Are Protestants "saved? "

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul ran for the prize of salvation. Listen to Pauls fear

2 I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain.
Gal 2:2

Paul is concerned that his understanding of the gospel may have been wrong. And running the race in vain is a recurring theme.
And the failure of the race, is not getting salvation.

It is clear to me, you cannot accept faith is rewarded with salvation.
It is like a hatred that anything in us is responsible for Gods regard of us as being worthy.

It is interesting how you want to avoid the simplicity of John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Why such opposition? Jesus said of the Pharisees who knew scripture and knew of God, but rejected Him,

39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41 "I do not accept praise from men,
42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts."
John 5:39-42

I share loving people, loving God, walking in His ways, repenting and following Jesus yet you oppose me like an enemy.
You can create as many ways of putting your position, but your opposition is clear. God bless you.

No paul did not run for the prize of salvation

If he tried, he failed and will be lost in his sin,

Again, You appear to have sanctification and christian growth confused with justification

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Later we will see if EG goes along with Scripture, or not.

scripture?

or you ar followme's interpretation of scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

and from Hebrews:
Hebrews 4 - Bible Gateway

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 4 - Complete Jewish Bible
Hebrews 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB). 4 Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it; 2
for Good News has also been proclaimed to us, just as it was to them. But the message they heard didn't do them any good, because those who heard it did not combine it with trust.

4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

They heard the word. the same word we have heard. But they did not have FAITH in the word. And because of lack of faith, they did not enter his rest.

How is this showing they ran the race?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People show their colours quite quickly.
Loyalty to a principle or loyalty to Jesus. Those loyal to a principle find ways of ignoring scripture and peoples intention so everything fits.

So earning salvation is so wrong and evil, even though by believing in Jesus we are saved, it is not conditional.
What is not understood, is in Christ one problem accepted is resolved elsewhere.

So we earn salvation through faith, but God gives us the faith to begin with through revelation.
So our faith is not our own in one sense, but then we are creations of the King so we do not own ourselves in another.

Fear of losing a framework or way of believing can be so strong, everything is sacrificed to maintain it.
Cults and brainwashing shows how this can happen, even up to the point of mass suicide.

So you will meet people who appear one way, but will turn everything to their perspective no matter how ill fitting it is.
The most recent posts here demonstrate this, cause and effect are not cause and effect, conditional acceptance is imposed giving.

For some salvation is dictatorship even if someone changes their mind they are saved.
God forces no one like this not even satan in Job. He is asked what he thinks of Job.

Korah rebels against Moses, but things are left to work out, Korah is swallowed by the ground and the rebellious priests burnt with flame.
No one was forced, they were allowed to hold their positions, and judgement fell. So it will be on judgement day.
Fools delude themselves God will not judge them for the sin they commit while claiming to follow Jesus and He just forgives it.

Peter talks about past sins
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
1 Peter 1:9-10

Some foolishly claim the gospel says future sins are forgiven so how you behave is irrelevant.
Peters whole argument about making our calling and election sure would be meaningless in this case as there would be no doubt, except Peter definitively does point out there can be doubt.

Imagine claiming Christ and promises, living in sin and not repenting and then standing before Jesus who expected you to be worthy of the gospel of grace and love. This place will be just weeping and gnashing of teeth, nothing else. And the confusion will be a sense of betrayal that their faith in the promises was wrong, so Jesus has let them down, except it will be clear they are total wrecks with no foundation.

At that point there will be no hope or possibility of return. I pray that God might grant repentance for those who foolishly believe they are secure in their sin, God bless you

can some explain to me how we can read these words and not understand that this person is preaching a salvation based on works, not of Faith?

 

[FollowHim]

No paul did not run for the prize of salvation

If he tried, he failed and will be lost in his sin,

Again, You appear to have sanctification and christian growth confused with justification

Paul talks about doing things in vain.
Let us look at where he uses this word vain.

2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:2 Reference salvation

57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain
1 Cor 15:58 vain - victory, salvation

1 As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain.
2 Cor 6:1 vain - salvation

But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain
Gal 2:2 vain - salvation

There could be the idea Paul was after another prize than salvation, maybe the best apostle of them all, or highest convert number in all eternity.
It is always educational to suggest what else Paul could have been talking about.

Paul was so careful about his walk he talked about judging himself.

18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize.
Col 2:18

27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
1 Cor 9:27

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Phil 3:14-16

The prize in Christ is life everlasting.

