Why do we need priests?

[marksman]

Christ says that we must submit to His CHURCH as our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).
So YOU are disobeying Him.

Oh, and by the way - NONE of your Protestant sects were even around until the 16th century, whereas the Catholic Church has been here since the FIRST century.

That is right. Submit to HIS church. Not the roman catholic church which is patently not his church.

There was no division of any kind in the New Testament Church. They were all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Maybe if we don't need priests, we should act as priests to others?

No. We as priests have direct access to God and don't need a mediator between us and God. If we acted as priests to others are we not coming in between them and God? Who do we think we are that we can be an intermediary between another person and God, when the Scripture says to every believer, "Come boldly to the throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need"?

 

[Paul Christensen]

@Philip James is right E...and I've been through this with you myself.

You can believe what you want to, but a knowledgeable Catholic knows more about his faith than you can....

The sacrifice of the Mass does NOT RESACRIFICE JESUS.
It's a memorial...it brings us to the foot of the cross.

Who knows more? Me, you, or a few PRIESTS that actually celebrate the Mass?

The CCC, BTW, is one of the most confusing teaching tools ever.
Some of it is easy to understand, and some is very vague and misleading.

I have a question: Why are Catholic clergy called "priests"?

Here is the dictionary definition:

Definition of priest

: one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion especially as a mediatory agent between humans and God

The word in bold is my emphasis. How come Catholic believers require a mediatory agent between them and God, when the Scripture says that there is no mediator between God and man except Jesus Christ?

How come the New Testament does not refer to ministers of the gospel and church elders as "priests"?

And at what stage of church history did "the presbytery" be transformed from church elders, to church priests? And when was there a separate "clergy" instituted in the christian church, seeing there were none in the early years of the church?

And when did church meetings changed from every member having a psalm, a hymn, a word, a prophecy, or a revelation to contribute to the meeting, to one man at the front behind an ornate altar acting as a priest/mediator between the people and God, and the members sitting like wooden statues just observing the ritualistic performance at the front? I thought that was how the pagan priests used to officiate in the pagan temples...

 

[Philip James]

Where do YOU get his blood and flesh from? Note YOU???

Im sorry, was that not clear enough? Well maybe this will help:


The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.


The Eucharist is the One bread and yhe One cup that Jesus gave to us.

Peace be with you!

 

[mjrhealth]

No wed dont need priests, we have Jesus, we have Gods Spirit in whom we all have acess to God, but religion will do its darndest to keep you as slaves to itself, so you choose whom do you serve Christ or religion. We know th enaswer for many.

 

[Giuliano]

No. We as priests have direct access to God and don't need a mediator between us and God. If we acted as priests to others are we not coming in between them and God? Who do we think we are that we can be an intermediary between another person and God, when the Scripture says to every believer, "Come boldly to the throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need"?

Your idea doesn't make sense. Priests are mediators, just as kings are rulers. Would you also say that everyone is already a king?

Revelation 20: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I guess that means we need not worry about anyone else. Why did the Apostles bother to preach the Gospel? Why did Paul bother to write his letters?

If the prayers of everyone are equal, why did James indicate otherwise? Why we should pray for anyone else? Can't other people pray for themselves?

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

It should be obvious that not everyone has the same access to the throne of grace. If acting as an intermediary for others is wrong, why would Jesus do it for us? Wouldn't he have said, "I shouldn't come between other people and the Father." You miss the point. When I intercede for someone, it is my hope that some day he won't need my prayers anymore, that some day he'll be able to bear his own burden.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Your idea doesn't make sense. Priests are mediators, just as kings are rulers. Would you also say that everyone is already a king?

Revelation 20: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I guess that means we need not worry about anyone else. Why did the Apostles bother to preach the Gospel? Why did Paul bother to write his letters?

If the prayers of everyone are equal, why did James indicate otherwise? Why we should pray for anyone else? Can't other people pray for themselves?

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

It should be obvious that not everyone has the same access to the throne of grace. If acting as an intermediary for others is wrong, why would Jesus do it for us? Wouldn't he have said, "I shouldn't come between other people and the Father." You miss the point. When I intercede for someone, it is my hope that some day he won't need my prayers anymore, that some day he'll be able to bear his own burden.

How is that consistent with the Scripture that says there is no other mediator between God and man except Jesus Christ?

 

[Giuliano]

How is that consistent with the Scripture that says there is no other mediator between God and man except Jesus Christ?

Does everyone have access to Jesus? Paul starts off asking his readers to intercede for others. I would say people with access to Jesus are supposed to intercede for those who don't.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If it is not a true statement, why did you say it?

I didn't - YOU did.

YOUR comment from post #782:

Wrong again. A good teacher will ALWAYS teach in such a fashion that the student knows what you want them to know.

