The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

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101G

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to all trinity believers, when I made this statement, "The Lord Jesus referes to himself in Spirit as Father. when he says "MY" Father which is in Heaven, he is referring to his OWN Spirit. and the Spirit which is in heaven says my Son he is saying "MY" body on earth". I didn't supply scripture with that. my excuse, so here is the scripture that cleary shows this, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".
while God, the Spirit, Jesus the Holy Ghost is in Heaven, his Body was on Earth speaking to Nicodemus at the very same time. BINGO.

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DPMartin

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or the "Offspring", meaning the "diversity" of God in Intrinsic Spatial.

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you don't get, what is of God is God to anything that is not God. God is God to anything not God, the Word of God is God to anything that is not God, and God's Presence the Holy Spirit is God to anything not God. and one is not without the other.

and you are looking at it in your limited view.

offspring is a person's child or children or an animal's young or even the product or result of something.

diversity is somethings different from others you might want to go back to first grade and learn some definitions.

Adam was to be:

Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. 
and Adam and Eve lost that life and God left them be in the life of the flesh dust to dust, askes to ashes.

man is supposed to be God's dwelling place in the earth. hence Jesus teaches those born of the Holy Spirit have the power to become sons of God, and Paul explains:

Rom_8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

and Jesus says God is a Spirit, therefore, the Spirit of God is the Presence of God.
 

101G

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well thanks for the reply, second are you sure of what you're saying? example,
and you are looking at it in your limited view.

offspring is a person's child or children or an animal's young or even the product or result of something.

diversity is somethings different from others you might want to go back to first grade and learn some definitions.
using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, "OFFSPRING",
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
Well what do you know, a "Offspring" is also known as a "diversity"... :eek: but what's important about this definition is where this word come from, meaning it's ROOT, which is G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.
other words to be "BORN", which God never is. but the Flesh he can in is. listen, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". so a "Child"/flesh is born, which G1085 γένος genos connote. but the Son/spirit is given .... is not BORN, so your Natural biological son who suppose to be God fails flat on it face. but what dwells in the Flesh which is the son is as Isaiah 9:6 states "FATHER", and that's "EVERLASTING FATHER"... :eek: ... say what? yes, that son is the MIGHTY God, the EVERLASTING FATHER. so that separate Father and son false teaching goes right out the door. see this is the Ignorance we are standing aganist.
*********************************************************************************************************

So while we wait on someone who can produce a scripture that can disprove, Matthew 1:20, that the Holy Spirit is ………… NOT ………. the Father. lets move on with God, just a bit, but still stay in the OT. for many say Jesus was not in the OT, well lets see if this is true. notice, we said “JESUS”, not Jesus the christ, (his flesh).

John 8:54 "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

John 8:55 "Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

John 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. (Uh O).

John 8:57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? (they was looking at Jesus flesh).

John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (OK THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT).

what the Jews didn’t know, or understand, was the “spirit”, the son of man who was speaking to them was before Abraham, but not his flesh, only the “spirit” was before Abraham.

"I AM", the Lord Jesus said. so who is “I AM?”. to the NATURAL mind, it’s simple to say as what one poster said, ”Simple. Jesus refers to the Father as the Father, Himself as the Son, and the Spirit as the helper he will send. He's not sending the Father”. this is the Spiritual ignorance we speak of.

but let the LIGHT of God shine in these dark hearts. scripture, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me”.
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I”.
God just told us in that “DAY” we shall know his NAME, and that it is “I”……. “I am he”. KEEP this in mind that this is the “LORD” speaking … correct… correct. when was that day that we shall know that this is him? let the bible, the Lord JESUS speak, who cannot lie. John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins”. BINGO, “I am he”. there he is in that DAY of his flesh. this is just one account directly was to Who the Lord Jesus is. this is plan and clear.

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reformed1689

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The Lord Jesus referes to himself in Spirit as Father. when he says "MY" Father which is in Heaven, he is referring to his OWN Spirit. and the Spirit which is in heaven says my Son he is saying "MY" body on earth.

now do you deny the scripture as to whom the Father is?, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

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I deny pretty much almost everything you teach.
 
