the infirmity of your flesh:

[VictoryinJesus]

What is: the infirmity of your flesh?
Romans 6:16-23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [19] I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. [20] For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. [21] What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 15:1-3 We then that are strong (born of the Spirit)ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. [2] Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. [3] For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Paul was familiar with: infirmity of the flesh. Galatians 4:13-18 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. [14] And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel (messenger)of God, even as Christ Jesus. [15] Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. [16] Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? [17] They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. [18] But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.

Consider here the proverbs of the father not to provoke his children to wrath. How Jesus told the Pharisees they were of their father. How then the passages of God as the Father we should rather be in subjection to and Live. Not sin unto death but LIVE. Consider Paul’s words of warning to be careful you don’t consume one another. instead to provoke one another to love, unto obedience and not death. “it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing,”
Again, ‘I Set before you Life or death, a cursing or a blessing’ choose Life. Bless and curse not.

And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel (messenger)of God, even as Christ Jesus...Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 7:26-28 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; [27] Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. [28] For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

“For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity” ...BUT the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

 

[quietthinker]

What is: the infirmity of your flesh?

The propensity of the fallen human nature to sin.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The propensity of the fallen human nature to sin.

‘the fallen nature to sin’ thank you for replying. Your post makes me think of “When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: [17] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.” Matthew 8:14-17 with
“We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.” Romans 15:1

What does (28) below mean to you? It stands out to me He did not need to offer up sacrifice for His own sins and then the people’s...but when tempted was without sin.

what does ‘but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for evermore’ mean?

“Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. [28] For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.”

 

[DPMartin]

The propensity of the fallen human nature to sin.

human nature didn't fall, its what man has fell to, because, before the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil man's likeness and image was in God's likeness and image, which in nowise can be what human nature is or even could be.

 

[quietthinker]

What does (28) below mean to you? It stands out to me He did not need to offer up sacrifice for His own sins and then the people’s...but when tempted was without sin.

It means he stood out from sinners in that he was flawless and so as a high priest (mediator) he was superior to his earthly counterparts (high priests) who was required to offer sacrifice for their own sins before offering sacrifice on behalf of the people.

what does ‘but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for evermore’ mean?

The Father had sworn by himself in conjunction with the Son that they (he) would remedy the sin problem by going as a surety for man. This was done prior to the creation of Adam.

God knowing the beginning from the end had a plan in place to reconcile all things to himself in Jesus. The scripture speaks in terms of this.... 'before the foundation of the World'

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It means he stood out from sinners in that he was flawless and so as a high priest (mediator) he was superior to his earthly counterparts (high priests) who was required to offer sacrifice for their own sins before offering sacrifice on behalf of the people.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Are they by Jesus Christ different from...”earthly counterparts (high priests) who was required to offer sacrifice for their own sins before offering sacrifice on behalf of the people”?

 

[quietthinker]

human nature didn't fall, its what man has fell to, because, before the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil man's likeness and image was in God's likeness and image, which in nowise can be what human nature is or even could be.

God declared his whole creation to be very good when it came from his hand. Adam's nature was in line with God himself; it was perfect in every aspect. Adam could communicate intelligently with the rest of Creation. He had abilities which future generations progressively lost.....they no longer bore God's image but were more in line with the image of the adversary.

When Adam disobeyed his whole reality became subject to death....in other words, wheels were put in motion which would terminate his life.

When God said 'you shall surely die' if they so much as touched the forbidden fruit let alone ingested it, he was saying, dying you will die; he was saying that diminishment in every area will affect him till finally he would terminate as a living being and return to the dust from hence he came.

This state of 'diminishing' is referred to as the 'fallen nature'

 

[quietthinker]

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Are they by Jesus Christ different from...”earthly counterparts (high priests) who was required to offer sacrifice for their own sins before offering sacrifice on behalf of the people”?

Peter is referring to those in Jesus; those who have in gratitude for their redemption embraced God's offering.

The terms 'lively stones' is a metaphor for building materials where with a 'spiritual house' is constructed....in other words, God's Church (his people) are a 'structure' built by God.

Priests were teachers.....God endeavours that all who taste of the living waters, all who eat the bread of life become witnesses for him.....they are to teach all nations (point the people to the sacrifice and its meaning) of God's Grace in Jesus.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Peter is referring to those in Jesus; those who have in gratitude for their redemption embraced God's offering.

The terms 'lively stones' is a metaphor for building materials where with a 'spiritual house' is constructed....in other words, God's Church (his people) are a 'structure' built by God.

Priests were teachers.....God endeavours that all who taste of the living waters, all who eat the bread of life become witnesses for him.....they are to teach all nations (point the people to the sacrifice and its meaning) of God's Grace in Jesus.

Don’t disagree. Going to have to think on it for a while. Thank you.

 

[DPMartin]

God declared his whole creation to be very good when it came from his hand. Adam's nature was in line with God himself; it was perfect in every aspect. Adam could communicate intelligently with the rest of Creation. He had abilities which future generations progressively lost.....they no longer bore God's image but were more in line with the image of the adversary.

