"I don't like even being around them"

[Justadude]

If that is really what think you see or what you expect

It's not what I expected, but it's what I've seen. You were a big part of that.

I again wonder why you are serious about continuing here unless you are openly hopeful of finding someone either very weak or not sincere in his espoused beliefs.

I initially came here to have discussions, but as you and other Christians made clear, that's not going to happen. So I either have to adapt and stay, or just move on. We'll see how things go.

 

[amadeus]

It's not what I expected, but it's what I've seen. You were a big part of that.

I initially came here to have discussions, but as you and other Christians made clear, that's not going to happen. So I either have to adapt and stay, or just move on. We'll see how things go.

If you have a thick skin you may be able to stay, but know that there will always be some who cannot do anything but attack where you are and some won't be very much like Jesus when they do it. I wish that were no so, but that is how people are... including many bearing that Christian label.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

And that was reflected when you were clearly expecting to preach at me and once I began providing feedback you got rather upset.

The expected framework from you and other Christians here: "Sit down, shut up, and let me preach at you. I expect you to be interested in what I say, but I have zero interest in hearing anything from you."

Any worthy Christian knows where you are coming from bro. you are simple and I understand your lot.
You are the one who is clearly ignorant here.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

"Whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council, but whosoever shall say, 'Thou fool', shall be in danger of hell fire." Mt. 5:22).

Fact is such as he is not our Christian brother at all ?

Not everyone is your brother you know. the new age may peddle that all are your brother line and in one sense they are but the New age are shallow on the subject lacking depth because they do not care for reality, much like a drug addict, as they preach a spiritual concept that is void of the Holy Spirit, it's witchcraft detached from God and it's mans works, they claim to be bring in the new age or 2ed coming.
There is one who seeks genuinely with faith in Jesus, but also the one who is ignorant not genuine seeking that s totally different, what the Biblical understanding of Raca is about it's like saying rack off to one who is genuine seeking ? do you understand that.

But if one is not a true Christian brother and is against us ?
Remember for 2000 years people were and are kicked out of the Church you know, for working strife trying to mislead others. they are a curse ! I know such people and their is no point in bothering to talk to them at all about Christianity, I found this out the hard way of trying with a mate from 1994 to 2017 only to understand that he has it all totally wrong and the more you try to explain the more they get it wrong and in fact they never have the slightest willingness to learn or understand at all and will just go barking up the wrong tree on anything that you have said and they will totally miss represent everything that you have said. if I say white they will say I said black, that's the gist of it.
Such people have no Grace, they are like a pack of dogs that only look after number one themselves and will only work to take all for what they can. they in fact think that it's you who is the fool for not seeing it from their point of view, not to mention totally despise you for such.


Fool is mentioned many times in the Bible as well and their is noting wrong with calling a fool a fool if it's true. the fool in this case is about trying to undermine ones faith, that's the point of why the hellfire is as such. a one who is not a seeking Christian is such a one who will cause hellfire. as you may get a sniping little rat who is barking mad sniping at God out of such a one. such maybe because the good puppy took it the wrong way or the bad puppy deserved the rap over the nose. one must understand what is what.

Hey I seen people come to Church being totally only wanting to cause strife, bagging it all and being a pain with bad intentions trying to get on to girls and even pick fights or stand over people.

 

[Justadude]

If you have a thick skin you may be able to stay, but know that there will always be some who cannot do anything but attack where you are and some won't be very much like Jesus when they do it. I wish that were no so, but that is how people are... including many bearing that Christian label.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I have thick skin. I don't take anything in online forums very seriously.

 

[amadeus]

It has nothing to do with whether or not I have thick skin. I don't take anything in online forums very seriously.

Well some people take everything pertaining to God seriously. But... some may be like you say that you are.

 

[Justadude]

Well some people take everything pertaining to God seriously. But... some may be like you say that you are.

Again, not the point. You brought up the notion of me needing "thick skin", so my comment was specifically about that.

About a decade ago I belonged to another religiously-themed forum. One of the "Christians" there, who presented "herself" as a young handicapped Asian woman, would start lots of threads about various Christian topics, mostly scriptural. Whenever she was challenged or questioned on her positions she would play the victim and basically hide behind her disability. She would also post accounts of hospital stays and make personal pleas for people to pray for her. Some of the Christians became rather attached to her.

It was eventually revealed that "she" was actually 60-something white male with no disabilities. He even confessed. Many of the Christians in that forum were devastated.

