When are we to forgive?

[CharismaticLady]

If someone like Richard Ramirez, a Satanist and serial killer murdered a member of your family, are we commanded to forgive them if they never repent? Seeing as they never repent, will God forgive them? Are we commanded to do what God won't?

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Some say sin is sin, so it doesn't matter if it is a transgression or a trespass, willful or unintentional, they are all the same in the eyes of God. Is that true?

 

[Windmill Charge]

Are we commanded to do what God won't?

We are to be imitators of Jesus, but however one works this out All scripture has to be incorporated in one's view and that includes the unpopular Luke 17 which say if your brother offends you, speak to him, if he repents, forgive him.
All the many verses that say we Must forgive, have to be understood in the light of these verse and the teaching of the it.

How do we deal with an offender who will not or cannot repent.
Our example is Jesus on the cross. He did not forgive his murders but prayed to his Father asking him to forgive them.
We have to do the same. That is we are to pray for the benefit of our offender.
Pray that they will know God's forgiveness, grace and peace, that is not pray a token prayer to to continue to pray for there ultimate good.

 

[Invisibilis]

If someone like Richard Ramirez, a Satanist and serial killer murdered a member of your family, are we commanded to forgive them if they never repent? Seeing as they never repent, will God forgive them? Are we commanded to do what God won't?

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Some say sin is sin, so it doesn't matter if it is a transgression or a trespass, willful or unintentional, they are all the same in the eyes of God. Is that true?

Those who lose the plot, or lose awareness of what is true, are prone to sin, regardless of how subtle or drastic the sin may be. We all can relate to this. To not forgive/accept a sinner is to not forgive/accept oneself as a sinner. Unforgiveness is denying the truth of the matter, that is, sin is fearing the truth. All our fears come from an unreal, dishonest, deceptive source...the 'self' which we are to no longer trust, but trust God instead.

The other truth of the matter is that we are not here for self, but for our inner being, our soul, our original source of truth from God. Our soul is the truth, and as it is, is incapable of sinning. So what sins is the false-self, our unreal self. So in effect, sin is unreal. However, we believe it to be real and that belief is the real sin which neglects the soul _ our purpose for being here.

Forgiving a sinner is the way to stay aware of who we are and why we are here. If we don't forgive the sinner, we remain as a lost soul, we remain in sin.

 

[Pisteuo]

Those who lose the plot, or lose awareness of what is true, are prone to sin, regardless of how subtle or drastic the sin may be. We all can relate to this. To not forgive/accept a sinner is to not forgive/accept oneself as a sinner. Unforgiveness is denying the truth of the matter, that is, sin is fearing the truth. All our fears come from an unreal, dishonest, deceptive source...the 'self' which we are to no longer trust, but trust God instead.

The other truth of the matter is that we are not here for self, but for our inner being, our soul, our original source of truth from God. Our soul is the truth, and as it is, is incapable of sinning. So what sins is the false-self, our unreal self. So in effect, sin is unreal. However, we believe it to be real and that belief is the real sin which neglects the soul _ our purpose for being here.

Forgiving a sinner is the way to stay aware of who we are and why we are here. If we don't forgive the sinner, we remain as a lost soul, we remain in sin.

Amen. Well written.
In this same light we see that those who sin against are being deceived and not their true self as well. Forgiving them is easy. After all most of us were deceived at some point in life.

 

[marks]

If someone like Richard Ramirez, a Satanist and serial killer murdered a member of your family, are we commanded to forgive them if they never repent? Seeing as they never repent, will God forgive them? Are we commanded to do what God won't?

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Some say sin is sin, so it doesn't matter if it is a transgression or a trespass, willful or unintentional, they are all the same in the eyes of God. Is that true?

Hi CL,

Curious, what is your take on this passage?

Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If someone like Richard Ramirez, a Satanist and serial killer murdered a member of your family, are we commanded to forgive them if they never repent? Seeing as they never repent, will God forgive them? Are we commanded to do what God won't?

What of Matthew 5:43-48 then ...is it a space filler, or now become void? “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi CL,

Curious, what is your take on this passage?

Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Much love!

For what you underlined, there is always a condition that must be met. I don't believe in Universalism.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What of Matthew 5:43-48 then ...is it a space filler, or now become void? “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Is there a difference between loving someone and forgiving someone?

 

[marks]

For what you underlined, there is always a condition that must be met. I don't believe in Universalism.

Neither do I.

I believe God reconciled the world to Himself, and now wants us to be reconciled to Him.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them.

I think all sins are forgiven us, but we need to receive that forgiveness.

For our forgiving others, I think we are to do it even as God forgave us, reconciling us to Himself even while we were His enemies.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Only one person took the poll (thank you to that one). Is there not enough options?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Is there a difference between loving someone and forgiving someone?

yeah maybe. Can you love an “enemy” and want to see the body of sins destroyed and removed, that they may live. Consider Paul’s put him outside (without)the body for the destruction of the flesh, that his life may be saved. It is not passive, as in do whatever you want to His children (imo).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Only one person took the poll (thank you to that one). Is there not enough options?

haven't voted as it says “have to” as if we have the power apart from John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Instead, should there Not be evidence of the fruit of the Spirit?
1 Corinthians 4:19-20 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Is there a difference between loving someone and forgiving someone?

What does (Matthew 5:43-48) say to you, what do you glean from it?

 

[CharismaticLady]

haven't voted as it says “have to” as if we have the power apart from John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Instead, should there Not be evidence of the fruit of the Spirit?
1 Corinthians 4:19-20 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

"Have to" means commandment of God.