Why the trinity?

[brionne]

When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'

Rev 19:9 And he tells me, “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

 

[quietthinker]

When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'

Rev 19:9 And he tells me, “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

I think you are reading into the text what is not there. Jesus never refused worship. In other words, he was God.....if he wasn't he would have been a charlatan by accepting worship.

When the angel says 'worship God' he is not discounting Jesus as is clear from Rev. 22:13 where Jesus says ' I am the Alfa and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.'

 

[farouk]

The truth of Father, Son and Holy Spirit is profoundly Biblical, attested by the end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17, John's First Epistle, Romans chapter 8, and many other passages.

 

[brionne]

I think you are reading into the text what is not there. Jesus never refused worship. In other words, he was God.....if he wasn't he would have been a charlatan by accepting worship.

When the angel says 'worship God' he is not discounting Jesus as is clear from Rev. 22:13 where Jesus says ' I am the Alfa and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.'

but the angel mentions Jesus by name... so why not say to John, 'worship Jesus'??

 

[brionne]

The truth of Father, Son and Holy Spirit is profoundly Biblical, attested by the end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17, John's First Epistle, Romans chapter 8, and many other passages.

its very difficult to find trinity explicitly described in the bible.... it is being inferred by those who read it but never by those who wrote it.

 

[DPMartin]

When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'

Rev 19:9 And he tells me, “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

where does it say the angle is Jesus?

also you are way wrong because you don't read all the bible. Jesus never stopped anyone from worshiping Him when He walked with the Israelites in the flesh.

 

[DPMartin]

its very difficult to find trinity explicitly described in the bible.... it is being inferred by those who read it but never by those who wrote it.

no its not, read about the God of Abraham (the father) Isaac (the son offered) and Jacob rename Israel of with the children are of via the twelve.

read where Jesus tells that the Father is in Him and with Him and He in the Father and the Spirit is a given.

 

[101G]

GINOLCJ to all

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God

we must disagree with your assessment. is not Jesus the .... ONLY TRUE and LIVING GOD? when the angel said "worship God", is not the Lord Jesus GOD?

let's check the record and find out if it is so. first, Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." (now this is when the Lord Jesus came into the world. and this is before the book of Revelation ... ok).

we have our foundation laid, now lets prove it in scriptures. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

ok brionne, who sent his angel to John? but before you answer, let the angel tell us who sent him. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

clearly the angel said the "Lord God of the holy Prophets sent him". now brionne, who is the Lord God of ..... "the holy prophets" who sent him, the angel?

your answer please, and then we will know for sure that if the angel said worship Jesus, who is the Only True God or not.

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

 

[farouk]

its very difficult to find trinity explicitly described in the bible.... it is being inferred by those who read it but never by those who wrote it.

Untrue; what the word refers to is profoundly present. I gave many references already.

 

[quietthinker]

but the angel mentions Jesus by name... so why not say to John, 'worship Jesus'??

Cobbling a theory together on the basis of omission and that on a single text only ends in deep water. We must let the scripture interpret itself. How is that done?.... by having scripture support itself from other texts in context. When this is done prayerfully we can know of a certainty that which is correct and that which is error.

 

[101G]

The truth of Father, Son and Holy Spirit is profoundly Biblical, attested by the end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17, John's First Epistle, Romans chapter 8, and many other passages.

GINOLJC, to all.
not saying that you're right or wrong, but how are those verses declare a trinity?

please post one at a time and lets reason together....

PICJAG.

 

[Heart2Soul]

its very difficult to find trinity explicitly described in the bible.... it is being inferred by those who read it but never by those who wrote it.

The same thing can be said of the rapture....it is inferred by the reader rather than stated in scripture.

 

[charity]

When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'
Revelation 19:9-10
The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angel not say, Worship Jesus?

'And I fell at his feet to worship him.
And he said unto me,
See thou do it not:
I am thy fellowservant,
and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God:
for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'
(Rev 19:9-10)

Hello @brionne,

The angel and John share the same purpose and that is to bare the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ was to make God manifest to mankind - 'He that hath seen me hath seen the Father' (John 14:19). He always glorified His Heavenly Father. So it is no surprise that it is God that John was told to worship.

* God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19).

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Taken]

When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'
Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

TRINITY- one God

One in the Same.
Lord ...............- Word -Jesus/ Body
God ................- Will -Yahweh/Soul
Almighty ........- Power -Christ/Spirit

A single individual Human Man...(believing in God or not) All have the same thing, (as The One God,) within ONE man.

A man...is and has a CREATED formed body.
A man...is and has a SOUL given him.
A man....has a natural spirit (his Truth).

Men have multiple Given Names, Nick Names, Names others give them, Names they choose for themselves.
Names a man HAS may be known and Used by Some and not known or used by Others.

God named Himself, Yahweh
God named His Word, Jesus.
God named the Image of His Body, Jesus.
God named His Power, Christ.
God named His Wisdom, Christ.
God named His SEED, Christ.
God named His Savior, Jesus
etc.

Men also give themselves, and others give them, TITLES. (chief, president, emperor, manager, governor, etc.)
So also has God TITLES.

Men use their power of thought, ideas, will...
To Speak, To move, To encourage, effect Good, effect Evil.
God also has the Power to Speak.
And the Power to give Life and Take Away Life... To Create and Make His Creations Improved or TO Destroy them.

