The Saved Backslider

[rockytopva]

There was a story told in the long ago about a boy on a horse carriage. While his parents were in the mercantile someone untied the horses and sent them on the run. A hero on a fast horse run the carriage down, got a hold of the reins, and brought the carriage to a stop.

Years later the boy would get in trouble and stand before a judge. When it came time for the judge to make a ruling, asking if the man understood the charges against him the young man interrupted, "Hey! I remember you! Your the man that saved me on the carriage!" In which the judge replied, "In the long ago I appeared unto you your savior, today I appear before to you as your judge.... Guilty as charged!"

If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. - Hebrews 10:26

 

[CharismaticLady]

There was a story told in the long ago about a boy on a horse carriage. While his parents were in the mercantile someone untied the horses and sent them on the run. A hero on a fast horse run the carriage down, got a hold of the reins, and brought the carriage to a stop.

Years later the boy would get in trouble and stand before a judge. When it came time for the judge to make a ruling, asking if the man understood the charges against him the young man interrupted, "Hey! I remember you! Your the man that saved me on the carriage!" In which the judge replied, "In the long ago I appeared unto you your savior, today I appear before to you as your judge.... Guilty as charged!"

If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. - Hebrews 10:26

Are you saying the backslider is still saved?

 

[rockytopva]

Are you saying the backslider is still saved?

I don't think someone with the fruit of the spirit born within him or her is going to willfully sin. As it says earlier in that same chapter....

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. - Hebrews 10:15-16

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. - Galatians 4:19

If Christ is formed on the inside there will be no wilful sin. I know of too many of my generation who were born into good families and great revival who think nothing of willfully sinning everyday, thinking those foolish who do not run after the same degree of excesses, and think nothing of any kind of judgement that may follow.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't think someone with the fruit of the spirit born within him or her is going to willfully sin. As it says earlier in that same chapter....

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. - Hebrews 10:15-16

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. - Galatians 4:19

If Christ is formed on the inside there will be no wilful sin. I know of too many of my generation who were born into good families and great revival who think nothing of willfully sinning everyday, thinking those foolish who do not run after the same degree of excesses, and think nothing of any kind of judgement that may follow.

We still have free will, and there may come a time of testing that we fail. Read further from Hebrews 10:26 to 31.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[rockytopva]

We still have free will, and there may come a time of testing that we fail. Read further from Hebrews 10:26 to 31.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Salvation... If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

After that we would have many revivals and conferences in hopes of seeing spiritual things born in the heart of the new Christians, which we would call sanctification....

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19

It is troublesome that they don't do this anymore. When a Christian is newly saved he is as a baby and needs nurturing before he can progress into sanctification. Once Christ is formed on the inside there will be no thoughts of willful sin.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

We still have free will, and there may come a time of testing that we fail. Read further from Hebrews 10:26 to 31.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The Person sanctified was Christ.

and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing; or "common thing"; putting it upon a level with the blood of a bullock, or at most counting it איך דכלנש, "as that of another man"; as the Syriac version renders it; yea, reckoning it as unclean and abominable, as the blood of a very wicked man: this is aggravated by its being "the blood of the covenant"; of the covenant of grace, because that is ratified and confirmed by it, and the blessings of it come through it; and from sanctification by it: either of the person, the apostate himself, who was sanctified or separated from others by a visible profession of religion; having given himself up to a church, to walk with it in the ordinances of the Gospel; and having submitted to baptism, and partook of the Lord's supper, and drank of the cup, "the blood of the New Testament", or "covenant": though he did not spiritually discern the body and blood of Christ in the ordinance, but counted the bread and wine, the symbols of them, as common things; or who professed himself, and was looked upon by others, to be truly sanctified by the Spirit, and to be justified by the blood of Christ, though he was not really so: or rather the Son of God himself is meant, who was sanctified, set apart, hallowed, and consecrated, as Aaron and his sons were sanctified by the sacrifices of slain beasts, to minister in the priest's office: so Christ, when he had offered himself, and shed his precious blood, by which the covenant of grace was ratified, by the same blood he was brought again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God with power; and being set down at God's right hand, he ever lives to make intercession, which is the other part of his priestly office he is sanctified by his own blood to accomplish. This clause, "wherewith he was sanctified", is left out in the Alexandrian copy: (John Gill)

Willful sin entails that the person has rejected this offering, having apostatized, proving there was no genuine conversion.

