Your teacher, man or woman, should teach you better, correct definitions to start.
It was never an accusation. Learn the difference from someone today. If possible.
Are Protestants "saved? "
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It was never an accusation. Learn the difference from someone today. If possible.
I learnt early on my own heart deceives me. How can I be betrayed by myself? How can I be my own enemy?
And over time I realised in my interactions I often created the responses I got back. If I changed the input, I got a different output back.
And what I dwelt on and was aware of often did not help. Rather than preparing for meeting others, I would be concerned only on my own perspectives. And if I was hurt, I would be especially defensive on those subjects. Over time though we can change, one step at a time, and things that seemed difficult can start to flow. Even here in these forums, what we ignore and what we encourage can improve.
I can only change my behaviour, and I can definitely know who is friend and who is a provocative opponent. Funnily once one knows anothers driving force you can read what to expect and what they will ignore. It is not as if they are showing you issues they care about, only ones they are confident on winning to destroy ones standing. So talking about real issues and not being sidetracked matter. God bless you
Yes, good points.
This is where knowing the school someone was taught in helps.
When instead they over-react and become defensive, and turn to attacking , that reveals the kind of school that taught them or that they are in too.
When they present ideas, without Scripture, and cannot show from Scripture any support, that's a good indictor of false teaching also, eh?
The ironic thing is it could have been a woman. I have not actually put stock in any teacher other than the Lord, but take encouragement from many.
Some have learnt fear is sinful. It makes me wonder if this teaching originated from a woman or a man? Worry and stress is truly a common theme among female believers, anxiousness is often how fear shows itself. So you could see how this ethic of fear could have become a doctrine.
It therefore means Elijah sinned when Jezebel threatened his life and he fled. But I would say Elijah was wise, because God did not defend or save the many believer Jezebel had executed before, so there was good reason to get out of there. To make it even more precarious, Elijah had 400+ priests of Baal executed just before, so blood and execution were not in short supply.
Along with anxiety, to suggest we are safe in God no matter who or what we are, is supported if one says anxiety is sinful, so God must not condemn the sinner or sinning, but just belief or unbelief in Jesus.
So probably what you are addressing is actually based on the psychology of most church goers, women, and what speaks more clearly to their mindset. God bless you
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Come on man, Every post I make I have said we are saved by Faith. Will you please stop saying I have not answered.
No, What I have is you once again saying something which is not true, I have never stated anything you have accused me of saying here. How can I say this, if I have always maintained we are saved by true saving faith. Not mere belief?
Well since i have never stated this, I have no idea what your point is.
its not a prize it is a gift. Huge difference, A prize is given based on work, A gift is received by one who has done the works.
an by the way, The receipt for the gift? Its called the seal of the Holy Spirit who was given as a pledge until the day of redemption.
it is obvious by what you have said here that you have no understanding of what I believe.
Will this ever change?
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QUOTE="FollowHim, post: 725922, member: 8343"]The ironic thing is it could have been a woman. I have not actually put stock in any teacher other than the Lord, but take encouragement from many.
Some have learnt fear is sinful. It makes me wonder if this teaching originated from a woman or a man? Worry and stress is truly a common theme among female believers, anxiousness is often how fear shows itself. So you could see how this ethic of fear could have become a doctrine.
It therefore means Elijah sinned when Jezebel threatened his life and he fled. But I would say Elijah was wise, because God did not defend or save the many believer Jezebel had executed before, so there was good reason to get out of there. To make it even more precarious, Elijah had 400+ priests of Baal executed just before, so blood and execution were not in short supply.
Along with anxiety, to suggest we are safe in God no matter who or what we are, is supported if one says anxiety is sinful, so God must not condemn the sinner or sinning, but just belief or unbelief in Jesus.
So probably what you are addressing is actually based on the psychology of most church goers, women, and what speaks more clearly to their mindset. God bless you ......................................................................................[/QUOTE
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Yes, it is common, not all that unusual.
All sections of the internet show ungodly statements and unScriptural (or anti-Scripture) ideas.
Here, on this forum, I'd like to see the Scriptural ideas. When unScriptural ideas are presented, let the LIGHT SHINE ON THEM to show what they are, eh?
QUOTE="FollowHim, post: 725922, member: 8343"]The ironic thing is it could have been a woman. I have not actually put stock in any teacher other than the Lord, but take encouragement from many.
Some have learnt fear is sinful. It makes me wonder if this teaching originated from a woman or a man? Worry and stress is truly a common theme among female believers, anxiousness is often how fear shows itself. So you could see how this ethic of fear could have become a doctrine.
It therefore means Elijah sinned when Jezebel threatened his life and he fled. But I would say Elijah was wise, because God did not defend or save the many believer Jezebel had executed before, so there was good reason to get out of there. To make it even more precarious, Elijah had 400+ priests of Baal executed just before, so blood and execution were not in short supply.
Along with anxiety, to suggest we are safe in God no matter who or what we are, is supported if one says anxiety is sinful, so God must not condemn the sinner or sinning, but just belief or unbelief in Jesus.
