Are Protestants "saved? "

[Eternally Grateful]

Though salvation is most assuredly conditional, (God's love is unconditional... Apocalyptic prophecy is unconditional... Most other prophecy is conditional... God's promises are conditional) I would hesitate to call salvation a reward. Though conditional, salvational isn't something we earn. But we must place ourselves, by our own choices, in a place to receive salvation. We cannot for example receive salvation in a state of mind that has no intention of ceasing in practicing any form of evil and sin.

If this is true I must ask like I asked yesterday, has this person who is coming to God with the intention of continuing to practicing evil and sin actually repented?

I ask, because in my view, we do not come to true saving faith until we have first come to true repentance,

 

[FollowHim]

Forgive me, but did you not just say we are purified by the blood, why do you now seem to be saying it is not just the blood, but also our actions (works)

Let me clarify this statement. Purification is cleansing, washing away that which makes unclean and unholy.
This is one statement, which talks about the unclean becoming clean.

Now scripture is full of warnings about the pure to not become impure, the clean to not become unclean.
Actions are the thing that makes us impure and unclean.

One could believe that the purity and cleanliness cannot be tainted but this is not scriptural.

7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7

10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1

22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Col 1

28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.
Col 1

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Eph 1:4-6

The fools of this world believe they can sin without repentance and claim the promises of Christ which He gave to those who follow and live a life worthy of Him. This is why faith brings salvation, without faith no one will be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let me clarify this statement. Purification is cleansing, washing away that which makes unclean and unholy.
This is one statement, which talks about the unclean becoming clean.

Now scripture is full of warnings about the pure to not become impure, the clean to not become unclean.
Actions are the thing that makes us impure and unclean.

One could believe that the purity and cleanliness cannot be tainted but this is not scriptural.

7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7

10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1

22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Col 1

28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.
Col 1

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Eph 1:4-6

The fools of this world believe they can sin without repentance and claim the promises of Christ which He gave to those who follow and live a life worthy of Him. This is why faith brings salvation, without faith no one will be saved.

so let me see if I get this right

when we come to God, we are cleansed of all unrighteousness and made pure

After this, We are on our own, and have to keep ourselves clean (is this even possible?) otherwise we will still go to hell with all the other sinners?

after you answer this.

what is your definition of clean?

 

[FollowHim]

You people and your silly accusations.

yes you got this right,

we are washed in spiritual water and made white as snow. It is the reason we will get to heaven.

so why are so many people teaching we purify ourselves by our works, and if we are not clean enough we will lose salvation and go to hell?

I am glad in your eyes we are just silly, that is mild compared to some accusation that are spoken.
Purify yourselves

8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10

1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

Interestingly you have not addressed the core question, cause and effect.
We believe and so are saved.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16

This is a simple cause and effect relationship. Some seem to feel this is earning salvation, even though faith itself is a gift from God.
Why is it earning something, or it being conditional is such a hard thing to admit?

Some claim man is sent to hell because they rejected Jesus, freely, which again is a lack of belief or faith results in eternal torment.
Even babies, who cannot choose or believe are doomed to eternal torment. They are guilty of unbelief.

 

[FollowHim]

so let me see if I get this right

when we come to God, we are cleansed of all unrighteousness and made pure

After this, We are on our own, and have to keep ourselves clean (is this even possible?) otherwise we will still go to hell with all the other sinners?

after you answer this.

what is your definition of clean?

Walking with Jesus is not being on our own. Communion is the power of our walk in Christ, the heart of love and life.
Jesus tells us that through abiding in Him and His word, we stay connected, purified, cleansed in Him.

I think your mindset is not communion but an individual who things happen to, but is not transformed, united with God, a new creation, one in the Kingdom, with the indwelling Holy Spirit. If this was your understanding then you would not ask the question about being on our own.

My experience in Christ is always being carried, always being supported and encouraged. Much of this reality is what we have. Some never actually know Jesus, but seem to make the words fit.

A true insight to our dilemma, is Judas. All the apostles thought he was one of them, chosen by Jesus, yet he turned out to be the betrayer. Each of us has a walk, a reality, a reconning and a balance. I cannot speak for anyone but myself and my light that Jesus placed within me.

Clean. Clean is like King David, Samson, Peter and Paul. An earthen vessel carrying an eternal precious Holy Spirit.
These are people God deemed righteous and Holy, so I have still much to learn and in His grace walk in His ways, Amen.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am glad in your eyes we are just silly, that is mild compared to some accusation that are spoken.
Purify yourselves

8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10

1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

Interestingly you have not addressed the core question, cause and effect.
We believe and so are saved.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16

This is a simple cause and effect relationship. Some seem to feel this is earning salvation, even though faith itself is a gift from God.
Why is it earning something, or it being conditional is such a hard thing to admit?