When Adam disobeyed his whole reality became subject to death....in other words, wheels were put in motion which would terminate his life.

When God said 'you shall surely die' if they so much as touched the forbidden fruit let alone ingested it, he was saying, dying you will die; he was saying that diminishment in every area will affect him till finally he would terminate as a living being and return to the dust from hence he came.

This state of 'diminishing' is referred to as the 'fallen nature'

if you're going to tell us what the bible says (which it doesn't say most of what you've posted here) but the bible also says the day they eat of the tree they shall die. so how is it then that we are here?

 

[Nancy]

if you're going to tell us what the bible says (which it doesn't say most of what you've posted here) but the bible also says the day they eat of the tree they shall die. so how is it then that we are here?

Could this mean they died "spiritually"? It's not mentioned in the creation account but, could God's intentions have been that His creation was to never die physically?

 

[amadeus]

@VictoryinJesus "The infirmity of your flesh"

The flesh is the containing vessel of each of us. Our infirmity [or infirmities are] is the weakness of each of us as a result of our flawed container and perhaps also its contents. We may speak or write about, as Paul did, specifics for ourselves, but everyone of us born of a woman has them until we do not:

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." II Cor 12:7-10

Take away my pain [my infirmity] Lord! Paul asked his three times and God answered that His grace was enough meaning that the pain would remain... and it did. King Hezekiah in pain, I suppose, as he was dying sought a similar reprieve and was given it along with a 15 year extension to his natural life.

Pleasure in our infirmities? Paul said, yea, but can we do that? Do many of us often, or ever, really talk to the Lord effectively saying, "Thank you Lord for my pain and suffering!"?

Again Paul was inspired to write:

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11

So then unlike Hezekiah who asked for relief from infirmity, should we along with Paul, simply say 'Thank you Lord for our infirmities'?

Consider then what James wrote here:

"Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." James 5:13-15

As we consider praying the prayer of faith that shall save the sick, perhaps even our own sicknesses, remember also how Jesus expressed it when praying for himself:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

Like with Paul, who needed to bear his infirmity with God's grace, Jesus had to drink the cup because of God's will. When we do pray for others or ourselves with regard to infirmities, we should also keep these things in mind.

Again words penned by James:

"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:2-3

What each of us really needs, I believe, is for our needs to coincide precisely with God tells that our needs are. Until we are overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer, very often we tend to call our wants, our needs. They should become the same, but for now, are they often not the same? Sometime our infirmities, I suggest or believe, are part of our needs according to God. How close to God do we wish to approach? Hmmm?

 

[quietthinker]

if you're going to tell us what the bible says (which it doesn't say most of what you've posted here) but the bible also says the day they eat of the tree they shall die. so how is it then that we are here?

Adam's progeny....I don't find that difficult to understand.

 

[amadeus]

Adam's progeny....I don't find that difficult to understand.

Children of the flesh, but dead to God until and if we have received the Life that Jesus brought!

 

[quietthinker]

Could this mean they died "spiritually"? It's not mentioned in the creation account but, could God's intentions have been that His creation was to never die physically?

It is man believing the serpent that denies God's words. He attempts to break down God's direct and plain words misrepresenting them ultimately saying the exact opposite.

Death meant the cessation of life in any aspect....physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
The creation of man was as a living unit not a compartmentalised construction where he can be separated from himself.....the cessation of life dissolves that unit definitively until God chooses to resurrect the dust.

The propensity to believe the serpent is insidious. It is what the believer is at war with. Take Peter as an example, he wants to walk on the water like Jesus, he asks permission and gets it, he steps out of the boat and on his way, then he looks at what he is doing and now he needs toilet paper....down he goes. That's what faithlessness does, it latches onto the lie and results in its dire consequences.

Allow me to carry this a little further......we are living in unprecedented times as most of us know.....we are living in a time when we are seeing and about to see lying wonders that will deceive even the elect if possible.

Spiritualism is on the rise exponentially. It will be through this avenue that deceptions will be dished out wholesale. The belief that the dead are not really dead but have taken on some other form will enamour those who believe it.....they will believe the 'evidence' of their senses when Satans demons masquerade as departed loved ones giving them information contrary to scripture. Their senses will rule over the Word of God and in so doing multitudes will be swept into the net that is stealthily being prepared by the arch enemy.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus "The infirmity of your flesh"

The flesh is the containing vessel of each of us. Our infirmity [or infirmities are] is the weakness of each of us as a result of our flawed container and perhaps also its contents. We may speak or write about, as Paul did, specifics for ourselves, but everyone of us born of a woman has them until we do not:

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." II Cor 12:7-10

Take away my pain [my infirmity] Lord! Paul asked his three times and God answered that His grace was enough meaning that the pain would remain... and it did. King Hezekiah in pain, I suppose, as he was dying sought a similar reprieve and was given it along with a 15 year extension to his natural life.

