True Deliverance!

[Netchaplain]

How can one be “dead to sin” (Rom 6:2) and yet continue to possess its source, which is the “old man” (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9)? It’s scripturally certain that “dead” does not intend the eradication of the sin nature, nor the effects of it, or the Spirit would not need to oppose it (Gal 5:17), and the Apostle Paul would have not discovered its continual indwelling (Rom 7). We are not said to be in the sin nature (Rom 8:9), but it is in us! The sin nature being “crucified” (Rom 6:6) within believers separates (“sanctifies” - 2Th 2:13) them from being “in the flesh,” i.e. not condemned nor dominated by the sin nature (Rom 8:1; 6:12, 14). The crucifixion power of the Lord Jesus is applied to the old man and separates us from the natural desire for sin, which is seen in our prominent motive to continue to “shun evil” (1Pe 3:11).

Rebirth is transformation (Rom 12:2) from being dead in sin (Col 2:13)—to being “dead to sin” (Rom 6:2)! To “continue in sin” (Rom 6:1) is to desire and willingly serve sin, which is the only way one can respond in an unregenerate state, for there is no new nature to desire otherwise.

The Divine Nature of Christ was not created, thus the believer’s “new man” is not Christ’s nature, which has always been, but a nature that was created “after” His nature (Col 3:10), i.e. not in similitude of His deity but in the imputation of His holiness. This nature is the indwelling “seed,” which is that part of us that “cannot sin” (1Jn 3:9). It is the Spirit via the new nature that God “works in you” (Phl 2:13), thus it is the new nature and work of God that keeps those reborn from ever again desiring to sin willingly (Heb 10:26).

Paul demonstrates the indwelling of his new nature by the example of being a “captive to the law of sin” (Rom 7:23). The sense is that any sin committed by his old “I” is against the will of his new “I” (Rom 7:17, 20).

Again, the most significant issue concerning deliverance from sin lies not in the possession of its source nor in the commission of its works—but whether or not it’s the willful desire of the soul to sin!

 

[CharismaticLady]

How can one be “dead to sin” (Rom 6:2) and yet continue to possess its source, which is the “old man” (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9)? It’s scripturally certain that “dead” does not intend the eradication of the sin nature, nor the effects of it, or the Spirit would not need to oppose it (Gal 5:17), and the Apostle Paul would have not discovered its continual indwelling (Rom 7). We are not said to be in the sin nature (Rom 8:9), but it is in us! The sin nature being “crucified” (Rom 6:6) within believers separates (“sanctifies” - 2Th 2:13) them from being “in the flesh,” i.e. not condemned nor dominated by the sin nature (Rom 8:1; 6:12, 14). The crucifixion power of the Lord Jesus is applied to the old man and separates us from the natural desire for sin, which is seen in our prominent motive to continue to “shun evil” (1Pe 3:11).

Rebirth is transformation (Rom 12:2) from being dead in sin (Col 2:13)—to being “dead to sin” (Rom 6:2)! To “continue in sin” (Rom 6:1) is to desire and willingly serve sin, which is the only way one can respond in an unregenerate state, for there is no new nature to desire otherwise.

The Divine Nature of Christ was not created, thus the believer’s “new man” is not Christ’s nature, which has always been, but a nature that was created “after” His nature (Col 3:10), i.e. not in similitude of His deity but in the imputation of His holiness. This nature is the indwelling “seed,” which is that part of us that “cannot sin” (1Jn 3:9). It is the Spirit via the new nature that God “works in you” (Phl 2:13), thus it is the new nature and work of God that keeps those reborn from ever again desiring to sin willingly (Heb 10:26).

Paul demonstrates the indwelling of his new nature by the example of being a “captive to the law of sin” (Rom 7:23). The sense is that any sin committed by his old “I” is against the will of his new “I” (Rom 7:17, 20).

Again, the most significant issue concerning deliverance from sin lies not in the possession of its source nor in the commission of its works—but whether or not it’s the willful desire of the soul to sin!

What do you say to Christians on the forum who continue to say they sin daily? Almost proud of the fact, as if to say that if they say they don't, that is sin? And those who enjoy freedom from sin are accused of being liars?

