Why do we need priests?

[Paul Christensen]

Hebrews 4:16 has NOTHING to do with confessing sins to God or confession of sins.
Where does scripture say "really personal sins should be confessed to God only"???

Patient Mary

I am rather sensitive to people confessing their personal sins in counselling sessions. I was once in a church run by a board of elders who also acted as counsellors and "confessors". People would share their personal stuff with them, and these elders would go home and share these things with their wives, who then would share them in the ladies' prayer meeting.

Just think of the shame and embarrassment for a young guy sharing a personal issue with his counsellor and then hearing that the ladies in the church prayer meeting praying that "our brother Herman would get victory over his masturbation problem!"

This type of thing was happening in that church, and I decided never to share my personal issues with anyone except God and not have confidence in any man, including a priest. And I think that it is very dangerous for a woman to share her personal stuff with an unmarried, celibate priest. He is a red-blooded male like everyone else prone to temptation, and you'd be surprised at how many priests have fallen into adultery and fornication because of it.

 

[Marymog]

As I asked before - how could the bread be Jesus' own body when He was there with them in the flesh? He had to be speaking symbolically - a metaphor.

Do you not believe in miracles?

Curious Mary

 

[Pearl]

As I asked before - how could the bread be Jesus' own body when He was there with them in the flesh? He had to be speaking symbolically - a metaphor.

I can say that someone I don't like is "a dirty dog", but that doesn't mean that he is a real dog. I am just stating metaphorically. That's what Jesus did on both occasions.

He could have used a simile and said that as He took the piece of bread, "This is like my body", but He wanted to give more emphasis to the symbolism.

Jesus also said he was the Vine.

 

[Marymog]

As I asked before - how could the bread be Jesus' own body when He was there with them in the flesh? He had to be speaking symbolically - a metaphor.

Sooooo Jesus when Jesus said This IS my body and he said you must eat my body.....He was lying???

 

[Marymog]

Just think of the shame and embarrassment for a young guy sharing a personal issue.....

The early Church did "think of the shame and embarrassment". That is why The Church changed the practice of confessing your sins during church service to confessing in private to a priest.

Historical Mary

 

[Paul Christensen]

No, It does NOT make any sense to compare mans criminal law to Gods law.

A man can be found guilty of murder and be sentenced to physical death BY MAN. By the grace and forgiveness of God, of which Scripture says their is both, he can be forgiven and still go to heaven.

You need to work on your theory.

Mary

So, if a human judge is not going to let a criminal get away with his crimes, do you think that God's justice is any less strict when sinners have broken His law? Do you think He is kidding when He says, "The soul who sins shall surely die"?

If anything, God's justice is much more strict, because He hates sin, and at the judgment He will not excuse even the most minor violation of any of His Commandments.

Look at this Scripture:
"But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
"Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die" (Ezekiel 18:24-26).

So, we can't get it any more clear than that!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Thank you.

So you just PRETEND you are eating His flesh and drinking His blood when you "participate in the lord's supper at church"?

Curious Mary

No. I remember His death until He comes. When I eat the bread and drink the wine, I do it symbolically.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Do you not believe in miracles?

Curious Mary

Yes I do, but not pagan magic.

 

[Marymog]

So, if a human judge is not going to let a criminal get away with his crimes, do you think that God's justice is any less strict when sinners have broken His law? Do you think He is kidding when He says, "The soul who sins shall surely die"?

Hi Paul,

How does your theory square with John 20:23 ??

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jesus also said he was the Vine.

Correct. He didn't have bunches of grapes hanging off him!

 

[Marymog]

Yes I do, but not pagan magic.

Soooo you believe Jesus was practicing "pagan magic" when he said "This IS my body/blood...."???

 

[Marymog]

Yes I do, but not pagan magic.

Jesus said, He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

How are we to eat his flesh and drink his blood without using "pagan magic"???

Curious Mary

 

[Paul Christensen]

Sooooo Jesus when Jesus said This IS my body and he said you must eat my body.....He was lying???

I have already explained what He was doing, but you won't accept it because it is so ingrained in your foundation of belief and if you stopped believing in transubstantiation you would feel that you were sinning against God and dishonouring Christ. I understand that.

 

[Marymog]

No. I remember His death until He comes. When I eat the bread and drink the wine, I do it symbolically.

Thank you.

Jesus said it IS his body....You say it's a symbol.

Jesus said He that eats my flesh dwelleth in me, and I in him.....You say as long as I pretend I am eating His flesh he will dwell in me.

Did you know that what you believe/practice started with the Reformation? For the first 1,500 years of Christianity what you believe was considered heresy?

Curious Mary

 

[Paul Christensen]

Soooo you believe Jesus was practicing "pagan magic" when he said "This IS my body/blood...."???