Pleasure in our infirmities? Paul said, yea, but can we do that? Do many of us often, or ever, really talk to the Lord effectively saying, "Thank you Lord for my pain and suffering!"?

Again Paul was inspired to write:

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11

So then unlike Hezekiah who asked for relief from infirmity, should we along with Paul, simply say 'Thank you Lord for our infirmities'?

Consider then what James wrote here:

"Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." James 5:13-15

As we consider praying the prayer of faith that shall save the sick, perhaps even our own sicknesses, remember also how Jesus expressed it when praying for himself:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

Like with Paul, who needed to bear his infirmity with God's grace, Jesus had to drink the cup because of God's will. When we do pray for others or ourselves with regard to infirmities, we should also keep these things in mind.

Again words penned by James:

"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:2-3

What each of us really needs, I believe, is for our needs to coincide precisely with God tells that our needs are. Until we are overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer, very often we tend to call our wants, our needs. They should become the same, but for now, are they often not the same? Sometime our infirmities, I suggest or believe, are part of our needs according to God. How close to God do we wish to approach? Hmmm?

I did read Amadeus and thank you. Still processing. I’m not sure why I started this thread. I wasn’t sure if ‘infirmity of the flesh’ means only sickness or more. Been thinking a lot on James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

It is the ‘for he beholds himself’ and ‘goes his way’ and ‘forgets what manner of man he was.’ Matthew 21:28-31

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Take Peter as an example, he wants to walk on the water like Jesus, he asks permission and gets it, he steps out of the boat and on his way, then he looks at what he is doing and now he needs toilet paper....down he goes. That's what faithlessness does, it latches onto the lie and results in its dire consequences.

Matthew 14:30-31 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him,

It was a tempest. Seas raging. Keep that of Peter when he sees the Lord walking towards him, and keep that what is happening there. See Peter afraid and sinking: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. [27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:25-27

saying, Lord, save me.

And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him,

(Imo) it has to do with the mirror, thinking more about it last night with Peter sinking. If he beholds himself in the mirror, goes his way, and forgets what manner of person he was ...the word says he deceived himself. But to see Christ, to behold Him. An example. Honestly when I think about tomorrow or the next ten years if I’m here that long ...I can not even think of walking every day, that long, day after day. I’m already exhausted, barely feeling as if I have strength enough for one more day beside countless more. If I divert my eyes there on myself and my ability to walk that many days, then take me out now because I’m done. Like Peter, I will and have almost everyday, sink. BUT thankfully God said “I will dwell in them, and walk in them...2 Corinthians 6:16.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Psalm 89:8-11 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee? [9] Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them. (Mark 4:39) [10] Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm. [11] The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Ephesians 1:20-23 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, [21] Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: [22] And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, [23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[Nancy]

It is man believing the serpent that denies God's words. He attempts to break down God's direct and plain words misrepresenting them ultimately saying the exact opposite.

Death meant the cessation of life in any aspect....physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
The creation of man was as a living unit not a compartmentalised construction where he can be separated from himself.....the cessation of life dissolves that unit definitively until God chooses to resurrect the dust.

The propensity to believe the serpent is insidious. It is what the believer is at war with. Take Peter as an example, he wants to walk on the water like Jesus, he asks permission and gets it, he steps out of the boat and on his way, then he looks at what he is doing and now he needs toilet paper....down he goes. That's what faithlessness does, it latches onto the lie and results in its dire consequences.

Allow me to carry this a little further......we are living in unprecedented times as most of us know.....we are living in a time when we are seeing and about to see lying wonders that will deceive even the elect if possible.

Spiritualism is on the rise exponentially. It will be through this avenue that deceptions will be dished out wholesale. The belief that the dead are not really dead but have taken on some other form will enamour those who believe it.....they will believe the 'evidence' of their senses when Satans demons masquerade as departed loved ones giving them information contrary to scripture. Their senses will rule over the Word of God and in so doing multitudes will be swept into the net that is stealthily being prepared by the arch enemy.

Okay, that makes sense but, why did it take so long for them to actually die I wonder?
And yes indeed, the serpent is deadly clever and already (IMO) has many Christians on his side already. He's so subtle one barely knows it's him...I fear for so many I see going down the wrong path and I also fear for myself that I won't "get it right", so much so that I don't want to believe ANYTHING I hear coming from men...but then, there is good old discernment and filtering things against scripture.
Those lying wonders are something that I just know will be something a couple in my family might bite at, they are easily led and think they are doing as God wants them to.

I think "their senses (some) already rule over The Word.

In closing, hopefully we will have our oil lamps full and lit brightly with extra oil! I'm hoping others are stocking their toilet paper :O

 

[quietthinker]

Okay, that makes sense but, why did it take so long for them to actually die I wonder?

The sense of 'thou shalt surely die' is to be understood as 'dying you will die'

Prior to the expulsion from the garden of Eden because of disobedience, they they were partakers of the tree of life.....it perpetuated life. Their removal left no 'recharge' ability and their life ebbed away.