You wanna be dishonest?
Do it somewhere else . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is right. Submit to HIS church. Not the roman catholic church which is patently not his church.
There was no division of any kind in the New Testament Church. They were all one in Christ Jesus.

And there is no division in Christ's Catholic Church.
It is monolithic.

There IS division, however, in Protestantism - to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have the "truth".

What a mess . . .

 

[Paul Christensen]

Does everyone have access to Jesus? Paul starts off asking his readers to intercede for others. I would say people with access to Jesus are supposed to intercede for those who don't.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

So, the promise to come boldly to God's throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need is not available to all who choose to believe the gospel? And where John says that our fellowship is with God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ is only for selected believers only - and if so, who does the selecting? If Jesus is the only Mediator, and He is the one who intercedes for the saints to the Father, who among us as special qualifications to take His place?

I would have thought that praying for others is not representing them before Jesus, but more with the principle of two agreeing on an issue in terms of supporting a brother or sister in Christ through prayer. When I pray for a person I never stand in front of them laying my hand on their head because I would feel that I would be getting in the way between them and the Lord. I stand beside them with my hand on their shoulder and come before the Lord as one of two brothers making a joint request for what the brother needs.

No one has to come through me to access the Lord. That assumes that I am the one who has the Holy Spirit and the other person hasn't, so they have to come to the Lord through the Holy Spirit in me. But the problem is, that if one does not have the Holy Spirit, he or she is not saved (I am not talking about the "Pentecostal" baptism with the Spirit here. I am reflecting was Paul says in Galatians about one receiving the Holy Spirit at conversion to Christ).

The bottom line is: I am not Jesus or the Holy Spirit for another person, that I should replace them for their access to the Father. The Scriptures says that every believer is a king and a priest to God, and this means free access to God's throne without having to have anyone mediate for them.

Therefore bearing another up in prayer is not mediation, but spiritual support - adding my prayer to his that God would meet his need according to His riches in glory.

I would be arrogant to think that I am better than Jesus to mediate between another person and the Father.

 

[Giuliano]

So, the promise to come boldly to God's throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need is not available to all who choose to believe the gospel? And where John says that our fellowship is with God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ is only for selected believers only - and if so, who does the selecting? If Jesus is the only Mediator, and He is the one who intercedes for the saints to the Father, who among us as special qualifications to take His place?

I would have thought that praying for others is not representing them before Jesus, but more with the principle of two agreeing on an issue in terms of supporting a brother or sister in Christ through prayer. When I pray for a person I never stand in front of them laying my hand on their head because I would feel that I would be getting in the way between them and the Lord. I stand beside them with my hand on their shoulder and come before the Lord as one of two brothers making a joint request for what the brother needs.

No one has to come through me to access the Lord. That assumes that I am the one who has the Holy Spirit and the other person hasn't, so they have to come to the Lord through the Holy Spirit in me. But the problem is, that if one does not have the Holy Spirit, he or she is not saved (I am not talking about the "Pentecostal" baptism with the Spirit here. I am reflecting was Paul says in Galatians about one receiving the Holy Spirit at conversion to Christ).

The bottom line is: I am not Jesus or the Holy Spirit for another person, that I should replace them for their access to the Father. The Scriptures says that every believer is a king and a priest to God, and this means free access to God's throne without having to have anyone mediate for them.

Therefore bearing another up in prayer is not mediation, but spiritual support - adding my prayer to his that God would meet his need according to His riches in glory.

I would be arrogant to think that I am better than Jesus to mediate between another person and the Father.

It took me years to mature spiritually; and for the record, I still do not consider myself equal to the Apostles as described in Acts. I also cannot read Acts and derive the idea that every believer is equal.

Who is the Christian a priest for? Who does he rule over as a king?

 

[Paul Christensen]

It took me years to mature spiritually; and for the record, I still do not consider myself equal to the Apostles as described in Acts. I also cannot read Acts and derive the idea that every believer is equal.

Who is the Christian a priest for? Who does he rule over as a king?

1. Who is born again better than anyone else? Is the Scripture true that says that God is no respecter of persons? I look up at those who a better or more holy than me, and I get a pain in the neck!

2. The Christian is his own priest to come before God and make his own requests. This was not available to OT believers. They could not approach God directly, therefore they needed a priest to mediate between them and God. But after the Temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, it signalled that the Levitical priesthood was abolished and that all Christian believers can make their own approach to God through Christ, who is our high priest, mediating between us and the Father. That is consistent with the Scripture: "No one can come to the Father except by Me [Jesus]." Therefore, anyone taking the position of mediator between anyone and God is usurping the place of Jesus as the only mediator between God and man.

We have certain believers thinking they can make their requests to Mary, who as His mother, passes our requests on to Jesus in the hope that Jesus will listen to her more readily than them. Such people are actually in fantasy land, and any teaching about that is straight fraud and deception.