That taught me a very valuable lesson about online forums.....don't assume people are who they say they are, and don't take the goings-on in the forums too seriously.

 

[MattMooradian]

Fact is such as he is not our Christian brother at all ?

So, its fine to call non-Christians names? Oh. Now I understand where you are coming from.

 

[bbyrd009]

But to be clear, I'm not interested in debating the existence of something called a "god" if it can't be defined in a meaningful way.

ha well yet any "god" that could be meaningfully defined by a human, there's issues with that though see

 

[bbyrd009]

It's not what I expected, but it's what I've seen. You were a big part of that.


I initially came here to have discussions, but as you and other Christians made clear, that's not going to happen. So I either have to adapt and stay, or just move on. We'll see how things go.

as to that i would encourage you to continue in your convictions here without really expecting any human encouragement or agreement, as many are "read only" so your audience, who they are etc, might be kinda hard to define? Iow those engaging (or trolling) you may not necessarily be your target audience, you might have a great following of silent ppl w/o realizing it?

plus imo anyway you make pious ppl look bad, and thats always good imo

 

[MattMooradian]

I initially came here to have discussions, but as you and other Christians made clear, that's not going to happen. So I either have to adapt and stay, or just move on. We'll see how things go.

Hey! Justadude, please do not leave this forum. You seem to be one of the few people here that attempts to keep an open mind and offers an opposing viewpoint. "One man sharpens another."

 

[Justadude]

ha well yet any "god" that could be meaningfully defined by a human, there's issues with that though see

Doesn't that then make the question of whether or not "gods" exist meaningless? If we can't even say what it is, how can we determine if it exists?

as to that i would encourage you to continue in your convictions here without really expecting any human encouragement or agreement

I never expected either. I just expected some back and forth dialog. Instead, this feels like church, where I'm expected to sit down, be quiet, and have people preach at me.

as many are "read only" so your audience, who they are etc, might be kinda hard to define? Iow those engaging (or trolling) you may not necessarily be your target audience, you might have a great following of silent ppl w/o realizing it?

plus imo anyway you make pious ppl look bad, and thats always good imo

LOL! I'd find the concept of lurkers more persuasive if I actually heard from any.

 

[Justadude]

Hey! Justadude, please do not leave this forum. You seem to be one of the few people here that attempts to keep an open mind and offers an opposing viewpoint. "One man sharpens another."

Thanks so much for the encouragement.

I don't expect to up and leave, I just have to re-think how I approach things here.

 

[bbyrd009]

Doesn't that then make the question of whether or not "gods" exist meaningless?

ha ok well we are reinventing the wheel here i guess, plus the definition for "exist" is kind of subjective i guess, does "existence" imply that one could provide "objective evidence" for that "existence" or no? So imo anyway, "existence" is not a very good benchmark for what we should be able to admit is basically "the unknown?"

Do ghosts "exist?" Does anything exist that we are not able to objectively define? The Bible used the argument of "wind" for that in ancient times, but i guess we know what the wind is made out of now, so that doesnt work so good, but we are still only aware of like 5% of everything that "exists," right, the rest we call "dark"

If we can't even say what it is, how can we determine if it exists?

i would say that Yah does not "exist," according to the definition, but i guess that is not very satisfying to ppl, and "Unknown God" apparently even less so, but i would encourage a contemplation along those lines rather than some Old White Guy with a Long White Beard or whatever, yeh.

But i think the whole concept of theos the way the ancients understood it has been poorly translated to us at best, not even sure how the Bible can make "God" out of both that root and elohim myself, but anyway Yah said "I said 'you are elohim'" so that prolly bears some pertinence here? You exist, right?

So why all the determination if "God" exists? To identify objects for "worship" more or less, right? Only by that we usually mean "obeisance" rather than "taking care of widows and orphans," so imo anyway that becomes exposed for what it is on another level, as i don't think Yah cares even a little for our frankly pagan "worship services," your gatherings do more harm than good

I never expected either. I just expected some back and forth dialog. Instead, this feels like church, where I'm expected to sit down, be quiet, and have people preach at me.

i guess that is why Paul studied by himself for three years first, and recommended we do the same? But my recommendation these days would be to run from anyone who speaks in definitives, as if they knew, anyway? Which granted is going to describe most "believers" that one will be interacting with, as i guess "eating the manna" is not so easy for everyone as it was for you

LOL! I'd find the concept of lurkers more persuasive if I actually heard from any.

ah well we do have a bunch, we even have a tracker for whose been on a thread, well, plus the "viewer" count which you can see from that that there are way many more readers than commenters, but ill post a link to the other here too, assuming i can still find it

Current Visitors | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board but i was looking for something else, ill keep looking.
Can't find it, basically the same info presented diff tho

 

[Philip James]

Therefore, a quantum fluctuation meets all of your criteria. Yet I doubt you would refer to it as "god".

