Why do we need priests?

[Philip James]

Hello G,

I won't object if you have another take on it, but it looks connected to the Eucharist to me and to 1 Corinthians 11:29 where Paul says some do not discern the Lord's body.

I hadnt considered that passage like that until now, makes sense to me..

Compare with Heb 10:19-20
Which I have always thought a clear reference to the Eucharist:

Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary
by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh,

I do hope however that you believe partaking of the Eucharist "really" changes people too. In my book, changing people is what it's about. Some may think the transformation of the bread and wine into the Spiritual Body and Blood is a miracle; but I think a bigger miracle can occur to those who believe and partake worthily.

Yes I do believe that it really changes people when they partake worthily. It is the very spiritual food that we need to grow in the likeness of Christ.


Here's another verse by Paul that I think is Eucharistic:

1Cor 4:1

Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God


I dont think it would be wrong to read that as 'ministers of the Divine Mysteries' which anyone who knows the Catholic Faith, would immediately recognize as the celebration of the Eucharist.

Peace be with you!

 

[Marymog]

Wrong. The reformation began with Martin Luther's 95 theses. he lived from 1483 - 1546 so that it means it is approx 500 years old not 2,000.

Hi Marksman,

You should read Scripture and your own Christian history. That "mumbo jumbo" (wine into blood) that we are debating has been taught for 2,000 years.

Jesus instituted it at the last supper.

SEVERAL years later Paul re-affirmed it in 1 Corinthians 10:16.

Around 50-80 AD the Christians who wrote The Didache called communion (bread/wine) SACRED.

In 110 AD Ignatius of Antioch, who according to Christian history was a student of the Apostle John, re-affirmed it.

That covers the first 80 years of Christianity. Based on those facts it is clear that your theory (or lack of knowledge) that "it is approx 500 years old" is simply not true.

Thank you for your time....Bible study and historical Mary

 

[Marymog]

So the Holy Spirit turned the wafer into the physical body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ. If that is the case, why is it that it never happened once when I was involved in the eucharist?

Yes, the Holy Spirit turned the wafer into the physical body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ just like He said it did when He said "This IS my body/blood" of which Paul re-affirmed in 1 Corinthians.

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

 

[Giuliano]

Hello G,


I hadnt considered that passage like that until now, makes sense to me..

Compare with Heb 10:19-20
Which I have always thought a clear reference to the Eucharist:

Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary
by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh,



Yes I do believe that it really changes people when they partake worthily. It is the very spiritual food that we need to grow in the likeness of Christ.


Here's another verse by Paul that I think is Eucharistic:

1Cor 4:1

Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God


I dont think it would be wrong to read that as 'ministers of the Divine Mysteries' which anyone who knows the Catholic Faith, would immediately recognize as the celebration of the Eucharist.

Peace be with you!

I had never given that verse much thought; but I think you're right after I looked at it. It may also help explain why some people reject the idea of a real change. If people want to think they understand things using logic and their physical senses, they're apt to reject those things which are beyond their understanding.

 

[marksman]

Yes, the Holy Spirit turned the wafer into the physical body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ just like He said it did when He said "This IS my body/blood" of which Paul re-affirmed in 1 Corinthians.

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

Am I stupid or something? I said when I drank the wine and ate the wafer HE DID NOT turn the wafer into the physical body of Christ or the wine into the blood of Christ.

 

[marksman]

Hi Marksman,

You should read Scripture and your own Christian history. That "mumbo jumbo" (wine into blood) that we are debating has been taught for 2,000 years.

Jesus instituted it at the last supper.

SEVERAL years later Paul re-affirmed it in 1 Corinthians 10:16.

Around 50-80 AD the Christians who wrote The Didache called communion (bread/wine) SACRED.

In 110 AD Ignatius of Antioch, who according to Christian history was a student of the Apostle John, re-affirmed it.

That covers the first 80 years of Christianity. Based on those facts it is clear that your theory (or lack of knowledge) that "it is approx 500 years old" is simply not true.

Thank you for your time....Bible study and historical Mary

You forget one thing. We were talking about the reformation, not all the other stuff. I guess that we will have to accept that obfuscation is your specialty.

 

[marksman]

Soooooo, when I catch you in a lie - I'm "arrogant".
BUT, if I stay silent and let you get away with lying - then I'm just another "dumb Catholic."

If exposing your lies is "arrogance" - then I'm guilty as charged . . .