 

[Giuliano]

1. Who is born again better than anyone else? Is the Scripture true that says that God is no respecter of persons? I look up at those who a better or more holy than me, and I get a pain in the neck!

Perhaps you have too high opinion of yourself? People with too high an opinion of themselves do not make good priests or kings.

2. The Christian is his own priest to come before God and make his own requests. This was not available to OT believers. They could not approach God directly, therefore they needed a priest to mediate between them and God. But after the Temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, it signalled that the Levitical priesthood was abolished and that all Christian believers can make their own approach to God through Christ, who is our high priest, mediating between us and the Father. That is consistent with the Scripture: "No one can come to the Father except by Me [Jesus]." Therefore, anyone taking the position of mediator between anyone and God is usurping the place of Jesus as the only mediator between God and man.

Make up your mind. First you say no one needs anyone to act as a priest between him and God. Next you say Christians must come through Jesus who acts as High Priest. Which is it?

I assure you that I pray for some sinners and I do not feel as if I'm usurping the place of Jesus. On the contrary, my hope is that they come to know Jesus. If they do, they no longer need my prayers so much.

We have certain believers thinking they can make their requests to Mary, who as His mother, passes our requests on to Jesus in the hope that Jesus will listen to her more readily than them. Such people are actually in fantasy land, and any teaching about that is straight fraud and deception.

As if you know from experience. I think I can speak from experience. I consider Mary a friend and would say she's done favors for me, just as she did for the people at Cana. I guess you would consider me delusional. My impression is that Jesus loves her and likes to do favors for her when she asks. She also likes to do favors for people. If you want to think your spiritual standing is equal to hers, I guess you can believe that.[/quote]

 

[marksman]

And there is no division in Christ's Catholic Church.
It is monolithic.

There IS division, however, in Protestantism - to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have the "truth".

What a mess . . .

We will find that out at the second coming of Christ, won't we? Stories have it that the Catholics will have a special house in heaven just for Catholics because they think they are the only ones there.

 

[marksman]

I didn't - YOU did.

YOUR comment from post #782:


You wanna be dishonest?
Do it somewhere else . . .

I didn't you did.

 

[marksman]

Im sorry, was that not clear enough? Well maybe this will help:


The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.


The Eucharist is the One bread and yhe One cup that Jesus gave to us.

Peace be with you!

And where do you get the body and blood of Jesus from? I have noticed that when Catholics are cornered and can't answer the question they obfuscate like hell.

 

[Dcopymope]

Why do we need priests?

Short answer......we don't, because Jesus is our high priest. For anyone looking at scripture with a bit of honesty, without any theological, personal biases, this shouldn't even be an argument. So I guess this subject rages on because people are just bored and want someone else to socialize with and vent their anger, at least, that's what I'm hoping, however hopeless this assumption may be.

 

[marksman]

I have a question: Why are Catholic clergy called "priests"?

Here is the dictionary definition:

Definition of priest

: one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion especially as a mediatory agent between humans and God

The word in bold is my emphasis. How come Catholic believers require a mediatory agent between them and God, when the Scripture says that there is no mediator between God and man except Jesus Christ?

How come the New Testament does not refer to ministers of the gospel and church elders as "priests"?

And at what stage of church history did "the presbytery" be transformed from church elders, to church priests? And when was there a separate "clergy" instituted in the christian church, seeing there were none in the early years of the church?

And when did church meetings changed from every member having a psalm, a hymn, a word, a prophecy, or a revelation to contribute to the meeting, to one man at the front behind an ornate altar acting as a priest/mediator between the people and God, and the members sitting like wooden statues just observing the ritualistic performance at the front? I thought that was how the pagan priests used to officiate in the pagan temples...

100% correct and I can't wait for our catholic posters to reply with their standard obfuscation of the facts.

 

[Philip James]

And where do you get the body and blood of Jesus from? I have noticed that when Catholics are cornered and can't answer the question they obfuscate like hell.

Obfuscate? I have been quite clear that I am referring to the Eucharist. When we celebrate the Eucharist we receive that One Cup of Salvation, that One Bread of Life; that Jesus gave to the apostles.
That One Cup and One Bread continues to be shared and passed on from generation to generation..

Here's a little from St Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch circa 100 AD talking about it:

Let no man be deceived. If any one be not within
the precinct of the altar, he lacketh the bread [of
God]. For, if the prayer of one and another hath so
great force, how much more that of the bishop and of
the whole Church.
Whosoever therefore cometh not to the
congregation, he doth thereby show his pride and hath
separated himself; for it is written, _God resisteth
the proud._ Let us therefore be careful not to resist
the bishop, that by our submission we may give
ourselves to God.

Peace!