What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

[amadeus]

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific if you don't want your point to be lost on me.

And I was also agreeing with you.

I was agreeing as much as I was able. I already explained where I was on this. I only have so many words and only so much strength. I am tired and each time I answer a question and you miss my point, it is because of things in your understanding versus my understanding that cause communication problems.

 

[Enoch111]

Therefore in saying that if you do not believe that I am the Son of God, you will die in your sins, He is saying, If you do not believe that I am God (the everlasting Father) you will die in your sins.

This is exactly according to Scripture. How can anyone claim to put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior without genuinely believing that He is God who became Man to die for his or her sins? An angel could not die for the sins of men, and there are no other gods beside the one true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

The Jehovah's Witnesses deceptively made Christ into a lesser god in John 1:1, because they had to make a choice (1) either Jesus is God (in which case their whole theology falls apart), or (2) Jesus is a lesser god, which means that there are many other gods (Polytheism) and thus the JWs are not Christians but cultists.

Here is how John 8:24 (and several other passages in John) should have been properly translated (without "he" in italics):
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

So unless a person believes that Jesus is "I AM" he remains in his sins, and will die unsaved. What was Jesus talking about? He was going all the way back to Exodus chapter 3.

EXODUS 3
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And He said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God...
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. [Note: Jesus is the same I AM]
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

 

[amadeus]

God doesn't get any glory if you are lacking in the ability to communicate what He wants you to say.

What He wants me to say? I believe that I have said what He wanted me to say and yet you press me because you don't understand or disagree. I always remember if you do not, that only God gives any real increase. He may us me or you to do it, but pushing on it don't make it happen.

 

[Waiting on him]

God the Father calls the Son God. And Jesus is the Son of God.

Not to mention there are many passages in the word that teach us that Jesus is the Lord (God).

He also gives me the power to be the son of God, does this mean I'm God?

 

[Angelina]

That is not true according to the scripture at hand.

Really? ~ does this sound like something a gentile believer would relate to who has come from out of the world into Christ?

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hebrews 1:8-9
"But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.'”

I think it says the deity of Christ is evident not just through His throne, His scepter, and His kingdom, but through His anointing.

 

[Angelina]

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

now if someone say, that's not in the original text, well lets make it simple, John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

and the Lord said, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
eternal life is salvation for us.

PICJAG.

I'm referring to the verses he has quoted. Not other verses. John 8

 

[Waiting on him]

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

Where does the scripture read that a person must believe that Jesus is God and equal to his Father in order Not to die in his sins? If a man is in error with regard to the nature of God, will he be lost in the end for that reason alone? That people draw different conclusions based on the very same verses of scripture should tell even a reasonable unsaved man something.

Who is supposed to be leading us into all Truth? If we love the Truth without knowing it all clearly are we then lost?

I've always wondered why obedience was something Jesus had to learn?

 

[justbyfaith]

What is essential is for a person to sincerely try to do according to what he sincerely believes is what God wants him to do.

No, we are not saved by our works. We are saved through placing our faith in the right object of faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Really? ~ does this sound like something a gentile believer would relate to who has come from out of the world into Christ?

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation

Does Jesus specifically address the scribes and Pharisees as being scribes and Pharisees in John 8:24? I don't think so.

He is making a doctrinal statement that applies to all. Where in the passage does it say that Gentiles are excluded?

 

[justbyfaith]

What He wants me to say? I believe that I have said what He wanted me to say and yet you press me because you don't understand or disagree. I always remember if you do not, that only God gives any real increase. He may us me or you to do it, but pushing on it don't make it happen.

I was agreeing as much as I was able. I already explained where I was on this. I only have so many words and only so much strength. I am tired and each time I answer a question and you miss my point, it is because of things in your understanding versus my understanding that cause communication problems.

Well, glory be to God then that the communication between us is limited.

 

[justbyfaith]

He also gives me the power to be the son of God, does this mean I'm God?

"a" son of God, small "s".

 

[Waiting on him]

"a" son of God, small "s".

That's interesting this has been one of the topics of a discussion I've been having with others.

Please enlighten me

Luke 16:25 KJV
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's interesting this has been one of the topics of a discussion I've been having with others.

Please enlighten me

Luke 16:25 KJV
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

I'm not following your line of reasoning; I need more info.

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm not following your line of reasoning; I need more info.

Take note of the large S in the scripture quoted?

 

[Angelina]

Does Jesus specifically address the scribes and Pharisees as being scribes and Pharisees in John 8:24? I don't think so.

He is making a doctrinal statement that applies to all. Where in the passage does it say that Gentiles are excluded?

You really believe then, that when Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, he's not actually targeting them but rather all people?

*Pharisee: members of a party that believed in resurrection and in following legal traditions that were ascribed not to the Bible but to “the traditions of the fathers.

*Gentile believers do not have the above traditions.

 

[farouk]

His views are radical but he is not a saboteur imo....there have been some true saboteurs on this forum and they are no longer here, thank God.

The Deity of Christ is indeed fundamental...

 

[justbyfaith]

Take note of the large S in the scripture quoted?

It was at the beginning of a quote and therefore a sentence.

 

[justbyfaith]

You really believe then, that when Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, he's not actually targeting them but rather all people?

*Pharisee: members of a party that believed in resurrection and in following legal traditions that were ascribed not to the Bible but to “the traditions of the fathers.

*Gentile believers do not have the above traditions.

If He is making a general statement and not specifically addressing them as scribes and Pharisees, I believe that 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that His words are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

Even the things spoken directly to the scribes and Pharisees may apply to any one of us...you have to search your own heart to determine whether it is speaking to you or not.

 

[Willie T]

It was at the beginning of a quote and therefore a sentence.

Reading along on this thread, I was beginning to wonder if anyone would notice that. And also that often when a son is addressed, the word is used as a proper noun and naturally is capitalized, just as their name would be.