 

[Netchaplain]

What do you say to Christians on the forum who continue to say they sin daily? Almost proud of the fact, as if to say that they don't is sin? And those who enjoy freedom from sin to be liars.

Hi and thanks for your reply! I'm sorry but I'm not sure of what you mean by the first question and comment. Concerning being "free from sin" (Rom 6:18, 22), it can mean something different to varying individuals, but to me the meaning is freedom from damnation and dominion (Ro 8:1; 6:14). Some try to think we become sinless, but this is irrelevant, seeing we are no longer guilty of sin's curse and rule; and if that's not good enough for them, there will always be disappointment.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi and thanks for your reply! I'm sorry but I'm not sure of what you mean by the first question and comment. Concerning being "free from sin" (Rom 6:18, 22), it can mean something different to varying individuals, but to me the meaning is freedom from damnation and dominion (Ro 8:1; 6:14). Some try to think we become sinless, but this is irrelevant, seeing we are no longer guilty of sin's curse and rule; and if that's not good enough for them, there will always be disappointment.

I rephrased my first sentence, but it seems to be your belief too. To enjoy true freedom from sin, and not, I'm sorry to say, the false doctrine of just from condemnation; we must continuously walk in the Spirit. Those who quench the Spirit will fall back under the flesh, and, sorry, there is damnation there, for only those who walk in the Spirit are free from sin's condemnation. Romans 6:15-16 warns those to not choose to sin again and let sin become your master. For the wages of sin is still death. Galatians 5:19-21 they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

I'm not talking about sinless perfection. I'm talking about what happens when we are born again of the Spirit. You may think, well I don't steal, commit adultery or kill - sins unto death/willful sins of lawlessness (at least, I hope your doctrine of 'no condemnation' doesn't allow you to go that far into darkness); but I do gossip sometimes and other smaller trespasses against my neighbors. Jesus takes away all desire to commit lawless wickedness, but the trespasses we commit against each other requires us to forgive each other, in order for those trespasses to be forgiven us. Matthew 6:14-15. According to 1 John 1:7 we commit these trespasses (Leviticus 5:15) even while walking in the Spirit. Trespasses can be grown out of as the fruit of the Spirit grows to maturity. As we forgive, that is when our Advocate cleanses our trespasses. Do not think for a moment that Jesus as our Advocate cleanses willful sins of lawlessness after already cleansing us of our past sins. Hebrews 10:26-31

 

[Netchaplain]

I rephrased my first sentence, but it seems to be your belief too. To enjoy true freedom from sin, and not, I'm sorry to say, the false doctrine of just from condemnation, we must continuously walk in the Spirit.

Thanks for the clarification, and I like all you've shared, though for me much of it is in a different understanding than most. To me there is a difference between true freedom from sin and complete freedom from sin, as the latter condition will without fail come with the resurrection (no more old man and old body), as surly as salvation came with regeneration. I believe God leaves the old man within us when He implants the new man (old and new natures) for the same reason He has allowed it originally, which is to cause man to require salvation (draw us to Him), as without it God would not eternally indwell us by His Spirit--something which would not have been established with Adam and Eve and their progeny.

Thus freedom from sin is not the absence of its presence nor of its effects, but from that which presently disallows union and fellowship with God--not sin but guilt from sin; and not commissions of sinning but from desiring to sin, for where one's desire is, there is there heart, "For where your treasure (what we desire or "treasure") is, there will your heart be also" (Mat 6:21). God's power is known best within the ability to keep one apart from being "in the flesh (Rom 8:9) while the flesh is in us. Guiltless but not sinless, a loving miracle.

Those who quench the Spirit will fall back under the flesh, and, sorry, there is damnation there, for only those who walk in the Spirit are free from sin's condemnation.

I think you bring up an important issue in discussing how we respond to the Spirit of God while we are maturing in Christ (Eph 4:15). Quenching the Spirit is something only those reborn do--the unsaved being without Him. As we mature in Christ we will at times miss the Spirit's guidance and enablements on many things, but quenching Him is always a temporal action done in ignorance and sin, as is anything that can interrupt, but never hinder His work in us. As long as we're on the earth there will be interruptions (moments of distractions) between us and God, but they will never hinder Him to eventually bringing us to where He wants us in this life. For example, we will not live perfect lives in our walk, i.e. 1Th 5:12-22 cannot be practically maintained all the time, but the desire to maintain it is there all the time, and this is the issue, because it causes us to depend only on God and not self or others.

