Romans 7 and 8 without confusing verses

[DNB]

See in the New Testament who overcame that , who has the victory, who is NOT losing the battle against it.

One key to truth is we must keep seeking the truth, and not give up , ever.
Also, the Father Himself must reveal truth to us, or we do not know it.

Most people do lose. Most people are sons of disobedience. Yes, that is written, so it is truth.

But in Scripture, if the Father is Willing, and from the Father, a few learn the truth, and are set free.

Overcoming "by the word of our testimony and the blood of the Lamb" . Simple, True, As Written, in Perfect Harmony with all Scripture and all of God's Plan and all of God's Purpose.

Are we talking about the same thing here? You haven't overcome sin Joseph. Only Christ has. And, those who believe in him have only vicariously and intangibly done so, not in practicality, or actuality. Like I said, anyone who claims to be without sin in practice, is the worst of them all, and makes God out to be a liar...

1 John 1:10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

 

[DNB]

You better read Romans 8:2 again. He said that being in the Spirit he is free from sin.

You need to take a look at yourself again, then read your Bible, then decide if you meet God's or Jesus' standard of perfection or righteousness, or somewhere even above the 30% mark.
I don't know you CL, but I am convinced by your over-confidence and naiveté, that you're under the 30% mark of the righteousness that God expects from man, let alone the Christians.

 

[Joseph77]

So you believe it is impossible to not sin? Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.

Try holding a book out at arm's length, all day long.
Even if someone could do that,
they would not be free from sin, yet.
So also, anyone who uses a lot of words to post, sins.
It is written:
"Where there are many words, sin is NOT LACKING"

(yes, this does not exclude me, myself nor I)

 

[Joseph77]

Are we talking about the same thing here? You haven't overcome sin Joseph. Only Christ has.

Try reading the New Testment passages describing what I posted. You don't seem to be posting or talking about the same thing, no.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You need to take a look at yourself again, then read your Bible, then decide if you meet God's or Jesus' standard of perfection or righteousness, or somewhere even above the 30% mark.
I don't know you CL, but I am convinced by your over-confidence and naiveté, that you're under the 30% mark of the righteousness that God expects from man, let alone the Christians.

Before you judge me, ask yourself if all your prayers are answered. Mine are.

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

cc: @Joseph77

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

One problem I see with many who relate themselves to the struggle with sin of Romans 7 is there is a chapter break before they see that Romans 8:2 is freedom from the struggle with sin. They even believe chapter 7 is Paul's constant struggle with sin as an apostle! But there is no struggle when a person has been born again of the Spirit as Paul was. But there was a struggle under the law when he was still in the unborn-again flesh, without the Spirit of Christ in him. Those on the forum who relate so much to the struggle may be in the process of being saved, but haven't completely surrendered unto true repentance in order to receive the infilling Holy Spirit and be saved.

I've taken the liberty to just show a condensed rearranged version of Romans 7 and 8 without the chapter break and the confusing misinterpreted description of the life of struggle under the law. I have not changed wording, just dropped verses and rearranged verses to show the true power of Spirit. I hope this edit of Scripture will help those who have twisted this portion of Scripture to mean a Christian will always struggle with sin, even with the Holy Spirit in them, a total heresy.

Romans 7 and 8 without the struggle of those under the law

12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Paul writes as a Christian in each chapter.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You have either totally MISUNDERSTOOD Romans 7:18-23, or you have DELIBERATELY MISREPRESENTED THAT PASSAGE.

Paul is speaking as a regenerated (born-again) Christian where his "inward man" is his new nature indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And it is on that basis that he says this:

THE OLD NATURE (THE FLESH) HAS NOT BEEN ERADICATED
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

THE FLESH RESISTS THE SPIRIT
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

THE SIN NATURE REMAINS IN THE BELIEVER
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

THE NEW NATURE DELIGHTS IN THE LAW OF GOD
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

THE FLESH WARS AGAINST THE SPIRIT
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul is not giving Christians an excuse to sin, or an excuse to struggle, since the Holy Spirit can overcome the flesh, as long as the believer mortifies (puts to death) the flesh. He is simply presenting the reality of what is within the Christian, and no Christian can claim -- even with the best of intentions -- that he or she is sinlessly perfect. The apostle John makes that perfectly clear.

