Shall we discuss this?

[Truther]

Hi Truther,



Yes - I believe I follow...



I don't understand that at all. Our word? What is that?



I also apologise here - but you've completely lost me. I may need more sleep but at the moment I can't follow that sorry...



This I have some problems with...

You're saying that Jesus was created? I read vs 14 as "The word of God was made flesh". Made (ginomai) as in became. The word of God spoken in vs 14 is the same word of God spoken in vs 1. The word always was - it was not created, but through Him all things were created. That same word did not create - but rather became flesh.

This same word (ginomai) was used to describe stones being made into bread (Mat 4:3), us becoming the Children of God (Mat 5:45). Further more, Jesus said that before Abraham was - I am. (John 8:58).

So trying to see from your perspective, can you please let me know when do you believe that 1 John 14 occurred? (When was the word made flesh and dwelt among us)? Did this occur at the conception of Jesus in the womb? Or at another time?

I am not well educated in theology (never been to bible college / seminary, etc) - and I'm making statements and asking questions to explain my confusion to your statements in the hope that you can see my confusion and respond accordingly.

The simple anaology is if you speak, it is official.

Your word is you.

That is why those that lie to congress get the rest of them, not just their word in prison.

It is universally understood by men and Jesus that our word is actually us.

Jesus said, by thy words we will be justified or condemned.

Also, our word is with us.

My word is with me right now, and it belongs to nobody else.

This is all John 1 is saying...The SPOKEN word was God, the SPOKEN word was with God...and the SPOKEN word was made flesh.

The issue is, incarnationists do not believe that the word of God is the SPOKEN word of God, but some sort of another being or mode of God etc.

 

[Truther]

Also....the KJV is the only, non biased version that does not promote the incarnation concept, which is apparent as folks run to modern versions to attempt to explain such an idea.

 

[kcnalp]

Also....the KJV is the only, non biased version that does not promote the incarnation concept, which is apparent as folks run to modern versions to attempt to explain such an idea.

All of our other English Bibles are wrong? What are your credentials for declaring my 35 English Bibles are biased?

 

[Scoot]

The simple anaology is if you speak, it is official.

Your word is you.

That is why those that lie to congress get the rest of them, not just their word in prison.

It is universally understood by men and Jesus that our word is actually us.

Jesus said, by thy words we will be justified or condemned.

Also, our word is with us.

My word is with me right now, and it belongs to nobody else.

This is all John 1 is saying...The SPOKEN word was God, the SPOKEN word was with God...and the SPOKEN word was made flesh.

The issue is, incarnationists do not believe that the word of God is the SPOKEN word of God, but some sort of another being or mode of God etc.

Thank you for trying to explain your concept - but I think we're on two different wavelengths sorry. I can't follow the logic you're using that separate's one from the other.

(Also just to clarify - when I looked up the word ginomai - I got that from the Textus Receptus, which is where the KJV is translated from, so I wasn't going to another translation, but rather going beyond the English translation back to the Greek that is the source of the KJV).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Folks disagree with the 3 verses of the OP.

They cannot imagine greeting folks like Paul did in Eph 1:3.

Have you ever heard anyone greet a congregation etc., with "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus...".

No, they run from such first century language.

Who? I have yet to see any one in here run, and why would they?

we pray to the father through Jesus every day (or we should) so why would this bother us?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Huh.

OK. I see where you are going with this. You know that the Bible teaches that "God is the God of all flesh". So, what would that mean to the Son of God incarnating?

Let me ask another way . . . why did Jesus get baptized?

Much love!

John answers this.
John 1: 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”
32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.

To reveal who he was. and have a witness of God himself

 

[Eternally Grateful]

(smile), lol..... try JESUS...

see Yeshua is his Hebrew name, and JESUS is God NEW NAME which no man knew only he alone, because the dominate language English haven't in time came yet....

Oh how easy this is, next question?.

PICJAG.