Romans 6:15-16 warns those to not choose to sin again and let sin become your master. For the wages of sin is still death. Galatians 5:19-21 they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Though believers still sin, I don't believe they can ever again desire to sin--being reborn, and God "working" in us the desire to do His pleasure (Phl 2:13). Thus, only unregenerate will desire to "yield" to sin, which means to willingly perform sin. To me, the mentioning of the do's and don'ts in Scripture are to identify the spiritual and natural man.

 

[CharismaticLady]

To me there is a difference between true freedom from sin and complete freedom from sin, as the latter condition will without fail come with the resurrection (no more old man and old body), as surly as salvation came with regeneration.

(inserted from another section): God's power is known best within the ability to keep one apart from being "in the flesh (Rom 8:9) while the flesh is in us. Guiltless but not sinless, a loving miracle.

"Come with the resurrection"? While the state of our new born again nature will remain the same upon the death of this body, it must be actually righteous and holy. Revelation 22:11. Our nature has nothing to do with our body.

I believe God leaves the old man within us when He implants the new man (old and new natures) for the same reason He has allowed it originally, which is to cause man to require salvation (draw us to Him), as without it God would not eternally indwell us by His Spirit--something which would not have been established with Adam and Eve and their progeny.

"Require us to draw us to Him"? The new nature already does that naturally.

Thus freedom from sin is not the absence of its presence nor of its effects, but from that which presently disallows union and fellowship with God--not sin but guilt from sin; and not commissions of sinning but from desiring to sin, for where one's desire is, there is there heart, "For where your treasure (what we desire or "treasure") is, there will your heart be also" (Mat 6:21).

"Not sin, but guilt from sin; and not commissions of sinning, but from desiring to sin"? You can sin and not feel guilty about it??? Just the opposite. If you go against your conscience where the Holy Spirit will dwell, you cannot sin without feeling guilt. Only those devoid of the Spirit will love to sin and enjoy it without feeling guilt in their conscience.

For example, we will not live perfect lives in our walk, i.e. 1Th 5:12-22 cannot be practically maintained all the time, but the desire to maintain it is there all the time, and this is the issue, because it causes us to depend only on God and not self or others.

"For example, we will not live perfect lives in our walk"? That is a defeatist statement of many denominations from the Reformation, as if it is a fact for everyone. That is not true that we WILL, as if the power of Jesus is weak, and cannot make us strong. We are to continually walk in the Spirit, and correct those who wander off the path to get back into the Spirit, for only those who endure to the end in that state will be saved.

Though believers still sin, I don't believe they can ever again desire to sin--being reborn, and God "working" in us the desire to do His pleasure (Phl 2:13). Thus, only unregenerate will desire to "yield" to sin, which means to willingly perform sin. To me, the mentioning of the do's and don'ts in Scripture are to identify the spiritual and natural man.

Those who are walking in the Spirit can still commit trespasses, that as long as we are forgiving our brethren their trespasses, ours will be automatically cleansed by our Advocate. Our Advocate will not cleanse willful sins of lawlessness, for they are of the devil, and must be repented from. If we quench the Spirit, Jesus is no longer our Advocate, but only while we are in the Spirit. 1 John 1:7

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thanks for the clarification, and I like all you've shared, though for me much of it is in a different understanding than most. To me there is a difference between true freedom from sin and complete freedom from sin, as the latter condition will without fail come with the resurrection (no more old man and old body), as surly as salvation came with regeneration. I believe God leaves the old man within us when He implants the new man (old and new natures) for the same reason He has allowed it originally, which is to cause man to require salvation (draw us to Him), as without it God would not eternally indwell us by His Spirit--something which would not have been established with Adam and Eve and their progeny.

Thus freedom from sin is not the absence of its presence nor of its effects, but from that which presently disallows union and fellowship with God--not sin but guilt from sin; and not commissions of sinning but from desiring to sin, for where one's desire is, there is there heart, "For where your treasure (what we desire or "treasure") is, there will your heart be also" (Mat 6:21). God's power is known best within the ability to keep one apart from being "in the flesh (Rom 8:9) while the flesh is in us. Guiltless but not sinless, a loving miracle.