Every single believer, truly converted has sinned, have commited a sin, sins, willfully, including you. Huge difference between setting up business in sin, and the struggles against sin believers are engaged in.

Spare me your arguments, I've heard them often, all of them. You pull scripture out of context to "prove" your points (one would have to to come up with your beliefs) and you misunderstand many texts, knowing what they say, not what they mean.

Every believer has sinned willfully. This text isn't damning them to hell as in how it is often misused.

 

[JunChosen]

Eventually, ALL sins are willful sins!!

 

[Waiting on him]

Eventually, ALL sins are willful sins!!

Welcome to the forum.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Person sanctified was Christ.

and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing; or "common thing"; putting it upon a level with the blood of a bullock, or at most counting it איך דכלנש, "as that of another man"; as the Syriac version renders it; yea, reckoning it as unclean and abominable, as the blood of a very wicked man: this is aggravated by its being "the blood of the covenant"; of the covenant of grace, because that is ratified and confirmed by it, and the blessings of it come through it; and from sanctification by it: either of the person, the apostate himself, who was sanctified or separated from others by a visible profession of religion; having given himself up to a church, to walk with it in the ordinances of the Gospel; and having submitted to baptism, and partook of the Lord's supper, and drank of the cup, "the blood of the New Testament", or "covenant": though he did not spiritually discern the body and blood of Christ in the ordinance, but counted the bread and wine, the symbols of them, as common things; or who professed himself, and was looked upon by others, to be truly sanctified by the Spirit, and to be justified by the blood of Christ, though he was not really so: or rather the Son of God himself is meant, who was sanctified, set apart, hallowed, and consecrated, as Aaron and his sons were sanctified by the sacrifices of slain beasts, to minister in the priest's office: so Christ, when he had offered himself, and shed his precious blood, by which the covenant of grace was ratified, by the same blood he was brought again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God with power; and being set down at God's right hand, he ever lives to make intercession, which is the other part of his priestly office he is sanctified by his own blood to accomplish. This clause, "wherewith he was sanctified", is left out in the Alexandrian copy: (John Gill)

Willful sin entails that the person has rejected this offering, having apostatized, proving there was no genuine conversion.

Every single believer, truly converted has sinned, have commited a sin, sins, willfully, including you. Huge difference between setting up business in sin, and the struggles against sin believers are engaged in.

Spare me your arguments, I've heard them often, all of them. You pull scripture out of context to "prove" your points (one would have to to come up with your beliefs) and you misunderstand many texts, knowing what they say, not what they mean.

Every believer has sinned willfully. This text isn't damning them to hell as in how it is often misused.

Sorry, but as usual we disagree.

 

[Waiting on him]

Before disputing further about HEBREWS it needs to be understood that Paul isn't presenting the Gospel to converted Jews. It's the function of only today's religion to repeatedly preach the gospel too the converted.

 

[rockytopva]

I had around a dozen family members over for Easter dinner in which I grilled steak and everyone contributed a dish. Before praying over the meal I told this story (quickly as everyone was hungry), reminding everyone that Christ came first as a sacrifice and will come next as a judge. And if anyone was not saved it is not a hard thing to embrace.

 

[DNB]

I had around a dozen family members over for Easter dinner in which I grilled steak and everyone contributed a dish. Before praying over the meal I told this story (quickly as everyone was hungry), reminding everyone that Christ came first as a sacrifice and will come next as a judge. And if anyone was not saved it is not a hard thing to embrace.

