegroom comes because they were out to the market seeking to be filled.

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Willie T]

Please don't keep making yourself look foolish. You just read the Christianity Today article that told of John Wimber severing ties with Toronto because they were doing that stuff.

 

[Enow]

Please don't keep making yourself look foolish. You just read the Christianity Today article that told of John Wimber severing ties with Toronto because they were doing that stuff.

It didn't say it was going to stop the practice of the holy laughter movement. This was a save face moment to appease the Biblical protesters of that Toronto's Blessings because they said "We do not need the Word of God any more. All we need is the Spirit".

So basically, I just see a publicity spin so as to appear more in moderation in these things by including scripture even though scripture reproves what they are both doing in their respective places.

As it is, you are still supporting the movement, right? It is not like you were trying to show an article that they were reproving it altogether, but I get why they did that in that article because Toronto was going way more extreme by denouncing scripture to just go with the Spirit for all they need.

Still apostasy, even in moderation.

 

[Stan B]

You might want to do some actual research before you make yourself appear too foolish.

Leaders of the Anaheim, California- based Vineyard Association of Churches last month voted to sever ties with the controversial Airport Vineyard fellowship in Toronto. The split, however, may not be permanent.

I have no interest whatsoever in researching anything in the charismatic world. I just have a lot of very inside information as to what is happening here in Toronto, whether the Vineyard, of one of its morphed aliases, such as 'Catch the Fire'. Unfortunately, I have more very inside information on this bunch than I ever wanted to know.

Although not a Pentecostal, I attend a couple of their churches for many decades. I have watched as they sank into a sea of apostasy, to the point I want nothing more to do with this bunch. I was shocked, as a well-known pastor of large church, as he presented his satanic preterist views in a 31 sermon series on the book of Revelation, tearing out one page of Revelation after another, in addition to the Book of Ezekiel. I have had my fill of this Pentecostal nonsense

The entire charismatic bunch in my area has gone down the tubes irretrievabley. So I no longer attend local churches, but now listen to our family pastor Dr. Jeff Parish at Indian Rocks Baptist Church, just outside of St. Petersburg. You may have heard of them. He is an awesome Bible teacher, and all of his sermons are all available online. I particularly enjoy his series on Romans, and have listened to the series a number of times.

Living in Toronto, how did a church in Florida get to be our home church for four generations? Our family tends to be bi-country nomads, enjoying summer in the north, and then heading south when the snow starts to fall. But at my age, heading south for the winter, is no longer an option. While my wife and I spent much of our latter life on the road in a motorhome, when she died, I gave the motorhome away, because our nomadic lifestyle had come to an end. :-( So I now live my end of life from a vicarious perspective.

 

[Willie T]

It didn't say it was going to stop the practice of the holy laughter movement. This was a save face moment to appease the Biblical protesters of that Toronto's Blessings because they said "We do not need the Word of God any more. All we need is the Spirit".

So basically, I just see a publicity spin so as to appear more in moderation in these things by including scripture even though scripture reproves what they are both doing in their respective places.

As it is, you are still supporting the movement, right? It is not like you were trying to show an article that they were reproving it altogether, but I get why they did that in that article because Toronto was going way more extreme by denouncing scripture to just go with the Spirit for all they need.

Still apostasy, even in moderation.

Where did you ever get the idea I support that "Laughter" movement? I said it did not create demonic God-haters in the people I know very closely, and I said the experience is still viewed today (25 years later) as a positive one by them. It did absolutely nothing for me that night decades ago.

What I do NOT support is condemning things as Satanic just because I don't understand anything about them.

 

[Willie T]

I have no interest whatsoever in researching anything in the charismatic world. I just have a lot of very inside information as to what is happening here in Toronto, whether the Vineyard, of one of its morphed aliases, such as 'Catch the Fire'. Unfortunately, I have more very inside information on this bunch than I ever wanted to know.

Although not a Pentecostal, I attend a couple of their churches for many decades. I have watched as they sank into a sea of apostasy, to the point I want nothing more to do with this bunch. I was shocked, as a well-known pastor of large church, as he presented his satanic preterist views in a 31 sermon series on the book of Revelation, tearing out one page of Revelation after another, in addition to the Book of Ezekiel. I have had my fill of this Pentecostal nonsense

The entire charismatic bunch in my area has gone down the tubes irretrievabley. So I no longer attend local churches, but now listen to our family pastor Dr. Jeff Parish at Indian Rocks Baptist Church, just outside of St. Petersburg. You may have heard of them. He is an awesome Bible teacher, and all of his sermons are all available online. I particularly enjoy his series on Romans, and have listened to the series a number of times.