I think you bring up an important issue in discussing how we respond to the Spirit of God while we are maturing in Christ (Eph 4:15). Quenching the Spirit is something only those reborn do--the unsaved being without Him. As we mature in Christ we will at times miss the Spirit's guidance and enablements on many things, but quenching Him is always a temporal action done in ignorance and sin, as is anything that can interrupt, but never hinder His work in us. As long as we're on the earth there will be interruptions (moments of distractions) between us and God, but they will never hinder Him to eventually bringing us to where He wants us in this life. For example, we will not live perfect lives in our walk, i.e. 1Th 5:12-22 cannot be practically maintained all the time, but the desire to maintain it is there all the time, and this is the issue, because it causes us to depend only on God and not self or others.


Though believers still sin, I don't believe they can ever again desire to sin--being reborn, and God "working" in us the desire to do His pleasure (Phl 2:13). Thus, only unregenerate will desire to "yield" to sin, which means to willingly perform sin. To me, the mentioning of the do's and don'ts in Scripture are to identify the spiritual and natural man.

You seem like a very compassionate person, but only pandering to the unsaved, or those who are trying to be Christlike in their own power, which is works. What you are preaching is not strengthening the Spirit-filled to grow in true stature, but telling them they cannot be strong even with the Spirit. A lie.

Refocus your ministry.

 

[Netchaplain]

"Come with the resurrection"? While the state of our new born again nature will remain the same upon the death of this body, it must be actually righteous and holy. Revelation 22:11. Our nature has nothing to do with our body.

I agree, our new body will not be affected by our new nature, like our present body is affected by our old nature. Presently we're not completely free from all sin because of the yet indwelling of the old nature. Latter we'll be completely free from sin.

"Require us to draw us to Him"? The new nature already does that naturally.

Through faith and the Word, and the continuing "infirmities" and "trials" that arise because of the sin nature, we continue to learn more about fellowship in drawing ever closer to God by His Spirit using the new nature, i.e. we keep learning about our faith and fellowship with God until we leave here, and faith is no more used.

"Not sin, but guilt from sin; and not commissions of sinning, but from desiring to sin"? You can sin and not feel guilty about it??? Just the opposite. If you go against your conscience where the Holy Spirit will dwell, you cannot sin without feeling guilt. Only those devoid of the Spirit will love to sin and enjoy it without feeling guilt in their conscience.

Yes, and this is the sense in what I mean being free from; not from sin itself but from its guilt. Sin not having "dominion" over us doesn't mean not sinning, but not desiring or willfully sinning. Some have the thought that sin not having dominion over you means it cannot cause you to sin anymore, but this is not the meaning, because sinning continues as long as we are on the earth and possess the old man.

"For example, we will not live perfect lives in our walk"? That is a defeatist statement, as if it is a fact for everyone. That is not true that we WILL. We are to continually walk in the Spirit, and correct those who wander off the path to get back into the Spirit, for only those who endure to the end in that state will be saved.

We would have to be absented of the sin nature to be able to always "walk in the Spirit." I believe the issue is that we will always desire to walk in the Spirit, because of the old man being in us. The perfection we have in us is our salvation, the Spirit, and our new nature of Christ. We have nothing from ourselves which is perfect, but we will be perfect latter.

Those who are walking in the Spirit can still commit trespasses,

True, but I think while we're walking in the Spirit we are not sinning, and that it's the sin nature from which we are continually forgiven, the sinning merely shows we have a sin nature. Thus, before our rebirth guilt was incurred, not from sinning but from possessing the source of the sin (old man).

 

[Netchaplain]

You seem like a very compassionate person, but only pandering to the unsaved, or those who are trying to be Christlike in their own power, which is works. What you are preaching is not strengthening the Spirit-filled to grow in true stature, but telling them they cannot be strong even with the Spirit. A lie.

Refocus your ministry.

It's okay, but it appears we are not understanding one another enough. Concerning being strong, it depends in who we are trying to be strong--self or the Lord.

