Romans 7 and 8 without confusing verses

[DNB]

If I was God, I certainly would be offended that a worm claims to have attained my holy image.

That's my whole point!

 

[CharismaticLady]

1 John 1:8-10
1:8. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

It is disappointing that you immediately refer to 1 John 1:8-10 as if somehow it negates chapter three, so you can stay complacent as a "sinner."

Do you see how they contradict chapter 3. But they don't actually. It is apples and oranges. Verse 8 is an unrepentant Christian who is self-righteous. They have never repented, thus the reason for verse 9. And verse 10 is a complete heretic who believes they were born sinless (like the Catholics believe about Mary). I hope you won't apply them to yourself as some kind of justification as those who walk in darkness. That is verse 6 and it goes with 8 and 10. Remember when I was telling you about parallelisms? Power/grace. Well here we have one of the other styles - contrasts. 5-10 is light vs. darkness.

5 - God is light
6 - walk in darkness
7 - walk in light
8 - claim we don't sin (so never need to repent in the first place)
9 - REPENT to become a Christian and have ALL your sins cleansed
10 - claims they have always been sinless, making God a liar who says "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Now please study 1 John 3 and apply it to yourself, instead of believing you will always be a sinner, and think it is somehow humble to admit you are a sinner. NO! Know who you are in Christ! A chile of God! Otherwise, you will never be able to command healing in Jesus name and see a miraculous healing. Nor any other the other promises for His children. 2 Peter 1:2-11

 

[CharismaticLady]

Man is a sinner, and is never regenerated until the inauguration of the New Heaven.

Dear, that is an unscriptural statement. We are NOW either a sinner and a slave to sin, or a child of God and overcomer through the power of the grace of God. NOW!!! For not going to denominational churches, you sure have picked up some of the heresies from the Reformation. Take out the trash and burn it and start clean. I've had to do that too.

That statement may be from the misinterpretation of Romans 8:9-11. Paul uses the word "flesh" twice but meaning two different things. 1. our sinful carnal nature and insticts 2. our physical body of bones and muscle. And he puts 9 next to 10-11 as our nature "not to be confused with" our physical body. It is our nature that is reborn now and made immortal, but our mortal bodies will still die and must put on immortality. In 9 we are not in the sinful carnal nature if we are in the Spirit. In Galatians 5:19-21 fulfilling the lust of the flesh is fulfilling our sinful instincts.

BTW, I wanted to share another Semitic parallelism so you can learn to pick them out for yourself. There will be key words that are the same like in Acts of the Apostles 4:33 the word "great." And what follows power/grace clarify one another. They are the same. Here is another example I found to help you when you study so you can pick them out for yourself.

1 Corinthians 1:
7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These parallelisms will either be in the same verse or connecting verses. Here it shows that the revelation equals the day, In other words the second coming. Also to help you are the gifts of the Spirit to confirm you or profit you to the end. So this verse actually has two sets of parallelisms. Cool!

So when studying and you see a repeated word or phrase, it is important. Open your eyes to see the parallelism. See how important it was to see that the apostles believe grace is the power of God to be holy, and not the mythical unmerited favor? It puts the Spirit of God in a powerful new light. Through the Spirit we are righteous. 1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Mark 16:16-18 shows authorities given to believers. When you stop seeing yourself as a puny sinner, but know who you are in Christ - a child of the living God with His seed within you, you can boldly command sickness to leave, and it will!

 

[CharismaticLady]

@DNB Good night.

 

[CharismaticLady]

For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
(Gal 5:17)

This is why Paul commanded not to quench the Spirit. It is the same as Romans 8:8-9
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Have you seen what are the type of things having to do with the lust of the flesh? There is not one thing that is in my new nature: Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

How about you? Cast any spells lately? LOL

There is no such thing as 'born again flesh'...we are told to crucify it. (Rom 8:13)

Context:
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Putting to death the deeds of the body is not hard to do; if you stay in the Spirit they are already put to death. We must stay in the Spirit. Pray without ceasing is to keep your mind focused on Jesus. Think about Him; think about scriptures you've read that day or what He brings to your mind. Praying is not constant talking, but abiding and listening for His voice. And if at work, a simple WWJD is key to integrity.

LOL, is being born again a process?

Not once you've repented. But coming to that place of repentance may be. It is the Holy Spirit that draws us to Jesus. Up to that point we may be in the process of "being saved" but once true repentance takes place and you are filled with the Spirit, that is when we can truly follow Him. The churches are filled with people "being saved" or "being drawn" but they are lukewarm; the Spirit is on the outside at the door knocking. They are still sinners instead of children of God. If they do not come to the place of overcoming, they are like vomit to God. Letter to the Laodecian church Rev. 3.