CharismaticLady, you and a couple of others, are falsely claiming sinless perfection, and deceiving yourselves by making God a liar. So be careful what you post, since you will be held accountable for promoting false doctrine.

You are correct here.
Self righteousness is a horrible sin.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

If that's describing the new nature, give me the old! Statistics of this man from verses 5-24: He uses "I" 28 times; "Law" 21 times; "sin" 16 times; "Me" and "My" 17 times; "Dead" 8 times; "Death" 5 times, AND NOTHING OF CHRIST. When he finds Christ in verse 25, he moves on to 8:1 and finds "no condemnation". When you have nothing but "yourself", the "law", and the end result, "death", you can see why Paul never again glories in himself! In Romans seven Paul is self centered, and in Romans eight he is Christ Centered.

You are clueless here. Wrong theology has brought you to this post.

 

[DNB]

Try reading the New Testment passages describing what I posted. You don't seem to be posting or talking about the same thing, no.

Why don't you try quoting some Scripture so one can look it up.
Your response seems to have nothing to do what I was talking about Joseph. You responded to me, don't forget.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Do you not see the Romans 8:2 is the conclusion of Romans 7-8-23, and that we are free from that struggle? I don't know why you are against sinless perfection when it is Jesus who gave us the power through His Own Spirit.

You and any who agree with this are totally deluded and without understanding on this matter.

 

[DNB]

Before you judge me, ask yourself if all your prayers are answered. Mine are.

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

cc: @Joseph77

I don't believe you at all! And yes, I am entirely judging you, it's called wisdom and insight. When one makes such boasts, it's easy to discern where the intent and delusion are coming from.

 

[Joseph77]

Why don't you try quoting some Scripture so one can look it up.
Your response seems to have nothing to do what I was talking about Joseph. You responded to me, don't forget.

Throughout the New Testament, it is recorded how the Ekklesia lived. (quite different from your posted statement or statements).

I cannot and won't pick out what you might or might not believe in and from God's Word.

If you don't want to know it, you won't (apart from some miracle of grace I guess).

 

[CharismaticLady]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Paul writes as a Christian in each chapter.

It is very clear, read it again.

 

[Joseph77]

I don't believe you at all! And yes, I am entirely judging you, it's called wisdom and insight. When one makes such boasts, it's easy to discern where the intent and delusion are coming from.

If one can find out what school or group taught her what she is posting,
it might, just might, help.

 

[DNB]

Throughout the New Testament, it is recorded how the Ekklesia lived. (quite different from your posted statement or statements).

I cannot and won't pick out what you might or might not believe in and from God's Word.

If you don't want to know it, you won't (apart from some miracle of grace I guess).

Have you ever witnessed in your lifetime, what is recorded in the Bible about those who evidenced the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

 

[CharismaticLady]

You and any who agree with this are totally deluded and without understanding on this matter.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe that because of Jesus all your past, present and future sins are already forgiven, even the ones you did today and will in the future? Are you saved because of that?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You better read Romans 8:2 again. He said that being in the Spirit he is free from sin.

You have no.idea about the basic biblical doctrine of sanctification.
Charismatic teaching gets it wrong everytime.

 

[DNB]

If one can find out what school or group taught her what she is posting,
it might, just might, help.

In order to sympathize with her sentiments, that she has been indoctrinated?

 

[CharismaticLady]

You have no.idea about the basic biblical doctrine of sanctification.
Charismatic teaching gets it wrong everytime.

What's your version?

 

[Dcopymope]

@CharismaticLady

Question: Do you believe that death was brought about by sin?