Sorry that are understandings are so different from one another, and God's blessings to us both!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I agree, our new body will not be affected by our new nature, like our present body is affected by our old nature. Presently we're not completely free from all sin because of the yet indwelling of the old nature. Latter we'll be completely free from sin.

NO, NO, NO! You don't agree at all. Our new nature is not affected at all by our old body. It seems you don't know what being born again to be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE is all about. If we have the new nature we don't have to pander to the old nature at all. You are a dear, sweet chaplain, and maybe you are somewhere where it is very dark, like a prison or somewhere, where you have to get down to their level, but Paul tells us this fact: we are dead to sin. And unlike what you are doing, Paul tells us to also reckon ourselves dead to sin (Romans 6) Chaplain, you are doing the opposite. Preach victory, not defeat!

Through faith and the Word, and the continuing "infirmities" and "trials" that arise because of the sin nature, we continue to learn more about fellowship in drawing ever closer to God by His Spirit using the new nature, i.e. we keep learning about our faith and fellowship with God until we leave here, and faith is no more used.

For the most part I agree, except our infirmities and trials help strengthen our faith in our new nature, and they are not because of the sin nature. They take us from glory to glory, not from weakness to strength. Where do you get these ideas if not from the Reformation, the dead church age of Sardis.

Yes, and this is the sense in what I mean being free from; not from sin itself but from its guilt. Sin not having "dominion" over us doesn't mean not sinning, but not desiring or willfully sinning. Some have the thought that sin not having dominion over you means it cannot cause you to sin anymore, but this is not the meaning, because sinning continues as long as we are on the earth and possess the old man.

Again, we are free from sin, in fact, as Jesus said, free indeed! 1 John 3:5-6 "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." This is the opposite of what you are preaching.

1 John 3:5 is meant in the context of 1 John 3:4: willful sins of lawlessness/willful wickedness. If you mean we don't commit willful committing sins unto death, then I agree. Because trespasses are still sins, though NOT unto death. But you do not make distinctions very clearly, as if "sin is sin," like some teach. It isn't according to how God sees lawlessness vs. unintentional trespasses. Sins unto death vs. sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. Verse 18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." You are not preaching this truth.

We would have to be absented of the sin nature to be able to always "walk in the Spirit."

Exactly, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that powerful that we no longer have the desires of the old man, but act according to the new nature, making it easy to stay in the Spirit. But this you don't seem to believe.

I believe the issue is that we will always desire to walk in the Spirit, because of the old man being in us.

What? Just the opposite. The desire to walk in the Spirit comes from the new nature, not the old.

The perfection we have in us is our salvation, the Spirit, and our new nature of Christ. We have nothing from ourselves which is perfect, but we will be perfect latter.

We cannot wait until "latter." Christ has given us His powerful Holy Spirit to make us righteous and holy NOW. This is a must, because without holiness, no man shall see God." Hebrews 12:14. And Revelation 22:11 shows us that in whatever state we die, we will remain, whether in heaven or in hell. Our body must put on immortality to match our born again spirit/nature.

True, but I think while we're walking in the Spirit we are not sinning, and that it's the sin nature from which we are continually forgiven, the sinning merely shows we have a sin nature. Thus, before our rebirth guilt was incurred, not from sinning but from possessing the source of the sin (old man).

It seems to me that you believing all your sins: past, present, and future - are continually being cleansed. That is blatant error. Only our past sins are cleansed, and then we are given power to no longer sin.

It seems you are believing that Romans 7 is a Christian and his struggles. NO! Romans 8 shows us that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ FREES US FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH - THE OLD NATURE. This is a common mistake even among pastors, as is believing 1 John 1:8 is about Christians also. NO! 1 John 1:8-9 is (8) mankind before repentance (9) what mankind must do to become saved. Otherwise you have John contradicting himself in chapters 3 and 5.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's okay, but it appears we are not understanding one another enough. Concerning being strong, it depends in who we are trying to be strong--self or the Lord.

Sorry that are understandings are so different from one another, and God's blessings to us both!

Don't misunderstand me. We cannot be strong in our old nature - that is self and works. But WE CAN be strong in the Lord with Him dwelling inside us giving us the desire. We then just do what comes naturally to us from the divine nature.