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101G

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I deny pretty much almost everything you teach.
so we can take this as you have no clue to who the Father is? ..... :D

let me give you some advice, quit looking at 101G... lol, and look to God.... :cool:

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101G

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Diversified Oneness is not for the Natural carnal minds. 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual".

why the carnal mind cannot comprehend this? 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ". ;)

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Joseph77

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Throughout all Scripture,

the Father Almighty and the Son Messiah Jesus are echad. It says so in the Scriptures.

It never says the Father and the Son are echad with "a" spirit, so then, why ?

It is written that The Father and the Son, by plan, and prayer, are echad WITH the Ekklesia (born again one with a new spirit, a spirit that is set apar (holy) , their own spirit being set apart as declared by God Himself ) .....
 

101G

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Throughout all Scripture,

the Father Almighty and the Son Messiah Jesus are echad. It says so in the Scriptures.

It never says the Father and the Son are echad with "a" spirit, so then, why ?

It is written that The Father and the Son, by plan, and prayer, are echad WITH the Ekklesia (born again one with a new spirit, a spirit that is set apar (holy) , their own spirit being set apart as declared by God Himself ) .....
first thanks for the reply, second, the Son is "one" with the church, Colossians 1:19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell". and in that fulness is he, Jesus the head of the church. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence".

but as an Echad of the Father and the son that do not exist.

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101G

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I know who the Father is, he is distinct from the Son and Spirit. Each individual persons in one essence of what we know as God.
well if that is true, reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as yous say is "separate person". we say its the same person in Spirit, shared.

your answer please.

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101G

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This does not at all seem to refer to the church.
And it certainly never refers to the world's false church(es) ....
thanks for the reply, as said no, but to God, for this fulness of the Godhead, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". is this not the HEAD of the church?. lets see, Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence". and in that Body dwell all the fulness of the Godhead, (Father amd Son). see it now?

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DNB

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It is not inferred. It is taught. We see clearly the Father as God, the Son as God, and the Spirit as God. That's not an inference.
Honestly, the leading trintarian proponents do say otherwise. I have yet to hear any reputable theologian say that it's explicit, or taught.
It's entirely inferred, and barely implicit. It's the quintessence of eisegesis.
Truly! Not to mention exceptionally absurd in all its facets of Christian theology (soteriology, ontology, Biblical attestation, justice, etc..).
Convoluted nonsense without exception.
 
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Joseph77

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When "it is taught", people no longer have to think.
THey do not have to infer it.
THey do not have to imply it.

They just go along , not ever 'thinking' as they should.... as they are trusting someone they should not trust.
 

101G

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while we wait on reformed1689 answer to John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24, or anyone else, let pull out our Unitarians believers also.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”.

Not only do this verse identified who is the Father, and the Son, but also the Holy Spirit, yes who is that Son given. we have all of these suppose to be three in one Scripture.

Examine the scripture above, and see if they are separate persons. yes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are right here in this one verse.

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DNB

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When "it is taught", people no longer have to think.
THey do not have to infer it.
THey do not have to imply it.

They just go along , not ever 'thinking' as they should.... as they are trusting someone they should not trust.
THat's true, ...sorry, are you saying that the trinity is not taught?
I certainly am!
 

Joseph77

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THat's true, ...sorry, are you saying that the trinity is not taught?
I certainly am!
When the trinity is taught, people do not have to infer it, nor imply it, nor even think about it, they just apparently believe it.

Thus, they are in trouble for not actually seeking the truth and testing all things themselves. They just believed what they were taught (i.e. listened to a voice... and followed it)
 

101G

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When the trinity is taught, people do not have to infer it, nor imply it, nor even think about it, they just apparently believe it.

Thus, they are in trouble for not actually seeking the truth and testing all things themselves. They just believed what they were taught (i.e. listened to a voice... and followed it)
there is a word for this "DELUSION". Isaiah 66:4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not"

2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

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DNB

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When the trinity is taught, people do not have to infer it, nor imply it, nor even think about it, they just apparently believe it.

Thus, they are in trouble for not actually seeking the truth and testing all things themselves. They just believed what they were taught (i.e. listened to a voice... and followed it)
Yes, most have been either indoctrinated by it, or haven't heard a more plausible Gospel.
 
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