Some claim man is sent to hell because they rejected Jesus, freely, which again is a lack of belief or faith results in eternal torment.
Even babies, who cannot choose or believe are doomed to eternal torment. They are guilty of unbelief.

its funny how what you say here is exactly what I have preached.

Yet you say I have not addressed the core question.

How is this so?

and PS. Placing our faith in God to wholly save us and do what he promised is not work. As Jesus said, it is the work of God we believe. It is not that we whipped up this belief on our own. God opened our eyes and showed us his truth, We chose to say yes God I want that, Or no God I do not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Walking with Jesus is not being on our own. Communion is the power of our walk in Christ, the heart of love and life.
Jesus tells us that through abiding in Him and His word, we stay connected, purified, cleansed in Him.

I think your mindset is not communion but an individual who things happen to, but is not transformed, united with God, a new creation, one in the Kingdom, with the indwelling Holy Spirit. If this was your understanding then you would not ask the question about being on our own.

well you think wrong

For once can people in here stop thinking they KNOW what others mindset is, and stop to actually listen to what they are saying?


My mindset is fellowship and communion with God. who has cleansed us, made us white as snow. has begun a good work in us, and has promise what he has begun he will complete UNTIL the day of Christ.

I asked the question about us being on our own, because it is what I perceived from what you said, Since you said After we are saved, we must purify our selves or to keep from becoming stained, To me this is putting a person out on their own. And totally contradicts what you said here about communion being filled with the spirit, being transformed and united with God as a new creation.

Because if this is true. And God said he WILL perfect what he started. then why would you say after we are left on our own to keep ourselves purified? because this makes no sense

 

[FollowHim]

its funny how what you say here is exactly what I have preached.
Yet you say I have not addressed the core question.
How is this so?
and PS. Placing our faith in God to wholly save us and do what he promised is not work. As Jesus said, it is the work of God we believe. It is not that we whipped up this belief on our own. God opened our eyes and showed us his truth, We chose to say yes God I want that, Or no God I do not

You people and your silly accusations.
yes you got this right,
we are washed in spiritual water and made white as snow. It is the reason we will get to heaven.
so why are so many people teaching we purify ourselves by our works, and if we are not clean enough we will lose salvation and go to hell?

So you agree with my sharing. God bless you, may the Lord bless you as you walk in His pure and holy ways.
Amen

 

[FollowHim]

well you think wrong

For once can people in here stop thinking they KNOW what others mindset is, and stop to actually listen to what they are saying?


My mindset is fellowship and communion with God. who has cleansed us, made us white as snow. has begun a good work in us, and has promise what he has begun he will complete UNTIL the day of Christ.

I asked the question about us being on our own, because it is what I perceived from what you said, Since you said After we are saved, we must purify our selves or to keep from becoming stained, To me this is putting a person out on their own. And totally contradicts what you said here about communion being filled with the spirit, being transformed and united with God as a new creation.

Because if this is true. And God said he WILL perfect what he started. then why would you say after we are left on our own to keep ourselves purified? because this makes no sense

Do you know empathy, and being in the same thinking as another?
Obviously this is alien to you, because your cannot distinguish between my sharing my experiences in Christ and the theology which makes sense of this. But to me, it makes sense because you have not experienced things like myself.

I have shared with others about prayer and praise, we both know where the other has been. Paul talks about us becoming of one mind.
I have found this with some, but clearly not between you and I.

It is illuminating you missed my intent, because the initial experience is not part of your walk.
I understand now why we cannot connect, but I am at peace.

To get back to faith causes salvation, do you accept this, ie salvation is conditional?
Some on this thread do not, because the word earn to them is heresy.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you agree with my sharing. God bless you, may the Lord bless you are you walk in His pure and holy ways.
Amen

I agree with your sharing of how we are washed, Yes

I think I disagree with what you think happens after we are cleansed.

 

[FollowHim]

"well you think wrong"

Ironic, but the statement suggests exactly a lack of connection or understanding, which is exactly my point.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus told the apostles that the holy Spirit would teach them all things. Yet you disagree. You didn't answer my questions.
A. On whose interpretation are you relying that only the apostles were taught by God?
B. Why do you believe none can be taught of God today?

Keep in mind the following...
KJV Matthew 28
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus' promise to be with the apostles until the end of the world... Did that apply only to the apostles?

Hi. Thank you for this opportunity to bible study with you.