 

[Netchaplain]

NO, NO, NO! You don't agree at all. Our new nature is not affected at all by our old body.

Still looks mixed up, you may be reading my comment wrong. I didn't ever say our new nature is affected by our old body, but that our old nature affects our old body. Our new nature doesn't affect our old or new body!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Still looks mixed up, you may be reading my comment wrong. I didn't ever say our new nature is affected by our old body, but that our old nature affects our old body. Our new nature doesn't affect our old or new body!

It looks like I did misread that. Yes, our body and our nature are two different things. Isn't that what you are saying?

Our old nature doesn't need to affect our new nature. IOW, we can stay in our new nature, never having to be affected by our old nature. That does take time and maturity, but to say it isn't possible until after we are dead would be wrong. What say you?

 

[marks]

True, but I think while we're walking in the Spirit we are not sinning, and that it's the sin nature from which we are continually forgiven, the sinning merely shows we have a sin nature. Thus, before our rebirth guilt was incurred, not from sinning but from possessing the source of the sin (old man).

Well said!

:)

I think this is an important point. We are condemned in Adam, and not as if each person will stand or fall on their own. Either we are in Adam, and share is death, or in Christ, and share His life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It looks like I did misread that. Yes, our body and our nature are two different things. Isn't that what you are saying?

Our old nature doesn't need to affect our new nature. IOW, we can stay in our new nature, never having to be affected by our old nature. That does take time and maturity, but to say it isn't possible until after we are dead would be wrong. What say you?

As NC mentioned . . .

The flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, so you cannot do what you want (Gal 5), what does this mean to you?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

As NC mentioned . . .

The flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, so you cannot do what you want (Gal 5), what does this mean to you?

Much love!

It is important to stay in the Spirit, because if you start opening the door to the flesh, each time it will be harder to close, because hearing the Spirit becomes duller each time - that is when you've given place to the war, but you can prevent it. Best to not open the door at all.

Resist the devil and he will flee from you. And the more you resist the devil, he loses more and more power. Then 1 John 5:18 become true.

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." That is true deliverance (OP title)

 

[Netchaplain]

It looks like I did misread that. Yes, our body and our nature are two different things. Isn't that what you are saying?

Our old nature doesn't need to affect our new nature. IOW, we can stay in our new nature, never having to be affected by our old nature. That does take time and maturity, but to say it isn't possible until after we are dead would be wrong. What say you?

Amen, our new nature is permanent and the old will pass. God doesn't ever consider us after the old nature, because though it is in us we are not in it (Rom 8:9).

 

[Netchaplain]

Well said!
I think this is an important point. We are condemned in Adam, and not as if each person will stand or fall on their own. Either we are in Adam, and share is death, or in Christ, and share His life.

Much love!

Also well said, and thanks for your encouraging replies!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Amen, our new nature is permanent and the old will pass. God doesn't ever consider us after the old nature, because though it is in us we are not in it (Rom 8:9).

I can agree to that. But even more that we must not only abide in Jesus, but He must be abiding in us as well. After all, Jesus is not just our Savior that cleanses us of our past sins and gives us entry into heaven; but Jesus is the Christ, that takes away our desire to sin in the present and future by His Spirit creating in us a new nature. Daniel 9:24. That is what I hope you will someday agree to, and not that He just takes away our guilt. That to me means we can sin and not feel guilty about it. That is so far from holiness it makes the angels cry, and made Jude write that some turn the grace of God into licentiousness.

1 John 3:24 " Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

 

[Netchaplain]

I can agree to that. But even more that we must not only abide in Jesus, but He must be abiding in us as well.

I like your replies here! My primary encouragement is knowing that those who are reborn are permanently kept abiding in Christ by the Father who has established us in salvation (Phl 1:6).

After all, Jesus is not just our Savior that cleanses us of our past sins and gives us entry into heaven; but Jesus is the Christ, that takes away our desire to sin in the present and future by His Spirit creating in us a new nature. That is what I hope you will someday agree to, and not that He just takes away our guilt. That to me means we can sin and not feel guilty about it.

The permanent removal of guilt is always the best blessing because it allows us to fellowship with God and with one another. Annulling sin's desire in us via the new nature frees us to be able to know the peace and love of God as our sole sustenance.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!