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,
1 Peter 1:8-10

In Jesus the salvation of our souls is our prize, there is nothing greater or of more value.
Let fools deny the glorious riches in Christ Jesus and the plaque they claim they are trying to earn while missing the salvation of their souls with an open loving heart filled with Christ, the Holy Spirit and His words. Amen

 

[FollowHim]

can some explain to me how we can read these words and not understand that this person is preaching a salvation based on works, not of Faith?

can some explain to me how we can read these words and not understand that this person is preaching a salvation based on faith, not of works?

There is a strange idea that some have, they can dwell in sin, not repent of it, and God is both blind and forgiving for their evil behaviour even while they commit it. I met some people who said exactly this. But scripture is clear we are not as believers to do evil things.

11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
1 Peter 3:11-12

Delusions just need to be shown to those not deluded how it contradicts simple scripture.
The deluded become very irate when you do not agree with their delusion, and try and stir up antagonism.

It is odd when Gods people are called to condemn righteous loving individuals as against the gospel and the work of God in this world.
Listen to David

8 the LORD gives sight to the blind, the LORD lifts up those who are bowed down, the LORD loves the righteous.
9 The LORD watches over the alien and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked.
Psalm 146:8-9

Some say God hates the righteous and loves the sinner who claims faith while continuing in sin.
But why is it Peter agrees with David, unless God loves the righteous and will judge sinners and their wickedness.

 

[Joseph77]

The false gospel is prevalent over all the world.

"we" (Ekklesia)
cannot read these words,

words of Scripture and or any other words/posts/ ,

and go along with the false gospel,

but most others do

regardless of whether they ever read any Scripture at all,

or even all of it.


(

can some explain to me ....

 

[bbyrd009]

I learnt early on my own heart deceives me. How can I be betrayed by myself? How can I be my own enemy?
And over time I realised in my interactions I often created the responses I got back. If I changed the input, I got a different output back.

And what I dwelt on and was aware of often did not help. Rather than preparing for meeting others, I would be concerned only on my own perspectives. And if I was hurt, I would be especially defensive on those subjects. Over time though we can change, one step at a time, and things that seemed difficult can start to flow. Even here in these forums, what we ignore and what we encourage can improve.

I can only change my behaviour, and I can definitely know who is friend and who is a provocative opponent. Funnily once one knows anothers driving force you can read what to expect and what they will ignore. It is not as if they are showing you issues they care about, only ones they are confident on winning to destroy ones standing. So talking about real issues and not being sidetracked matter. God bless you

i would argue that at least in a way ones enemies become ones friends in that regard, as friends are more likely to overlook a matter, and not call one out? Which forgiveness is great, dont get me wrong, i dont talk like this irl, but nonetheless?

and as to why little kids, 3 year olds, get a pass?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul talks about doing things in vain.
Let us look at where he uses this word vain.

2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:2 Reference salvation

57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain
1 Cor 15:58 vain - victory, salvation

1 As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain.
2 Cor 6:1 vain - salvation

But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain
Gal 2:2 vain - salvation

There could be the idea Paul was after another prize than salvation, maybe the best apostle of them all, or highest convert number in all eternity.
It is always educational to suggest what else Paul could have been talking about.

Paul was so careful about his walk he talked about judging himself.

18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize.
Col 2:18

27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
1 Cor 9:27

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Phil 3:14-16

The prize in Christ is life everlasting.

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,
1 Peter 1:8-10

In Jesus the salvation of our souls is our prize, there is nothing greater or of more value.
Let fools deny the glorious riches in Christ Jesus and the plaque they claim they are trying to earn while missing the salvation of their souls with an open loving heart filled with Christ, the Holy Spirit and His words. Amen

yep. Many people believe, But believe is not enough, You have to have true faith.

As james said True faith works, If one claims to have faith but has no works, can that dead faith save them?

Of course not

These people believed in vein

 

[Eternally Grateful]

can some explain to me how we can read these words and not understand that this person is preaching a salvation based on faith, not of works?

There is a strange idea that some have, they can dwell in sin, not repent of it, and God is both blind and forgiving for their evil behaviour even while they commit it. I met some people who said exactly this. But scripture is clear we are not as believers to do evil things.

well its a Good thing That I do not believe this,

In fact, the bible says it is impossible. so i am not sure why anyone would even think this is possible.
1 John 3: 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So my question stands, I pray this was not your answer

 

[Eternally Grateful]

i would argue that at least in a way ones enemies become ones friends in that regard, as friends are more likely to overlook a matter, and not call one out? Which forgiveness is great, dont get me wrong, i dont talk like this irl, but nonetheless?

and as to why little kids, 3 year olds, get a pass?

sadly

When a friend trys to ask a question to try to understand better, or says he disagrees, and this is the way the freind sees it

Some people think they are being called out. and think they have to come back fighting.