Hello dude,

I'm not sure that it does. While I am certainly no expert (physics is kind of a hobby for me) and im glad you want to leave the math to the pros (whew!), i am, at least, familiar with QM.

So correct me if Im wrong, but it is my understanding that a quantum fracture occurs in space and time.. That is, it has a beginning and an ending.

This would preclude it from being the first cause but may be evidence that the first cause continues to actively maintain the universe.

Are you suggesting the universe itself, is a quantum fracture that just hasnt ended yet?

That ,to me, just seems to beg the question: what caused the fracture?

But to be clear, I'm not interested in debating the existence of something called a "god" if it can't be defined in a meaningful way.

Well that's just it. It cant be defined by us because we have no knowledge of it except that which we see around us.

So my next point, if you acknowledge that it is rational to assume there must be a first cause, would be:

That although the beauty and order and magnitude of the universe can suggest something of the state of this 'being' that is the first cause,

We ourselves have no reference frame with which to define it and therefore cant.


Peace!

 

[Justadude]

ha ok well we are reinventing the wheel here i guess, plus the definition for "exist" is kind of subjective i guess, does "existence" imply that one could provide "objective evidence" for that "existence" or no? So imo anyway, "existence" is not a very good benchmark for what we should be able to admit is basically "the unknown?"

Do ghosts "exist?" Does anything exist that we are not able to objectively define? The Bible used the argument of "wind" for that in ancient times, but i guess we know what the wind is made out of now, so that doesnt work so good, but we are still only aware of like 5% of everything that "exists," right, the rest we call "dark"

I'm not interested in going down the path of solipsism, except to note how quick some theists are to go there, apparently without appreciating that doing so also negates the existence of their church, rituals, sacraments, etc.

i would say that Yah does not "exist," according to the definition, but i guess that is not very satisfying to ppl, and "Unknown God" apparently even less so, but i would encourage a contemplation along those lines rather than some Old White Guy with a Long White Beard or whatever, yeh.

But i think the whole concept of theos the way the ancients understood it has been poorly translated to us at best, not even sure how the Bible can make "God" out of both that root and elohim myself, but anyway Yah said "I said 'you are elohim'" so that prolly bears some pertinence here? You exist, right?

I suppose if gods don't exist, that renders the discussion moot, does it not?

So why all the determination if "God" exists? To identify objects for "worship" more or less, right? Only by that we usually mean "obeisance" rather than "taking care of widows and orphans," so imo anyway that becomes exposed for what it is on another level, as i don't think Yah cares even a little for our frankly pagan "worship services," your gatherings do more harm than good

Do you consider yourself more of a Deist?

i guess that is why Paul studied by himself for three years first, and recommended we do the same? But my recommendation these days would be to run from anyone who speaks in definitives, as if they knew, anyway? Which granted is going to describe most "believers" that one will be interacting with, as i guess "eating the manna" is not so easy for everyone as it was for you

I guess that would eliminate just about all Christians, eh?

ah well we do have a bunch, we even have a tracker for whose been on a thread, well, plus the "viewer" count which you can see from that that there are way many more readers than commenters, but ill post a link to the other here too, assuming i can still find it

Current Visitors | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board but i was looking for something else, ill keep looking.
Can't find it, basically the same info presented diff tho

I wonder how many of those are members who just aren't logged in?

 

[Justadude]

I'm not sure that it does. While I am certainly no expert (physics is kind of a hobby for me) and im glad you want to leave the math to the pros (whew!), i am, at least, familiar with QM.

So correct me if Im wrong, but it is my understanding that a quantum fracture occurs in space and time.. That is, it has a beginning and an ending.

Not in this case. Remember, space and time did not exist until after the big bang.

This would preclude it from being the first cause but may be evidence that the first cause continues to actively maintain the universe.

Are you suggesting the universe itself, is a quantum fracture that just hasnt ended yet?

No, not at all.

That ,to me, just seems to beg the question: what caused the fracture?

Remember, the fundamental aspect of QM is that events are uncaused. So a quantum fluctuation that triggered the BB would be itself, uncaused.