Point is: God is One Lord God Almighty...
That notifies us what He desires His Word to be Called, when it comes forth out of His mouth...

Not unlike many on this forum, who Decide what they are called on this forum...that no one else outside of this forum may ever call them....it doesn't Change the one man because he has multiple names and titles for "specifics" things that man does to accomplish his will.

TRI- THREE (Father, Son,Holy Spirit)
UNI- ONE
ITY- THREE UNITED IN ONE GOD

God-Father/Will
God-Son/ Word
God-Holy Spirt/Power

God...is Always in Unity with Himself...

Natural born Men however...are IN constant CONFLICT within themselves.

The FLESH Carnal Mind wants to do this...the Truth in their heart says, eh bad idea...their soul is effected in sorrow, depression, regret, when the Carnal Mind wins the internal Conflict over his hearts thoughts, and the Lie, or cheating, or theft, or deception, sneaking that the Carnal Mind proceeded with such Acts...keeps the internal Conflict rolling along with gusto.

It is BY and Through the Whole of God...His Will, Word and Power ...can Change the WHOLE of a man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Heart2Soul]

'And I fell at his feet to worship him.
And he said unto me,
See thou do it not:
I am thy fellowservant,
and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God:
for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'
(Rev 19:9-10)

Hello @brionne,

The angel and John share the same purpose and that is to bare the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ was to make God manifest to mankind - 'He that hath seen me hath seen the Father' (John 14:19). He always glorified His Heavenly Father. So it of no surprise that it is God that John was told to worship.

* God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19).

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amen, sister....Jesus died so that man could be reconciled to the Father.

 

[charity]

its very difficult to find trinity explicitly described in the bible.... it is being inferred by those who read it but never by those who wrote it.

Hello @brionne,

The work of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is the constant testimony of Scripture, their presence is interwoven throughout. For example:-

'Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
from the time that it was, there am I:
and now the Lord GOD, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel;
I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit,
which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.'
(Isaiah 48:16-17)

* This was the commission of the Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ)
* In regard to creation it is said:-

'By the Word of the LORD were the heavens made;
and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
(Psalm 33:6)

* The Word is the Lord Jesus Christ, He is the word of the Lord (God the Father) the breath of His mouth the Holy Spirit
* Of the Lord's incarnation is it said:-

'And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God.'
(Luke 1:35)

* Here the three are seen together, The Father (the Highest); The Holy Ghost, and 'that holy thing' - 'the Son of God' being the Lord Jesus.
Christ.
* The Lord Jesus Christ said:-

'But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in My name,
He shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.'
(John 14:26)

* This is so graphic it needs no explanation.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[101G]

* God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19).

YES, God the Holy Spirit was in Christ, but not in JESUS, but in the Christ.

we need to look very carefully at what the scripture states.

question was not it God in Flesh? but was he not anointed with the Spirit at his baptis? so who was in that flesh when that flesh was born?

for the scripture clearly states, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." and is not the "WORD" God, the same Person?

PICJAG

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hello @brionne,

The work of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is the constant testimony of Scripture,there presence is interwoven throughout. For example:-

'Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
from the time that it was, there am I:
and now the Lord GOD, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel;
I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit,
which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.'
(Isaiah 48:16-17)

* This was the commission of the Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ)
* In regard to creation it is said:-

'By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;
and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
(Psalm 33:6)

* The Word is the Lord Jesus Christ, He is the word of the Lord (God the Father) the breath of His mouth the Holy Spirit
* Of the Lord's incarnation is it said:-

'And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God.'
(Luke 1:35)

* Here the three are seen together, The Father (the Highest); The Holy Ghost, and 'that holy thing' - 'the Son of God' being the Lord Jesus.
Christ.
* The Lord Jesus Christ said:-

'But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in My name,
He shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.'
(John 14:26)

* This is so graphic it needs no explanation.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I believe if we take the word "God" out of all three and just address them as Father, Son and Holy Spirit....it takes some confusion away....their names are also very distinctly different and not interchangeable...example...Yahweh is not Yeshua and Yeshua is not Yahweh.....
Jesus is not Addonai, or Elohim, or El Elyon....our Father's name is specifically and personally His name and no one shares it....not even Jesus.

 

[101G]

I believe if we take the word "God" out of all three and just address them as Father, Son and Holy Spirit....it takes some confusion away....their names are also very distinctly different and not interchangeable...example...Yahweh is not Yeshua and Yeshua is not Yahweh.....
Jesus is not Addonai, or Elohim, or El Elyon....our Father's name is specifically and personally His name and no one shares it....not even Jesus.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

so who name did he come in?
if as you say,
"Yahweh is not Yeshua and Yeshua is not Yahweh.....Jesus is not Addonai, or Elohim, or El Elyon".

if he came in the Father's name what is that name?

PICJAG.

 

[Heart2Soul]

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

so who name did he come in?
if as you say,
"Yahweh is not Yeshua and Yeshua is not Yahweh.....Jesus is not Addonai, or Elohim, or El Elyon".

if he came in the Father's name what is that name?

PICJAG.

I don't know which name He was referring to...but I compare it to when we pray we pray in Jesus name...so maybe He meant all of His names. lol