...just in case you weren't aware, there's a Covid19 pandemic around the world. It has been mandated globally, by all government agencies, that people remain in isolation, not socializing or coming in contact with people outside their immediate household.
But, this hasn't been publicized very much, so maybe you missed the memo?

 

[Dcopymope]

...just in case you weren't aware, there's a Covid19 pandemic around the world. It has been mandated globally, by all government agencies, that people remain in isolation, not socializing or coming in contact with people outside their immediate household.
But, this hasn't been publicized very much, so maybe you missed the memo?

.... Yeah I'm sure he is aware that we have tyrants trying to dictate to society how it should behave, think, socialize and conduct their everyday lives, like some regimented hell hole. And the sheep are just going right along with it.

 

[rockytopva]

...just in case you weren't aware, there's a Covid19 pandemic around the world. It has been mandated globally, by all government agencies, that people remain in isolation, not socializing or coming in contact with people outside their immediate household.
But, this hasn't been publicized very much, so maybe you missed the memo?

No pandemic can bother me. I am covered with the blood of the Lamb! Also praying healing and protection in Jesus name!

 

[DNB]

No pandemic can bother me. I am covered with the blood of the Lamb! Also praying healing and protection in Jesus name!

I actually wish that were true, but I've learnt through the years that those who make such audacious claims, typically are self-righteous and deluded.
And since you're putting others at risk, who's well-being seems to be contingent upon your prayers, not to mention defying a governmental ordinance, I highly question the soundness, conviction and veracity of your argument?

 

[rockytopva]

I actually wish that were true, but I've learnt through the years that those who make such audacious claims, typically are self-righteous and deluded.
And since you're putting others at risk, who's well-being seems to be contingent upon your prayers, not to mention defying a governmental ordinance, I highly question the soundness, conviction and veracity of your argument?

I am white, with tough luck going in, of Scottish descent, and at one time a very negative guy. In the 1990's our factory hired several VT football players who were all black and of Word of Faith doctrine. In all my years of knowing these guys I have never once heard the first negative word out of their mouth, everything they spoke was faith. They called me, "McCwowt" and would say things like...

"Do you know what over comes fear McCwowt? Action! Action overcomes fear"

"I'm getting out of here McCwowt" And then lay out some plan of escape. They would also come to me saying...

"What are you believing God for McCwowt?" And expect some great plan that would bring joy to their hearts.

They were also very schooled in the Word of Faith. If you had any pains at all they would offer to pray for you right then and there. They also broke me of my negative talk and for that I am eternally grateful.

The scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. - Romans 10:11

I learned this kind of faith and have never been ashamed for doing so. My Word of Faith brethren all moved on and I miss them. It is hard to find people who will faith talk with me these days!

 

[DNB]

I am white, with tough luck going in, of Scottish descent, and at one time a very negative guy. In the 1990's our factory hired several VT football players who were all black and of Word of Faith doctrine. In all my years of knowing these guys I have never once heard the first negative word out of their mouth, everything they spoke was faith. They called me, "McCwowt" and would say things like...

"Do you know what over comes fear McCwowt? Action! Action overcomes fear"

"I'm getting out of here McCwowt" And then lay out some plan of escape. They would also come to me saying...

"What are you believing God for McCwowt?" And expect some great plan that would bring joy to their hearts.

They were also very schooled in the Word of Faith. If you had any pains at all they would offer to pray for you right then and there. They also broke me of my negative talk and for that I am eternally grateful.

The scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. - Romans 10:11

I learned this kind of faith and have never been ashamed for doing so. My Word of Faith brethren all moved on and I miss them. It is hard to find people who will faith talk with me these days!

I'm glad to hear about your conversion, and the circumstances around it.
I've heard way too much boasting on the site, though, that I remain skeptical as to who truly has such faith, conviction and power, as that of which they claim.
I hope that you're correct in all that you say, and that you don't do more damage than good by defying the isolation mandate, either by immediate physical risk, or bad example.