 

[DNB]

It is disappointing that you immediately refer to 1 John 1:8-10 as if somehow it negates chapter three, so you can stay complacent as a "sinner."

Do you see how they contradict chapter 3. But they don't actually. It is apples and oranges. Verse 8 is an unrepentant Christian who is self-righteous. They have never repented, thus the reason for verse 9. And verse 10 is a complete heretic who believes they were born sinless (like the Catholics believe about Mary). I hope you won't apply them to yourself as some kind of justification as those who walk in darkness. That is verse 6 and it goes with 8 and 10. Remember when I was telling you about parallelisms? Power/grace. Well here we have one of the other styles - contrasts. 5-10 is light vs. darkness.

5 - God is light
6 - walk in darkness
7 - walk in light
8 - claim we don't sin (so never need to repent in the first place)
9 - REPENT to become a Christian and have ALL your sins cleansed
10 - claims they have always been sinless, making God a liar who says "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Now please study 1 John 3 and apply it to yourself, instead of believing you will always be a sinner, and think it is somehow humble to admit you are a sinner. NO! Know who you are in Christ! A chile of God! Otherwise, you will never be able to command healing in Jesus name and see a miraculous healing. Nor any other the other promises for His children. 2 Peter 1:2-11

You're a sinner CL, in practice you are a sinner. How many sins did you commit today, do you need a calculator?

 

[DNB]

Dear, that is an unscriptural statement. We are NOW either a sinner and a slave to sin, or a child of God and overcomer through the power of the grace of God. NOW!!! For not going to denominational churches, you sure have picked up some of the heresies from the Reformation. Take out the trash and burn it and start clean. I've had to do that too.

That statement may be from the misinterpretation of Romans 8:9-11. Paul uses the word "flesh" twice but meaning two different things. 1. our sinful carnal nature and insticts 2. our physical body of bones and muscle. And he puts 9 next to 10-11 as our nature "not to be confused with" our physical body. It is our nature that is reborn now and made immortal, but our mortal bodies will still die and must put on immortality. In 9 we are not in the sinful carnal nature if we are in the Spirit. In Galatians 5:19-21 fulfilling the lust of the flesh is fulfilling our sinful instincts.

BTW, I wanted to share another Semitic parallelism so you can learn to pick them out for yourself. There will be key words that are the same like in Acts of the Apostles 4:33 the word "great." And what follows power/grace clarify one another. They are the same. Here is another example I found to help you when you study so you can pick them out for yourself.

1 Corinthians 1:
7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These parallelisms will either be in the same verse or connecting verses. Here it shows that the revelation equals the day, In other words the second coming. Also to help you are the gifts of the Spirit to confirm you or profit you to the end. So this verse actually has two sets of parallelisms. Cool!

So when studying and you see a repeated word or phrase, it is important. Open your eyes to see the parallelism. See how important it was to see that the apostles believe grace is the power of God to be holy, and not the mythical unmerited favor? It puts the Spirit of God in a powerful new light. Through the Spirit we are righteous. 1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Mark 16:16-18 shows authorities given to believers. When you stop seeing yourself as a puny sinner, but know who you are in Christ - a child of the living God with His seed within you, you can boldly command sickness to leave, and it will!

You're a sinner CL, you sin every day, stop kidding yourself and speaking in either a figurative sense, or an idealogically.

 

[DNB]

@DNB Good night.

Pray for forgiveness for all the sins that you committed today. I did for mine.

 

[Cooper]

I have to say : - I do like "The Living Bible."

Rom 7:15-23 TLB
(15) I don’t understand myself at all, for I really want to do what is right, but I can’t. I do what I don’t want to—what I hate.
(16) I know perfectly well that what I am doing is wrong, and my bad conscience proves that I agree with these laws I am breaking.
(17) But I can’t help myself because I’m no longer doing it. It is sin inside me that is stronger than I am that makes me do these evil things.
(18) I know I am rotten through and through so far as my old sinful nature is concerned. No matter which way I turn I can’t make myself do right. I want to but I can’t.
(19) When I want to do good, I don’t; and when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway.
(20) Now if I am doing what I don’t want to, it is plain where the trouble is: sin still has me in its evil grasp.
(21) It seems to be a fact of life that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong.
(22) I love to do God’s will so far as my new nature is concerned;
(23) (23-25) but there is something else deep within me, in my lower nature, that is at war with my mind and wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. In my mind I want to be God’s willing servant, but instead I find myself still enslaved to sin. So you see how it is: my new life tells me to do right, but the old nature that is still inside me loves to sin. Oh, what a terrible predicament I’m in! Who will free me from my slavery to this deadly lower nature? Thank God! It has been done by Jesus Christ our Lord. He has set me free.