First: I am not relying on anyone’s interpretation. I am relying on CONTEXT....and in context only the Apostles are present when He said it.

Second thing I am relying on: That VS says: He (The Advocate) will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. How can The Advocate bring to EVERY Christian remembrance all things that Jesus said when Jesus didn’t say all things to us. John 21:25 also says there were MANY things not even written down. How are YOU going to remember those things brakelite? You NEVER experienced them.

Third thing I am relying on: What do we do when your “remembrance” is different than mine which is different then Joes which is different then Judy etc etc etc. Why is the Advocate helping me remember something that is OPPOSITE of what you remember.

Bible study Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you know empathy, and being in the same thinking as another?
Obviously this is alien to you, because your cannot distinguish between my sharing my experiences in Christ and the theology which makes sense of this. But to me, it makes sense because you have not experienced things like myself.

I have shared with others about prayer and praise, we both know where the other has been. Paul talks about us becoming of one mind.
I have found this with some, but clearly not between you and I.

It is illuminating you missed my intent, because the initial experience is not part of your walk.
I understand now why we cannot connect, but I am at peace.

To get back to faith causes salvation, do you accept this, ie salvation is conditional?
Some on this thread do not, because the word earn to them is heresy.

You are using experience as your guide and not scripture? I am just asking so I can understand what your trying to say,

Did I misunderstand you? Did you not say that after we are saved or purified, we must continue to remain pure? please help me understand so I do not misinterpret you.

Is salvation based on Grace through faith alone? Yes?

Is faith a condition? Depends on what you mean by condition.

If someone comes and offers everyone a gift and some take it, and some do not. Did the person who took the gift earn the gift? Or was it freely given, freely received?

 

[bbyrd009]

Even babies, who cannot choose or believe are doomed to eternal torment. They are guilty of unbelief.

yikes, good luck Supporting that!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"well you think wrong"

Ironic, but the statement suggests exactly a lack of connection or understanding, which is exactly my point.

then instead of sitting here mocking me and telling me how wrong I am with every post,

can you explain it to me?

because I do not see us agreeing with what happens to a person after we are saved.

and can you tell me how I can be wrong in thinking I disagree with what you believe after we are saved.

How can I be wrong in my own thinking? of what I believe?

That makes no sense

 

[bbyrd009]

If someone comes and offers everyone a gift and some take it, and some do not. Did the person who took the gift earn the gift? Or was it freely given, freely received?

well, if the "gift" is a better way to perceive and thus act, then obv the perception/action is required, right? Otherwise why count the cost?

 

[Episkopos]

well, if the "gift" is a better way to perceive and thus act, then obv the perception/action is required, right? Otherwise why count the cost?

Right. We will be judged on what we did or how we used that gift. I think many get hung up on thinking that we will be judged by what Jesus did for us rather than we we did with the grace and time we have been given to advance in God's ways.

 

[bbyrd009]

Right. We will be judged on what we did or how we used that gift. I think many get hung up on thinking that we will be judged by what Jesus did for us rather than we we did with the grace and time we have been given to advance in God's ways.

work to make your calling and election sure huh :)

 

[FollowHim]

I agree with your sharing of how we are washed, Yes

I think I disagree with what you think happens after we are cleansed.

This kind of discussion can be summarised with Jesus's comment
"Go now and leave your life of sin" John 8:11

8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:8-11

The idea of never falling, is such an aspiration of perfect walking, here Peter putting forward to believers.
Paul talks of perfection

Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace.
2 Cor 13:11

18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
20 These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.'
Matt 15:18-20

A heart that desires walking the way of love is deeply wounded by unclean and wrong behaviour.

But this walk is impossible unless driven by Jesus and His ways.
Our walk in Christ always starts with the aspiration we will end with Christ.
For some this cannot be true, because the promise must always finish with Christ or the walk is false.

Jesus disagrees, and warns us that the goal is where we must be, even though the start can be good, it could fail.
For some this admitting failure is possible, denies Jesus and His power, except it is Jesus who told us this.

The parable of the seed and the sower is about who we are dictates the outcome, if we are not good soil, then little wonder things go ary.

 

[bbyrd009]

A heart that desires walking the way of love is deeply wounded by unclean and wrong behaviour.

wadr imo one would have to first have labelled the behavior, and i suggest that neither Yah nor little kids spend much time on that at all, Who told you that you were naked? and even Understand why the publicans and prostitutes are beating you in, iow "deeply wounded" would not be going and eating with publicans and sinners at all prolly, would it? "Deeply wounded" is Eve imo, wadr. Deeply wounded is Right Eye, and a clean outside of a cup even. Although i do get the emotion, dont get me wrong