I have already explained. I don't believe in the false doctrine of transubstantiation and I never will, so there won't be any use going any further than that rabbit hole. Thank goodness that I am not living in the time of the English Catholic "Bloody Mary" queen (no reference to you, by the way), who murdered 280 Christian believers who said the same thing I am saying about transubstatiation.

 

[Dcopymope]

Hi,

At the Last Supper Jesus said to his Apostles "This IS my body..." when he gave them the bread. Was Jesus lying to them?

Before He said that at the Last Supper he said MULTIPLE times in John 6 that we must eat his body. Some of the disciples walked away when He said that. Have you walked away also? How do you fulfill John 6:53-56?

Curious Mary

Well Jesus was clearly referring to the bread they ate as being symbolic of his flesh, but for some reason you apparently believe he literally peeled off pieces of his skin and gave it to his disciples, is that right? Assuming this is true, what exactly would he achieve in this? Have you consumed his flesh? The weirdness that people believe never ceases to amaze me in Christianity.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Thank you.

Jesus said it IS his body....You say it's a symbol.

Jesus said He that eats my flesh dwelleth in me, and I in him.....You say as long as I pretend I am eating His flesh he will dwell in me.

Did you know that what you believe/practice started with the Reformation? For the first 1,500 years of Christianity what you believe was considered heresy?

Curious Mary

Some English Reformers had a different belief about transubstantiation, and 280 were burned at the stake by Queen Mary - including a pregnant woman who gave birth while at the stake, the baby being rescued from the flames. The Catholic bishop who was there got the new born baby and threw it back into the flames. I guess the baby didn't believe in transubstantiation either.

 

[Marymog]

I have already explained. I don't believe in the false doctrine of transubstantiation and I never will, so there won't be any use going any further than that rabbit hole. Thank goodness that I am not living in the time of the English Catholic "Bloody Mary" queen (no reference to you, by the way), who murdered 280 Christian believers who said the same thing I am saying about transubstatiation.

Finally, it came out. Your anti-Catholic bias. ;)

Did you know that Protestant's killed thousands of Catholics and their fellow Protestants during that same time in history??? So your argument is awash and we can now move on...Right?

You have taken it down a rabbit hole by bringing up transubstantiation. I have asked the same thing over and over again. I am not asking you if you believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation or asking you if you believe what many Christian Churches believe......I am asking you if you believe what Jesus said to his Apostles at the Last Supper...... "This IS my body...".

Do you believe He was telling his apostles the Truth when He said to them This "IS" his body?

Patient Mary

 

[Dcopymope]

Finally, it came out. Your anti-Catholic bias. ;)

Did you know that Protestant's killed thousands of Catholics and their fellow Protestants during that same time in history??? So your argument is awash and we can now move on...Right?

You have taken it down a rabbit hole by bringing up transubstantiation. I have asked the same thing over and over again. I am not asking you if you believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation or asking you if you believe what many Christian Churches believe......I am asking you if you believe what Jesus said to his Apostles at the Last Supper...... "This IS my body...".

Do you believe He was telling his apostles the Truth when He said to them This "IS" his body?

Patient Mary

So you believe the bread was pieces of his body? :

 

[Paul Christensen]

Finally, it came out. Your anti-Catholic bias. ;)

Did you know that Protestant's killed thousands of Catholics and their fellow Protestants during that same time in history??? So your argument is awash and we can now move on...Right?

You have taken it down a rabbit hole by bringing up transubstantiation. I have asked the same thing over and over again. I am not asking you if you believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation or asking you if you believe what many Christian Churches believe......I am asking you if you believe what Jesus said to his Apostles at the Last Supper...... "This IS my body...".

Do you believe He was telling his apostles the Truth when He said to them This "IS" his body?

Patient Mary

If you have read my previous posts you will know that I am not anti-Catholic because I am married to one.

I am anti-false doctrine which has caused the murder of countless innocent Christian believers. If a Catholic person says they are converted to Christ then I believe them, because according to their faith be it for them. I might think that their heads a somewhat off course, but only God knows their hearts, so I give them the benefit of the doubt.

So it is not that Queen Mary was a Catholic, but that she was a murderer and will be judged guilty in the Judgment and, like all unrepentant murderers will be consigned to the lake of fire without the possibility of parole.

So, because I don't believe in the idolatry of prayers to the Virgin Mary, popery, priestcraft, fancy hats and robes, the pagan Mass, the authority of the Church, and confession to priests, doesn't mean that I am anti-Catholics, or even against the Catholic church itself. it is just that I believe that the doctrines I have mentioned are doctrines that are not found in the Bible, and if they ain't in the Bible, then the ain't true.

Just because I say to my wife when she abuses a character on a soap opera, "St Pius wouldn't like that!" it doesn't mean that I am demeaning her, even though I might be poking fun at her religion!