(Rom 8:1-2 TLB)
So there is now no condemnation awaiting those who belong to Christ Jesus. For the power of the life-giving Spirit—and this power is mine through Christ Jesus—has freed me from the vicious circle of sin and death.
.

 

[Cooper]

Thought for the day based on verse 1 of Romans chapter 8 that says “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.”

To be ‘in’ Christ Jesus is like being baptised in water (total immersion). We are in the water totally and completely covered, and in like manner we are in the love of Christ Jesus, totally and completely secure in Him. It is faith that saves and in whom do we place our faith? We place our faith in Christ Jesus, and since the Father does not condemn Jesus, neither can He condemn those whose faith is in Him. We are not condemned, we will not be condemned, and we cannot be condemned while ever we are in the loving arms of Jesus who will never leave us or forsake us. Just one thing, do not commit apostasy, but we are not going to do that are we. God bless.
.

 

[amadeus]

no one is sinless, you're speaking in theory, and ideally. Look around you, and look at yourself. Every though that has passed through your head is without reproach?

Who made you her judge? Consider the wisdom of Jesus here

Grace is not grace if there's works. If i were sinless, where does my faith lie, in myself, or the grace of Christ?
I strive for perfection, but would never in a million years insult God by saying that I've attained to His image fully.

So then don't say that you have. I am not asking you to do so, but leave the judgment of others where it belongs, which is not to you, is it?

"Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me." John 21:21-22


God has certainly given us the means to accomplish that which for each us alone as a man of flesh would indeed be impossible: Ministers as per Eph 4:11ff, the written Scriptures, the Holy Spirit... and any gifts and/or abilities He has provided us along with any additional needed help available for the asking. Did He provide all of these things for naught?

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7
The exception I have see to this verse would be if we were to ask amiss as per James 4:3. The only thing that limits God's work in u us is us!

Are we better than all of the OT people who died when they did not work the work put before them by God? Is God a respecter persons?

Who is to say that no person can accomplish, or has not accomplished this thing or that thing prior to having the dirt thrown over his face at the end of his allotted time here? Jesus certainly did it prior to Calvary as we see here:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Jesus overcame all that stood between his tempted flesh and God. He did it before he was crucified. By the power of God in us, if we allow it, can God not do the same? He can! If He does not, the limiter is not Him, but again, us!

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

 

[amadeus]

If I was God, I certainly would be offended that a worm claims to have attained my holy image.

But of course you are not God, so why do you presume to be offended as if you were? But, while considering God's reactions, consider also what He would think of any person who dismissed His power to accomplish His purpose in a person to change the person from corruptible to incorruptible. When is that last trump if not at the moment a person has yielded himself finally completely to the Holy Spirit? People who have not done this yet are perhaps continuing to tempt God by quenching the Holy Spirit within themselves? Can a man tempt God? He can certain try... as the devil tried with Jesus!

 

[reformed1689]

Were you anointed by the Holy Spirit when you spoke those words against @CharismaticLady ? Did God also allow you to see all of her heart when you spoke those words? If your answer is, no, why would not these words of Jesus be applied against you?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matt 7:1-5

As usual, another verse taken out of context. I apologized for being wrong about what I said about her. Then she goes and puts this trash. So yes, actually I did follow the words of Jesus by taking the log out of my own eye. Thanks.

 

[amadeus]

As usual, another verse taken out of context. I apologized for being wrong about what I said about her. Then she goes and puts this trash. So yes, actually I did follow the words of Jesus by taking the log out of my own eye. Thanks.

Out of context? What is the context for God for each of us other than the place where each one of us is walking? Do you use men's rules for composition and clarity to determine a context... or worse do you use the deduction or conclusion of some other man or doctrine of man to make your determination without really considering what God may be saying to you personally? If you use the Bible, then quote the words or if you paraphrase give a scriptural reference. Are you supposed to be a teacher?

God 'spoke' His Word for men before the foundation the world, but we can 'hear' Him as we talk to Him or read the Bible... if our hearts are really open. Can a man open his heart to God? Do you? Don't set the personal Him aside with the foolish presumption that God is now silent. You cannot hear because if you have ears you have closed them to Him in favor what you have already decided, or what your own teachers/leaders have decided.

Even if you really believe what someone here writes is trash, don't just call it trash! At least give a more precise reason that someone can seek his teeth into other than, 'she is wrong' or 'the Bible teaches against it'. You've learned some bad habits of accusing without describing why especially to the person you are accusing, but also to anyone else who may be reading what you write.

