Passover vs Eucharist

[Grailhunter]

You are confusing the John 6 passage with the last supper. Nothing about Communion, in John 6. Again, you warp what I said. I didn't say his blood was not real. I said it symbolizes his sacrifice. If he spilt some blood, but didn't die, it would not have purchased our redemption.

Ohhh! I get it now! You can't read. You better get your care giver and get them to read that for you.

 

[Marymog]

I guess I expected some real interaction, not just quoted pieces of verses. Anyone can take snippets out of context and slap em down like playing cards, that is not rightly dividing the word.
Peter 3:21, NLT: "And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

What saves you? Your response to God, not the removal of dirt from being dunked.

Good point. Anyone can take snippets out of context. So lest put Peter 3 and the rest of Scripture in context on the matter of baptism with water.

he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight people, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

In summary: Water Baptism is not the removal of dirt from the body. Water baptism literally saves you (like the eight on the Ark) by remission and washing away of sins. When you are water baptized you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Jesus last instruction was that all are to be baptized. I presume you believe it is necessary to be obedient to Jesus?

So to answer your question: What saves you?

The remission of Sin and receiving of the Holy via water baptism AND Obedience to Christ.....Just like Scripture says.

So that covers what Scripture says about the necessity of baptism and how it saves you. Would you like to discuss The historical writings from your 1st and 2nd century Christian brothers and what they believed about baptism? Or would you like to continue to tell me what your 16th Christian brothers believe about baptism?

I love history soooo I would love to talk about our 1st and 2nd century brothers/sisters. I trust them more.

 

[Renniks]

Ohhh! I get it now! You can't read. You better get your care giver and get them to read that for you.

Insults only reveal your immaturity.

 

[Renniks]

he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight people, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

This only confirms what I said.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It's a figure, a symbol of our salvation, not salvation itself. Just like the figure of the ark is a picture of salvation. It's our answer to God which saves us, not the water.

 

[Renniks]

Good point. Anyone can take snippets out of context. So lest put Peter 3 and the rest of Scripture in context on the matter of baptism with water.

he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight people, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

In summary: Water Baptism is not the removal of dirt from the body. Water baptism literally saves you (like the eight on the Ark) by remission and washing away of sins. When you are water baptized you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Jesus last instruction was that all are to be baptized. I presume you believe it is necessary to be obedient to Jesus?

So to answer your question: What saves you?

The remission of Sin and receiving of the Holy via water baptism AND Obedience to Christ.....Just like Scripture says.

So that covers what Scripture says about the necessity of baptism and how it saves you. Would you like to discuss The historical writings from your 1st and 2nd century Christian brothers and what they believed about baptism? Or would you like to continue to tell me what your 16th Christian brothers believe about baptism?

I love history soooo I would love to talk about our 1st and 2nd century brothers/sisters. I trust them more.

1. Genesis 15:6: “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
2. Habakkuk 2:4: “Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”
3. Mark 1:15: “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
4. Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

(Notice that here again, it doesn't say he who isn't baptized with water isn't saved, but he who doesn't believe)

1. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
2. Luke 7:50: “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
3. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
4. John 1:12: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
5. John 314,)15: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.“
6. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
7. John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
8. John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
9. John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
10. John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
11. John 6:40: “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. “
12. John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
13. John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
14. John 8:24: “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
15. John 11:25: “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
16. John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
17. John 12:46: “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”
18. John 16:27: “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”
19. John 20:31: “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
20. Acts 2:21: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
21. Acts 5:14: “And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)”
22. Acts 8:12: “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
23. Acts 8:13: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Insults only reveal your immaturity.

I cannot help it if you cannot read. i am sure you are fine guy.

 

[Grailhunter]

1. Genesis 15:6: “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
2. Habakkuk 2:4: “Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”
3. Mark 1:15: “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
4. Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

(Notice that here again, it doesn't say he who isn't baptized with water isn't saved, but he who doesn't believe)

1. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
2. Luke 7:50: “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
3. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
4. John 1:12: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
5. John 314,)15: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.“
6. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
7. John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
8. John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
9. John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
10. John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
11. John 6:40: “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. “
12. John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
13. John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
14. John 8:24: “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
15. John 11:25: “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
16. John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
17. John 12:46: “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”
18. John 16:27: “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”
19. John 20:31: “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
20. Acts 2:21: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
21. Acts 5:14: “And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)”
22. Acts 8:12: “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
23. Acts 8:13: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.”

When you open the Bible and you read it....it reads you. I have said it many times. You will find your character in the scriptures...You raise your flag and wave it!
I don't have to do nothing but believe! As if you knew what belief meant!
I don't have to do what Christ said, I just gotta believe!
I don't have to believe all the things Christ said, I will pick what I want! He never said I had believe it all! I just kinda believe. I wonder what kinda going to heaven will be like?
Good Deeds don't save ya! Where is my closet so I can sit down and wait my turn to go to heaven!
Many pick the lazy man's approach to Christianity. Righteousness gauged by what you do not do! Those of little faith have issues with believing the things Christ said. The good boys that sit like a bump on log waiting to go to heaven, are of no service to Christ. What do I care! All I got to do is believe! I am in like Flint!
If Christ thought like you, He would have believed He should save us....then thought about it would have been all He did...and we would be in Hell. Just keep on thinking! Satan believes in Christ, how different are you?