 

[bbyrd009]

sadly

When a friend trys to ask a question to try to understand better, or says he disagrees, and this is the way the freind sees it

Some people think they are being called out. and think they have to come back fighting.

yeh, i have gotten a lot of peace of mind by realizing i am basically evil, even though i seek to do no harm to others. Therefore i ignore ppl telling me i should ________, "eat less sugar" or whatever, and try to be sensitive to any valid criticism by my enemies

 

[FollowHim]

i would argue that at least in a way ones enemies become ones friends in that regard, as friends are more likely to overlook a matter, and not call one out? Which forgiveness is great, dont get me wrong, i dont talk like this irl, but nonetheless?

and as to why little kids, 3 year olds, get a pass?

It is true, enemies often show up ones biggest weaknesses while friends will overlook them.
It is why the phrase keep you friends close and your enemies closer still.

 

[FollowHim]

well its a Good thing That I do not believe this,

In fact, the bible says it is impossible. so i am not sure why anyone would even think this is possible.
1 John 3: 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So my question stands, I pray this was not your answer

Do you believe we should walk in love, holiness and purity then as Peter and Paul call us to do?

3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:3-4

11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.
Deut 30:11

Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.
2 Tim 2:19

15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
1 Peter 1:15

I always hope those who confess Christ also know in Christ how to live and follow Him.

But as many claim this is works salvation which they regard as evil, I do wonder who is who.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is true, enemies often show up ones biggest weaknesses while friends will overlook them.
It is why the phrase keep you friends close and your enemies closer still.

ah, you think? I always inferred a diff reason there, but maybe :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you believe we should walk in love, holiness and purity then as Peter and Paul call us to do?

oh God no, i mean arent those ppl generally the most insufferable? :)

lol
understand why the pimps and hoes are beating you in

i'm kidding of course, but there is a valid point there imo

 

[FollowHim]

oh God no, i mean arent those ppl generally the most insufferable? :)

lol
understand why the pimps and hoes are beating you in

i'm kidding of course, but there is a valid point there imo

I cannot speak about people I do not know.
There are people who believe they are the best and tell everyone else.

The apostles served everyone and brought support and love to those who were open and willing to listen.
Paul was so confident of his behaviour he held it up as the example for the churches who knew him to follow.
There are many who live this life, but you would probably not notice them as they work on helping others rather than advertising what they are doing.

 

[FollowHim]

ah, you think? I always inferred a diff reason there, but maybe :)

How close was Judas to Jesus, and who betrayed Jesus in the end?
I have found often in discussion hearing the opposition raise points brings in other perspectives you would never think about, because to put it simply you would never believe anyone thought that stuff in that way.

Would the love of Jesus blaze so big if it was not for the rebellion that challenged His right to exist?
Dominance says to humbleness and love it is weak and pathetic, until love unites those who need uniting and those who dominate find they have no friends or loyalty because all they ever did was divide and conquer.

It is why Jesus calls us not to resist the evil people, but rather give what they want and love them in return. It is in the conflict they rejoice and the disharmony they create out of which they seem themselves rising victorious. It lasts a short while, until those they dominate realise they are better off without the dictator. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

yeh, i have gotten a lot of peace of mind by realizing i am basically evil, even though i seek to do no harm to others. Therefore i ignore ppl telling me i should ________, "eat less sugar" or whatever, and try to be sensitive to any valid criticism by my enemies

this is called Love, Even our enemies

If we have to attack those who are just trying to share a different view than ours. we are sorely lacking in that department

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How close was Judas to Jesus, and who betrayed Jesus in the end?
I have found often in discussion hearing the opposition raise points brings in other perspectives you would never think about, because to put it simply you would never believe anyone thought that stuff in that way.

Would the love of Jesus blaze so big if it was not for the rebellion that challenged His right to exist?
Dominance says to humbleness and love it is weak and pathetic, until love unites those who need uniting and those who dominate find they have no friends or loyalty because all they ever did was divide and conquer.

It is why Jesus calls us not to resist the evil people, but rather give what they want and love them in return. It is in the conflict they rejoice and the disharmony they create out of which they seem themselves rising victorious. It lasts a short while, until those they dominate realise they are better off without the dictator. God bless you

Jesus never really got Angry at Judas, even though he knew he would do what he did, He still loved him.

how many of us say we can do that when people come against us?