Well that's just it. It cant be defined by us because we have no knowledge of it except that which we see around us.

If you can't even say what something is, you can't determine if it exists or not.

So my next point, if you acknowledge that it is rational to assume there must be a first cause, would be:

That although the beauty and order and magnitude of the universe can suggest something of the state of this 'being' that is the first cause,

We ourselves have no reference frame with which to define it and therefore cant.

How is that different than something entirely made up?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So, its fine to call non-Christians names? Oh. Now I understand where you are coming from.

Jesus called them many things as well, you want me to remind you of such.
One has to be carful of such people as they will only try and undermine ones faith, they are like the weeds that only spring up and try to strangle.
Anyone who does not have the Holy Spirit is a curse to themselves and a blight to God.
It's bad enough to have lukewarm people of the Christian faith peddling their worldly trendy shallow religious dribble.

Old mate and such does not bother me, so long as they are genuine questioning a subject, as I do the same. it's fine to question anything. I did such with Christianity as I am very sceptical about anything myself, if I did not truly understand Christ Jesus I would not have the total faith in him that I have, I went to Church for many years and I had a faith that could maybe of been strangled by the weeds like most Christians are in that boat, because they have a shadow of doubt somewhere but when I was born again the weeds don't stand a chance of strangling my Faith in Jesus Christ.
I understand where most Christians who have faith are at and I understand where all they who are outside of Christ Jesus are at, they are no enigma to me, I know them better than they know themselves for they are fools as the Bible points this fact out.
I can look back on my days before I was born again and say that I was a fool or being lead astray by religious dribble that is not of Jesus Christ at all, but is only religious quackery. such is like trying to get a stuck stick out of the mud with such as they, Jesus said to come out from them, because religion will not save anyone, you need the power of the Holy Spirit within you to understand what is truly what.

Just remember that all people are religious in fact even the Atheist or what ever they may claim to be, just because they are ignorant of the fact does not make what they may claim to be so. that's mans works religion for ya, madness like a dog chasing it's tail, their is always some shadow boggy man in their midst.

Just look at the Jews back in the day, they had Jesus right in front of their nose, but they were to religious to see him, because they could not see the forest for the trees, one could say. they were mislead by religion ? religious works. one needs more than that, oh something that the builders rejected comes to mined ?

 

[amadeus]

Again, not the point. You brought up the notion of me needing "thick skin", so my comment was specifically about that.

About a decade ago I belonged to another religiously-themed forum. One of the "Christians" there, who presented "herself" as a young handicapped Asian woman, would start lots of threads about various Christian topics, mostly scriptural. Whenever she was challenged or questioned on her positions she would play the victim and basically hide behind her disability. She would also post accounts of hospital stays and make personal pleas for people to pray for her. Some of the Christians became rather attached to her.

It was eventually revealed that "she" was actually 60-something white male with no disabilities. He even confessed. Many of the Christians in that forum were devastated.

That taught me a very valuable lesson about online forums.....don't assume people are who they say they are, and don't take the goings-on in the forums too seriously.

Carry on with whatever your agenda is. You have not learned a thing.

 

[bbyrd009]

I suppose if gods don't exist, that renders the discussion moot, does it not?

well i guess that depends upon one's def of both "gods" and "exist"
i would say that Yah does not exist, yet is very real, whereas Zeus exists just fine--at least as a carving, somewhere--and is not "real" at all, or has no effect iow

Do you consider yourself more of a Deist?

if i consider myself anything, maybe, ya, or maybe a Yahwist; but there are ppl who use those labels that i wouldnt agree with many of their "beliefs" (absolute truths) either i guess

I guess that would eliminate just about all Christians, eh?

ha well you say that tic, but imo that is kinda by design seems like, at least according to my interp of the Bible? i mean we sure get enough warnings about those "in the camp" anyway. But also i think most ppl start there, esp in our society, where we are all raised to reason logically, and "socialism" is basically a dirty word, right; unless its bailouts for private corps anyway narf.

But we're all hugely codependent now, in the west, as Reggie et al are i guess busy demonstrating. Fwiw i can say from hard-won sales experience that believers are the best buyers, easiest to upsell, scaredest of FOMO, etc

I wonder how many of those are members who just aren't logged in?

my guess would be few to none, but idk really. I do know of at least a few members who log in but rarely post, for that you can check the "likes" page for names youve never heard of, i know one guy has been here for like 15 years with virtually no posts!