So probably what you are addressing is actually based on the psychology of most church goers, women, and what speaks more clearly to their mindset. God bless you ......................................................................................[/QUOTE
======================================================
Yes, it is common, not all that unusual.
All sections of the internet show ungodly statements and unScriptural (or anti-Scripture) ideas.
Here, on this forum, I'd like to see the Scriptural ideas. When unScriptural ideas are presented, let the LIGHT SHINE ON THEM to show what they are, eh?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
1. I reported you because of what you were warned about and the comment you made. And go ahead and prove my false witnessing, Go ahead and report it. I am not worried, because I have not yet done what you accuse me of doing
2. As for what school I went to?
I did not go to school. I did grow up in a church, is this what you mean? some of what I was taught in that church i no longer hold to. because I have studied and tested each doctrine and found some of it to be in error.
as for the rest. Stop thinking you can teach me, and be open, We are not here to teach others, we are here to learn from each other. and discuss the word. and hopefully grow ourselves.
if your here just to teach others and not learn yourself.
Well good luck
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this is the problem
You think because they go to some school. You know what they believe, But how did you come up with that conclusion? What makes you think a person who went to school A believes everything that school taught? and what makes you think if they went to that school, they even still follow that schools theology?
You want to learn about what people believe, Stop. Listen to what they say, Don't make assumptions. if you have a question. Ask them to get clarification. If they get mad because you ask them, well that's on them (and you, if you get mad when people ask you questions) Don;t assume you know anything, always remember, when you assume, what you are in effect doing. And then based on this information, If you disagree with them, Share with them WHY you disagree. and be open for them to respond knowing you may have taught them something, and might show them what they never knew before. Or they may still disagree with you, And be open for them to respond to you in kind showing their disagreement and why
That is what bible discussion should be like.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
GOOD STARTING POINT for some other thread ..... (not related to this thread OP, except maybe as a tangent)
Thus, let us proceed to a new thread...... called God's Word is Truth
(although the last thread with a title for Truth, too many UNtruthful posters from a false religions posted there, overwhelming it) ...
If that happens again, we can just put on 'ignore' all the unrelated posters for the time of the thread, eh? Okay ?
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QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 725933, member: 8558"]this is the problem
You think because they go to some school. You know what they believe, But how did you come up with that conclusion? What makes you think a person who went to school A believes everything that school taught? and what makes you think if they went to that school, they even still follow that schools theology?
You want to learn about what people believe, Stop. Listen to what they say, Don't make assumptions. if you have a question. Ask them to get clarification. If they get mad because you ask them, well that's on them (and you, if you get mad when people ask you questions) Don;t assume you know anything, always remember, when you assume, what you are in effect doing. And then based on this information, If you disagree with them, Share with them WHY you disagree. and be open for them to respond knowing you may have taught them something, and might show them what they never knew before. Or they may still disagree with you, And be open for them to respond to you in kind showing their disagreement and why
That is what bible discussion should be like.[/QUOTE
==============================================================
Thus, let us proceed to a new thread...... called God's Word is Truth
(although the last thread with a title for Truth, too many UNtruthful posters from a false religions posted there, overwhelming it) ...
If that happens again, we can just put on 'ignore' all the unrelated posters for the time of the thread, eh? Okay ?
===========================================================
QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 725933, member: 8558"]this is the problem
You think because they go to some school. You know what they believe, But how did you come up with that conclusion? What makes you think a person who went to school A believes everything that school taught? and what makes you think if they went to that school, they even still follow that schools theology?
You want to learn about what people believe, Stop. Listen to what they say, Don't make assumptions. if you have a question. Ask them to get clarification. If they get mad because you ask them, well that's on them (and you, if you get mad when people ask you questions) Don;t assume you know anything, always remember, when you assume, what you are in effect doing. And then based on this information, If you disagree with them, Share with them WHY you disagree. and be open for them to respond knowing you may have taught them something, and might show them what they never knew before. Or they may still disagree with you, And be open for them to respond to you in kind showing their disagreement and why
That is what bible discussion should be like.[/QUOTE
==============================================================
:)
The Sydney Morning Herald
smh.com.auThe Sydney Morning Herald is a daily compact newspaper published in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, and owned by Nine. Founded in 1831 as the Sydney Herald, the SMH is the oldest continuously published newspaper in Australia and has become a national online-news brand. The print version of the newspaper is published six days a week.Wikipedia
The Sydney Morning Herald
smh.com.auThe Sydney Morning Herald is a daily compact newspaper published in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, and owned by Nine. Founded in 1831 as the Sydney Herald, the SMH is the oldest continuously published newspaper in Australia and has become a national online-news brand. The print version of the newspaper is published six days a week.Wikipedia
So we receive salvation because of faith, not unbelief.
It is therefore conditional salvation, or as some say earnt.
That is all I need. You seem fixated on gift or reward. Jesus gives rewards all the time, so why this fixation.
What amuses me is you seem committed to being an opponent while claiming you believe as you do.
I can see those born into the church can easily get confused as to what salvation is or repentance, as they have always obeyed and towed the line, and would not regard themselves as lost sinners saved by grace. I have relatives who are very much we put on a good show and do not shame believers by talking about our struggles.
