What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

[Angelina]

He is making a doctrinal statement that applies to all. Where in the passage does it say that Gentiles are excluded?

Right here ~ .Matthew 15 tells us that Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, not for Gentile believers, however he did help this one due to her faith in him.. 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”

 

[justbyfaith]

Right here ~ .Matthew 15 tells us that Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, not for Gentile believers, however he did help this one due to her faith in him.. 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”

So Jesus' words don't apply to Gentiles?

Hogwash!

 

[Angelina]

I don't agree with the emphasis you are placing on this verse because again, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees but what I understand is that you are saying is "All men must take what he said to the Pharisees, to heart" and It's not true.

Brother... this is the original bone of contention, right here. We are not Pharisees

 

[Angelina]

So Jesus' words don't apply to Gentiles?

Hogwash!

Missed my point again. It is you who are stating that what ever Jesus said to the Pharisees were for all people, yet Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, not for all people. Kapeesh!!

 

[Angelina]

So Jesus' words don't apply to Gentiles?

Hogwash!

Well you are saying that Jesus words relate to the gentiles even though he was speaking to the Pharisees....the ministry to the gentiles was given by Jesus to Paul....

 

[Stumpmaster]

I've always wondered why obedience was something Jesus had to learn?

Hi Waiting on Him.
It wasn't that Jesus had ever been disobedient and didn't know what it was to obey in the general sense but rather He had not had to suffer as a man, so what this verse is referring to is not the difference between being naughty or well-behaved, but the experience of suffering for the greater good that requires discipline, dedication, and determination. To suffer all the things Jesus did as a man for the purpose of becoming the Author of eternal salvation, required Him to experience things which He had not previously endured, and so He learned in the sense that He gained knowledge and experience of the obedience that required Him to suffer.
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

 

[farouk]

Brother... this is the original bone of contention, right here. We are not Pharisees

@Angelina Do you think verses can be applied to others beyond their immediate context, especially since it's such a vital doctrine?

Or put differently, How can anyone believer in the Saviour, if the Person supposedly is not God?

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina Do you think verses can be applied to others beyond their immediate context, especially since it's such a vital doctrine?

Or put differently, How can anyone believer in the Saviour, if the Person supposedly is not God?

Yes brother farouk, I do but you have to be careful in certain circumstances, not to take on something that belonged specifically to another group of people. In this case John 8. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees. The issue I have here is that the brother said back yonder, that you are not saved if you do not accept the deity of Christ.

 

[farouk]

The issue I have here is that the brother said back yonder, that you are not saved if you do not accept the deity of Christ.

Well, Biblically speaking, how can one be saved if there is this unbelief?

 

[Angelina]

My issue brother is salvation. Here is the original conversation.

↑Justbyfaith said:

It teaches that Jesus is God, to put it simply.
And this is also an essential for salvation, John 8:24.
See also John 8:58, John 8:59 with John 10:31-33 with these compared to Exodus 3:14.
The Pharisees picked up stones to stone Jesus because He claimed to be God.

my reply was ~

The above points are not essential for salvation. These are the only requirements for salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9, Romans

10:13.

 

[Angelina]

Hebrews 1:8-9
"But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.'”

I love this verse and agree with the Original poster. Post #2 I don't agree with.

 

[farouk]

I've always wondered why obedience was something Jesus had to learn?

The practical experience was learned, while omniscience was always there.

 

[farouk]

He also gives me the power to be the son of God, does this mean I'm God?

John 1 speaks of 'power to become the sons of God', i.e., children of God after the new birth.

 

[amadeus]

I've always wondered why obedience was something Jesus had to learn?

And consider also...

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

 

[amadeus]

No, we are not saved by our works. We are saved through placing our faith in the right object of faith.

Salvation? Salvation is the wrong focus. It is the wrong goal. God loves us and He wants us to love Him rather than all of the blessings including unending Life. God looks at our heart to see what our real purpose is in the way we use everything that He has provided. Do we really love Him? Would we love Him if there were no Life with no end promised? Would we really like to be willing to give up everything we have just because we love Him?

 

[Waiting on him]

And consider also...

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Good catch.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well you are saying that Jesus words relate to the gentiles

Yes, I am.

If Jesus' words do not apply to Gentiles, then they are not profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, or for instruction in righteousness; unless you are specifically talking to a Pharisaical Jew.

I don't believe that (see 2 Timothy 3:16).

You can reject the truth if you want; you have every right to do so in this country.

I'm not certain that it will bode well with you on your day of judgment.

In saying that the Deity of Christ is not an essential doctrine, you are giving leeway to people who do not want to believe in that doctrine. Whereas if they understand that it is an essential, they may be motivated to seek out an understanding of it in the word; and not to reject it. But if they do not see it as an essential, they may consider that it's not important; and will die in their sins because they did not believe in it nor seek to be able to do so.

Thus you will be responsible for their damnation.

What will you say to the Lord on your day of judgment when this is brought to bear on your life?

Where in the passage that includes John 8:24 does the scripture exclude Gentiles concerning the application of what the Lord said?

 

[justbyfaith]

And consider also...

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Of course this pertains to His humanity.

For in the doctrine of the hypostatic union, the Lord Jesus is 100% Man and 100% God.

In His humanity Jesus is even less than the Father.

For in Philippians 2, He emptied Himself of many of the attributes of Deity in what is called kenosis.

In this, He did not cease to be God.

But He took on an added human nature which by definition does not have such infinite abilities as Omniscience and Omnipresence. Because a human body is finite.

 

[justbyfaith]

yet Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, not for all people.

Do you believe Jesus died for all people; or that He died only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

 

[justbyfaith]

You can reject the truth if you want; you have every right to do so in this country.

@Angelina

I hadn't noticed that you live in New Zealand; maybe you don't have that right; for all I know.