Living in Toronto, how did a church in Florida get to be our home church for four generations? Our family tends to be bi-country nomads, enjoying summer in the north, and then heading south when the snow starts to fall. But at my age, heading south for the winter, is no longer an option. While my wife and I spent much of our latter life on the road in a motorhome, when she died, I gave the motorhome away, because our nomadic lifestyle had come to an end. :-( So I now live my end of life from a vicarious perspective.

I know it well. It is one of our area's "Mega Churches." (And this picture is just the Worship Center.)

 

[DNB]

Hello DNB,
I will never say someone is lying about these things. Just because I have not experienced them, and yes...do find the holy laughing and gyrating on the floor disturbing, who am I to question if God has not given this to some? My question would be: Why? for what purpose? Not my place to judge our bros and sisters as it is their personal experience.

Sorry Nancy, I am judging.
It is my place to judge, as it is yours, and I will do so with the utmost confidence that what was on that video, or any other discussions on this matter either advocating, or remaining indifferent towards this movement, is absolute insanity, and straight from the devil.
Anyone who engages is such activity, will turn out the worse for it, for sure!

 

[amadeus]

It would be tough for them to discern seducing spirits if they believe the Holy Spirit would also make believers do that. Signs of the times.

They are still our brothers and sister for why we should pray for them. We can only agree to disagree with them and hope the Lord helps them to see the truth about what they are involved with to depart from before the Bridegroom comes.

Paul said those who go astray and are disorderly are still brothers in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 but specifically in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

And who gets to decide what is disorderly? Where is the line drawn between recognizing disorder and judging, which Jesus spoke against here?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2

 

[amadeus]

Watching Heidi Baker stumble around drunk and laughing uncontrollably has always been disturbing.

Yes, joyful in the Lord for what He has done but do not see how that translates to intoxicated and in a stupor in the House of the Lord. Jesus came to the man legion and what was disturbing to others who witnessed was how Christ had the man who had previously been ”mad”, the man sat fully clothed and in his right mind. Paul also spoke of God’s giving the Spirit of love and a sound mind...then urges ...”be sober.”

"And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" Acts 2:12-18

 

[Enow]

Where did you ever get the idea I support that "Laughter" movement? I said it did not create demonic God-haters in the people I know very closely, and I said the experience is still viewed today (25 years later) as a positive one by them. It did absolutely nothing for me that night decades ago.

Umm.. sorry, but still that comes off as supporting it even though it did nothing for you.

What I do NOT support is condemning things as Satanic just because I don't understand anything about them.

Scripture exposes it as a work of darkness when anyone preaches to already saved believers into seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign, even a sign of tongues. It is confusion which God is not the author of.

There is no other calling; there is no other Jesus to receive; there is no more continual filling of the Spirit so we do not mimic the rudiments of the world in how they seek spirits continually after a sign testifying to our completeness in Christ as well as our rest in Jesus Christ as Spirit-filled saved believers.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 

[Enow]

And who gets to decide what is disorderly? Where is the line drawn between recognizing disorder and judging, which Jesus spoke against here?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2

Khundalini existed before Pentecost had come in Acts 2.

So why would God mimic that when He is calling those sinners away from those spirits and their practices to a personal reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ rather than to those spirits of the antichrists after their signs?

Kind of hard to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil if visiting spirits are mimicking khundalini and yet believers thinks that was the Holy Spirit when He is in us as Spirit-filled believers all the time for us to say we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[amadeus]

Yeah, thinking God administers Holy Laughter is as crazy as thinking he would have Isaiah go around stark naked from the waist, down for three solid years.
God just doesn't do things like that, does He? (He must not, because you guys have told me so.)

And of course God, Himself would never have any person laugh nor would He Himself engage in laughing at people, would He? LOL

"And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me.
Gen 21:6

"Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, That which thou hast prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria I have heard.
This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee." I Kings 19:20-21

"He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalm 2:4

"The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming." Psalm 37-12-13

"God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah.
The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:
Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness." Psalm 52:5-7

"But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision." Psalm 59:8

When the LORD turned again the captivity of Zion, we were like them that dream.
Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: then said they among the heathen, The LORD hath done great things for them.
The LORD hath done great things for us; whereof we are glad." Psalm 126:1-3

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;" Ecc 3:1,3

"Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh." Luke 6:21

If God decides to say that you, or I, or that other guy needs to laugh now, should we be like Job wanting to reason with Him?

"Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God." Job 13:1
Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me."
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:4-6

Or should we be like Peter and try argue with Him?

"But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:14

 

[Preacher4Truth]

And who gets to decide what is disorderly? Where is the line drawn between recognizing disorder and judging, which Jesus spoke against here?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:1-2

More Scripture out of context, and the hilarious thing? You also are judging and condemning even yourself by your own misuseage. I'm sure you didn't intend to judge yourself, but another.

The Matthew 7:1 text wasn't written to defend false signs and false gospels from discerning true believers. It is really amazing how often you attack truth, attack those who expose error and endorse falsities.

 

[amadeus]

Khundalini existed before Pentecost had come in Acts 2.

So why would God mimic that when He is calling those sinners away from those spirits and their practices to a personal reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ rather than to those spirits of the antichrists after their signs?

Kind of hard to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil if visiting spirits are mimicking khundalini and yet believers thinks that was the Holy Spirit when He is in us as Spirit-filled believers all the time for us to say we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

What does Khundalini have to do with what God is doing? Why do you use the words and works and experiences of carnal men to stand in judgment? God spoke His Word! When did He do that?

Do you really claim to have the mind of God in everything? Does He need you to stand in judgment against others on His behalf? Did you have a personal revelation from God to that effect?

Some things that are very good are called evil and vice versa. Is not that also true?

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

What is good and very good?

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

 

[amadeus]

That command was to Hosea only, to symbolize how God will respond/relate to Israel playing the harlot.

A major point for you and me and @Willie T was for us to listen to God first. Remember what Paul wrote?

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

But His sheep hear and obey His voice, do they not? Are we not His sheep as well as Bible readers?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

Hosea heard His voice and followed Him.
If we read the Bible like heathens without hearing and paying attention to His voice we will miss His instructions to us.

 

[Enow]

And of course God, Himself would never have any person laugh nor would He Himself engage in laughing at people, would He? LOL

Would God have anybody have a medium to contact the Holy Spirit? Would God have seekers have the medium prove this contact by a sign even if for laughter? If God would not have you use a medium that uses the rudiment of the would to contact the Holy Spirit for laughter, then why would God have any believer use that methodology for themselves?

 

[Enow]

What does Khundalini have to do with what God is doing? Why do you use the words and works and experiences of carnal men to stand in judgment? God spoke His Word! When did He do that?

Do you really claim to have the mind of God in everything? Does He need you to stand in judgment against others on His behalf? Did you have a personal revelation from God to that effect?

Some things that are very good are called evil and vice versa. Is not that also true?

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

What is good and very good?

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

Problem here is, if you had watched that video of khundalini in the OP having all those things BEFORE Pentecost, wouldn't that be calling those things in khundalini which was evil, "good" just because it is in Christianity?

 

[Enow]

A major point for you and me and @Willie T was for us to listen to God first. Remember what Paul wrote?

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

But His sheep hear and obey His voice, do they not? Are we not His sheep as well as Bible readers?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

Hosea heard His voice and followed Him.
If we read the Bible like heathens without hearing and paying attention to His voice we will miss His instructions to us.

Would not listening to God first require us to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, instead of testing the spirits by whether or mot it feels good or wonderful? If we go by the latter, how can anyone discern "seducing" spirits then?

 

[amadeus]

All the more reason why the born again of the Spirit happens only at the time of our salvation at the calling of the gospel so we can avoid giving out another calling to believers and thus avoiding preaching another gospel, another Jesus, or another spirit to receive.

If we His sheep know His voice and follow Him, we will not miss Jesus and follow something false. People do because they either have never received the Holy Ghost or they have subsequently learned to quench the Spirit instead of to listen well and follow carefully!

Normal prayer is praying in your native tongue so by knowing what you had prayed for, you can give the Father thanks in Jesus name for answers to prayers.

I pray in English, German and Spanish regularly along with praying daily in a prayer language which God gave to me more than 40 years ago. God hears me and I hear Him!

Sometimes people really do not know what to pray and pray amiss in their ignorance or even in their pain. Does anyone ever pray like David did for the life of his own child and the child died. That child died in spite of David's heart felt prayers because it was time. Everyone, for whatever reason has a time.