Paul describes meeting the Lord like this
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4:7-8
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
1 Cor 9:24
21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
Matt 25:21
Jesus expects us to be worthy of Him, to run the race, to fight the fight, to run the race for which we will obtain the prize.
Fools think the entry paper is the gift or prize, and will go where other fools are doomed to dwell.
Behaviour is Gods will and heart. Job was a man God took delight in because of his behaviour.
Cornelius was a man God listened to and led Peter to preach the gospel to him.
Love and good deeds are the Lords desire and intention for us to follow, and evil deeds and behaviour will receive His rejection and judgement.
@FollowHim , even in light of all of our shortcomings,
would you, if EG agrees, join EG and I in that new thread (God's Truth), for SHORT (from us all) posts, from Scripture, indicating from Scripture, from God,
what is appropriate,
and seriously checking our (EG and I) posts , to confirm and approve of what is of Scripture, and what is not ?
This is totally spontaneous , so to speak, in the last hour, and hopefully something that can work to good for all involved.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Nope. It is our faith in the work and promises of God that saves us
I cannot earn salvation by simply telling God yes in faith, I am a sinner and want to receive his gift based on his work. I am not sure where you get this idea that people can earn salvation by simply placing their faith in the work of Christ
Yes, He gives reward all the time, To his children
Our discussion is how one is made a child of God. not the reards a person who is already a child may get. maybe that is the confusion?
Paul ran for the prize
Not for salvation
Do you understand the difference between being justified in Christ (salvation by faith)
And being sanctified by God (personal growth)
and do you understand what the author of hebrews said, when he said he has perfected forever the ones he is sanctifying, what does perfected forever mean?
or what Paul said, when he declared the truth that he who began a good work (he being God) will continue (he never said might continue) until the day of Christ (resurrection day)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
That is fine by me, as everything I hold to is based in scripture and its interpretation.
If I can learn from scripture something more, Amen.
Paul ran for the prize of salvation. Listen to Pauls fear
2 I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain.
Gal 2:2
Paul is concerned that his understanding of the gospel may have been wrong. And running the race in vain is a recurring theme.
And the failure of the race, is not getting salvation.
It is clear to me, you cannot accept faith is rewarded with salvation.
It is like a hatred that anything in us is responsible for Gods regard of us as being worthy.
It is interesting how you want to avoid the simplicity of John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Why such opposition? Jesus said of the Pharisees who knew scripture and knew of God, but rejected Him,
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41 "I do not accept praise from men,
42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts."
John 5:39-42
I share loving people, loving God, walking in His ways, repenting and following Jesus yet you oppose me like an enemy.
You can create as many ways of putting your position, but your opposition is clear. God bless you.
and from Hebrews:
Hebrews 4 - Bible Gateway
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 4 - Complete Jewish Bible
Hebrews 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB). 4 Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it; 2
for Good News has also been proclaimed to us, just as it was to them. But the message they heard didn't do them any good, because those who heard it did not combine it with trust.
People show their colours quite quickly.
Loyalty to a principle or loyalty to Jesus. Those loyal to a principle find ways of ignoring scripture and peoples intention so everything fits.
So earning salvation is so wrong and evil, even though by believing in Jesus we are saved, it is not conditional.
What is not understood, is in Christ one problem accepted is resolved elsewhere.
So we earn salvation through faith, but God gives us the faith to begin with through revelation.
So our faith is not our own in one sense, but then we are creations of the King so we do not own ourselves in another.
Fear of losing a framework or way of believing can be so strong, everything is sacrificed to maintain it.
Cults and brainwashing shows how this can happen, even up to the point of mass suicide.
So you will meet people who appear one way, but will turn everything to their perspective no matter how ill fitting it is.
The most recent posts here demonstrate this, cause and effect are not cause and effect, conditional acceptance is imposed giving.
For some salvation is dictatorship even if someone changes their mind they are saved.
God forces no one like this not even satan in Job. He is asked what he thinks of Job.
Korah rebels against Moses, but things are left to work out, Korah is swallowed by the ground and the rebellious priests burnt with flame.
No one was forced, they were allowed to hold their positions, and judgement fell. So it will be on judgement day.
Fools delude themselves God will not judge them for the sin they commit while claiming to follow Jesus and He just forgives it.
Peter talks about past sins
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
1 Peter 1:9-10
Some foolishly claim the gospel says future sins are forgiven so how you behave is irrelevant.
Peters whole argument about making our calling and election sure would be meaningless in this case as there would be no doubt, except Peter definitively does point out there can be doubt.
Imagine claiming Christ and promises, living in sin and not repenting and then standing before Jesus who expected you to be worthy of the gospel of grace and love. This place will be just weeping and gnashing of teeth, nothing else. And the confusion will be a sense of betrayal that their faith in the promises was wrong, so Jesus has let them down, except it will be clear they are total wrecks with no foundation.
At that point there will be no hope or possibility of return. I pray that God might grant repentance for those who foolishly believe they are secure in their sin, God bless you
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