 

[Marymog]

This only confirms what I said.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It's a figure, a symbol of our salvation, not salvation itself. Just like the figure of the ark is a picture of salvation. It's our answer to God which saves us, not the water.

Oh goodness....You just chastised me by saying Anyone can take snippets out of context and slap em down like playing cards and that is not rightly dividing the word.

And then you take ONE passage out of context, out of the several I used, and say it confirms what you said. If it were to have put it in context you would have included how 8 were saved by water and it would destroy the 500 year teaching you are parroting.

Scripture makes it clear what water baptism is and what it does. You have decided to follow the 500 year Protestant teaching that SOME Protestants profess instead of the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity. WHY?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

1. Genesis 15:6: “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
2. Habakkuk 2:4: “Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”
3. Mark 1:15: “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
4. Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

(Notice that here again, it doesn't say he who isn't baptized with water isn't saved, but he who doesn't believe)

1. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
2. Luke 7:50: “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
3. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
4. John 1:12: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
5. John 314,)15: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.“
6. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
7. John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
8. John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
9. John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
10. John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
11. John 6:40: “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. “
12. John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
13. John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
14. John 8:24: “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
15. John 11:25: “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
16. John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
17. John 12:46: “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”
18. John 16:27: “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”
19. John 20:31: “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
20. Acts 2:21: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
21. Acts 5:14: “And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)”
22. Acts 8:12: “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
23. Acts 8:13: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.”

You can quote 500 more passages about what it takes to be saved.....None of them cancel out the passages on how baptism ALSO saves you. And the passages about how baptism saves you does not cancel out all the ones you quoted.

 

[Marymog]

This only confirms what I said.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It's a figure, a symbol of our salvation, not salvation itself. Just like the figure of the ark is a picture of salvation. It's our answer to God which saves us, not the water.

Sooooo why did you not completely quote me? Are you dodging my questions?

I asked you if you would you like to discuss the historical writings from your 1st and 2nd century Christian brothers and what they believed about baptism?

Or would you like to continue to tell me what your 16th Christian brothers believe about baptism?

Patient Mary

 

[Renniks]

You can quote 500 more passages about what it takes to be saved.....None of them cancel out the passages on how baptism ALSO saves you. And the passages about how baptism saves you does not cancel out all the ones you quoted.

The weight of scripture is important. You never base a doctrine on a vague statement. You have given one verse that you claim says baptism saves and it is not conclusive. I can give you 100 saying belief is what saves, no doubt involved. Baptism is a sign, a testimony, not the cause of salvation. Dunking babies just makes wet baby's.

 

[Renniks]

Sooooo why did you not completely quote me? Are you dodging my questions?

I asked you if you would you like to discuss the historical writings from your 1st and 2nd century Christian brothers and what they believed about baptism?

Or would you like to continue to tell me what your 16th Christian brothers believe about baptism?

Patient Mary

I'll go with scripture, thanks. I can read the early church Father's anytime I want.

 

[Philip James]

Dunking babies

Where is your faith man?
' this promise is for you and for your children'

Peace!

 

[Renniks]

Where is your faith man?
' this promise is for you and for your children'

Peace!

Ah, another verse fragment that doesn't fit the subject.
My faith is in Christ, not in water. A infant who isn't even old enough to understand can't be saved by dunking or sprinkling. But lots of people put their faith in thier infant baptism instead of in Christ. Sad and tragic. How many souls are lost, but think they are fine because they got wet once?

 

[Philip James]

Sad and tragic.

What is sad, and tragic, is that you think the faith of the Church is ineffective and has no power...

Do you really think our Father would withhold the gift of Faith to our children?

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

 

[Renniks]

What is sad, and tragic, is that you think the faith of the Church is ineffective and has no power...

Do you really think our Father would withhold the gift of Faith to our children?

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

Faith of the church? What church? Faith in Christ is what matters. Children can have faith. Infants are innocent. But infant baptism saves no one and there's no scriptural evidence for that practice.

 

[Philip James]

Faith of the church? What church?

The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

Peace be with you!

 

[Renniks]

The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

Peace be with you!

Which was just the universal church originally, meaning all who are believers.

 

[Philip James]

Which was just the universal church originally, meaning all who are believers

And yet you suggest our Father doesn't answer our prayers for our children...

Are you a believer or not?

Peace!

 

[Renniks]

And yet you suggest our Father doesn't answer our prayers for our children...

Are you a believer or not?

Peace!

Our children have their own Free Will, do they not? There's no guarantee your kids will follow your faith, baptized or not.