I have not lied once. It is a figment of your imagination and your ability to obfuscate.

 

[marksman]

I have challenged YOU and ALL of your fellow anti-Catholics to prove me wrong.
So far - you have failed.

That's not MY fault.

We have but being as obtuse as you are, you have the mendacity to try and avoid the truth.

 

[marksman]

You have nothing to say, not really. It looks to me as if you are here to vex Catholics. Time to put you on ignore.

Now that is very interesting. I have got the impression that this site has primarily been the focus of evangelicals and the Catholics here are here to vex evangelicals and be very mendacious.

 

[Marymog]

Am I stupid or something? I said when I drank the wine and ate the wafer HE DID NOT turn the wafer into the physical body of Christ or the wine into the blood of Christ.

If it did not happen perhaps you are attending the wrong church. Paul (and the earliest historical Christian writings we have) says Christians do participate in His body and blood when we take communion (1 Corinthians 10:16). Sooooo if it happened for them, why does it not happen for you?
Is your faith not as strong as theirs?

 

[Marymog]

You forget one thing. We were talking about the reformation, not all the other stuff. I guess that we will have to accept that obfuscation is your specialty.

Correct....we were talking about how it did NOT start with the Reformation like you believe it did when you said "it is approx 500 years old not 2,000."

You were WRONG and now you can't admit it. Soooo not sure what you mean about "obfuscation is your specialty"???

 

[marksman]

Correct....we were talking about how it did NOT start with the Reformation like you believe it did when you said "it is approx 500 years old not 2,000."

You were WRONG and now you can't admit it. Soooo not sure what you mean about "obfuscation is your specialty"???

Correct...I was talking about how it did start with the Reformation like I believe it did when I said: "it is approx 500 years old not 2,000."

 

[marksman]

If it did not happen perhaps you are attending the wrong church. Paul (and the earliest historical Christian writings we have) says Christians do participate in His body and blood when we take communion (1 Corinthians 10:16). Sooooo if it happened for them, why does it not happen for you?
Is your faith not as strong as theirs?

Apart from your last sentence being offensive, every time I took communion, I was in a catholic church so they must be the wrong church.

 

[XRose]

If it did not happen perhaps you are attending the wrong church. Paul (and the earliest historical Christian writings we have) says Christians do participate in His body and blood when we take communion (1 Corinthians 10:16). Sooooo if it happened for them, why does it not happen for you?
Is your faith not as strong as theirs?

Only a fool woudl believe the bread and wine turn into Jeuss's flesh and his blood when eating human flesh and blood is banned.
The bread and wine of Jesus were simple bread and wine and stayed so even after he blessed it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So the Holy Spirit turned the wafer into the physical body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ. If that is the case, why is it that it never happened once when I was involved in the eucharist?

280 people were burned at the stake during the reign of Bloody Mary, Roman Catholic queen of English, for merely asking the same question!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Am I stupid or something? I said when I drank the wine and ate the wafer HE DID NOT turn the wafer into the physical body of Christ or the wine into the blood of Christ.

During the reign of the English Roman Catholic queen Mary, you would have been burned at the stake for saying that! Aren't you relieved that the Roman Catholic church is not dominant over the laws in your country?

 

[Paul Christensen]

If it did not happen perhaps you are attending the wrong church. Paul (and the earliest historical Christian writings we have) says Christians do participate in His body and blood when we take communion (1 Corinthians 10:16). Sooooo if it happened for them, why does it not happen for you?
Is your faith not as strong as theirs?

Maybe he doesn't believe in fairy stories.

 

[marksman]

During the reign of the English Roman Catholic queen Mary, you would have been burned at the stake for saying that! Aren't you relieved that the Roman Catholic church is not dominant over the laws in your country?

Yes definitely. If it was I would be toast (pun intended).

 

[marksman]

280 people were burned at the stake during the reign of Bloody Mary, Roman Catholic queen of English, for merely asking the same question!

All I can say then is that bloody Mary was bloody useless. Where can I go to confession to confess my sin of....

 

[marksman]

Only a fool woudl believe the bread and wine turn into Jeuss's flesh and his blood when eating human flesh and blood is banned.
The bread and wine of Jesus were simple bread and wine and stayed so even after he blessed it.

Even if it was true it would mean that they would need a gigantic miracle to produce enough flesh and blood to feed the millions every Sunday who are supposed to be the recipients of this.