Ask God to help you hear and understand yourself!

 

[Truther]

It results from a flawed gospel that does not start with the Ten Commandments to show the unsaved person the extent of his or her sinfulness. This causes many converts, especially in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, to "accept Jesus in their hearts" without knowing that they are hopeless sinners, deserving of hell. Too many adopt Christianity without having any real conviction of sin, so they have no real idea of exactly why Jesus died on the cross.

When a faithful witness for Christ warned people in a mainstream Charismatic meeting that they needed to repent of their sin and trust in the finished work of Christ, the woman preacher accused him of having a demon and had security frog march him out of the meeting.

If people don't know how deep and hateful their sin is to God, they won't see the need to repent, and they will profess Christianity while still having their hearts still back in the world along with the sins they want to keep. This means that the god that they are serving is the nice comfortable god that suits their lifestyle, instead of the God of the Bible who will bring them to judgment to answer for their sins. This is idolatry, because it is an image of God constructed in their imagination.

So if many of these are "Spirit-filled" religious people, then one has to wonder what spirit they are filled with, if they haven't fully repented and forsaken their sinful habit patterns.

But for the genuine convert, even though the power and penalty of sin has been removed, and they have sincerely repented and forsaken their sinfulness and developed a hate for sin and a love for holiness, the presence of sin is still there in their mortal bodies, which causes a conflict between the flesh and the Spirit. This is why Paul says that he beats his body into submission so he doesn't end up being a hypocrite and a castaway.

Any professing believer who doesn't have a struggle with the presence of sin in his mortal body, is not aware of the sinfulness of sin that a genuine convert has whose heart yearns for full holiness, and groans and mourns because he can't achieve the holiness his heart strongly desires.

The awareness of the presence of sin in a believer causes that person to run to Christ and lay hold on Him with a passion that someone who thinks they have no sin lacks, and sits in the mistaken complacency that they have "arrived".

Nice post.

However, the only way to beat the sin problem is to pray in the Spirit.

It is a nightmare trying to serve Jesus without His hands on Spiritual assistance.

We, as Paul, need to acknowledge our hidden carnal nature, then pray until the Holy Ghost minimizes it's effect on our inner man.

Only the presence of the Spirit can conquer our fleshly desires as we yield to the Spirit.

This process can get uncomfortable and messy, but in the end, transform our inner man.

I am speaking of getting alone with God and praying in tongues for at least a half hour(Paul said "my spirit prayeth"), then the flesh will begin to break.

After coming out of that type of environment, it is nearly impossible to be tempted to sin, but if we don't redo it, the spirit "wears off", if you know what I mean.

 

[prism]

Not once you've repented. But coming to that place of repentance may be. It is the Holy Spirit that draws us to Jesus. Up to that point we may be in the process of "being saved" but once true repentance takes place and you are filled with the Spirit, that is when we can truly follow Him. The churches are filled with people "being saved" or "being drawn" but they are lukewarm; the Spirit is on the outside at the door knocking. They are still sinners instead of children of God. If they do not come to the place of overcoming, they are like vomit to God. Letter to the Laodecian church Rev. 3.

Yes I have read Jesus’ letters to the 7 churches and He says nothing of the mumbo jumbo you are mentioning. Here this too is for Christians...


Hebrews 4:16 KJVS
[16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


2 Peter 1:4-7 KJVS
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

so yes there is a definite point where we are His, but there is also a growing process.

 

[reformed1689]

Even if you really believe what someone here writes is trash, don't just call it trash! At least give a more precise reason that someone can seek his teeth into other than, 'she is wrong' or 'the Bible teaches against it'. You've learned some bad habits of accusing without describing why especially to the person you are accusing, but also to anyone else who may be reading what you write.

Particularly the trash she wrote here, and it is filthy trash, is that I only Parrot Calvin. In fact, I've never quoted Calvin on this forum. Not one time. I don't get my doctrine from Calvin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You're a sinner CL, in practice you are a sinner. How many sins did you commit today, do you need a calculator?

I'm a child of God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Particularly the trash she wrote here, and it is filthy trash, is that I only Parrot Calvin. In fact, I've never quoted Calvin on this forum. Not one time. I don't get my doctrine from Calvin.

LOL And what is your new name, DT?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes I have read Jesus’ letters to the 7 churches and He says nothing of the mumbo jumbo you are mentioning. Here this too is for Christians...


Hebrews 4:16 KJVS
[16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


2 Peter 1:4-7 KJVS
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

so yes there is a definite point where we are His, but there is also a growing process.

What do you believe the "growing process" is for?