Interesting is iesus is the Greek name. And Jesus is a transliteration of the Greek. So we basically call him a form of his name in the Greek, his name is actually yeshua or Joshua (I believe)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

thank you, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
WITH here means the same person. meaning the Word and God is the same one PERSON, for John 1:1c clearly says so. but lets goto the OT and see it clearly. Listen and LEARN. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." WITH here seems like that the "First" and the "Last" is two separate person alongsid each other, NO, ERROR. let's see the real meaning of "With", scripture, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO.

so the "First" and the "Last" is not two separate alongside each other but is the SAME "ONE" PERSON. for also means addition too. so the First is the Last the same ONE person. just as John 1:1c clearly states the "WORD" was "GOD". same one person, so your idea of any Father and Son as two separate Person is FALSE.

Isaiah and John says you are in ERROR.

NEXT question.

PICJAG.

I see it different

the word is Jesus (the OT and NT base the season is Jesus,

The word was god. (Jesus is God)
The word was with God (Jesus was with God, namely the father and spirit)
The word in the beginning was with God, Ie the word (Jesus) has always been with God

then something happened

the word came to his own but his own received him not...his own being Isreal as Jesus was the God of Isreal

or did I misunderstand you?

 

[Truther]

Who? I have yet to see any one in here run, and why would they?

we pray to the father through Jesus every day (or we should) so why would this bother us?

That is good that you never omit the son of God in any prayer, but that is not what the OP is about.

The OP is clearly saying that Jesus has a God, which rhetoric must be incorporated in all Christian theology and modern rhetoric as it was commonly spoken in the 1st century church.

We should say, "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ" etc, on a day to day basis.

 

[Truther]

Thank you for trying to explain your concept - but I think we're on two different wavelengths sorry. I can't follow the logic you're using that separate's one from the other.

(Also just to clarify - when I looked up the word ginomai - I got that from the Textus Receptus, which is where the KJV is translated from, so I wasn't going to another translation, but rather going beyond the English translation back to the Greek that is the source of the KJV).

You are welcome.

But, as far as the OP is concerned, Greetings this morning from the God of our lord Jesus Christ, and may you have a blessed day.

I think if Paul greeted the brethren like that, we should also.

 

[101G]

Interesting is iesus is the Greek name. And Jesus is a transliteration of the Greek. So we basically call him a form of his name in the Greek, his name is actually yeshua or Joshua (I believe)

GINOLJC, to all.
his name is actually yeshua or Joshua (I believe) correct, here is what transliteration is. look at this link "What is transliteration?"
What is transliteration?

I see it different

the word is Jesus (the OT and NT base the season is Jesus,

The word was god. (Jesus is God)

if you see it different, well let the bible change your mind. you said, "The word was god. (Jesus is God)". and Jesus was "WITH" God right?... well lets see if this is true. you have TWO ERRORS here and lets look at both.

#1. "The word was a god". scripture, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

well that just killed the notion you have, that the WORD a. is a god, and b. this god, small case was "WITH God. the "Word" being a "god", lower case "g" in god is over with. the bible clearly rprove that false notion. now what about Jesus being "a" God? upper case "G" in God? let's check the record and see if this is true?.

#2. "the Word was a God?" Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." well that just got the upper case "G" in God also. and at the same time any separate person who is God.

Eternally Grateful, let us reveal to you who and what God is in a plurality of ... "HIMSELF". God, who is JESUS... Hebrew, YESHUA, is THE, not a, but THE "equal Share" of his ownself in flesh, did you see we used the term "THE" vs "a", that's very important in describing God . and this is supportive by, and clearly Identify by the Greek word G243 Allos, "ANOTHER", not G2087 heteros in ANOTHER, but G243 Allos in "ANOTHER". do you know the difference? if not we suggest you use the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words to read the definition. it give an excellent, and we mean an excellent understanding on both words and how they are used.

Now if you have any question concering what we have said in this post or any other post we have made, AND YOU WANT TO DISCUSS, AND NOT ARGUE, THEN I'M GAME.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

All of our other English Bibles are wrong? What are your credentials for declaring my 35 English Bibles are biased?

You have 35 Bibles that are not worded exactly alike?

That sounds like the word of God is really subject to 35 news paper editors across the country, all saying something different.

You made my case.

 

[Taken]

Because the incarnationist believes the man Christ Jesus was the man/God Christ Jesus, and that God having a God is preposterous.

I think you are leaning on Mindful Logic.

God is His own God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truther]

I think you are leaning on Mindful Logic.

God is His own God.

Glory to God,
Taken

So ignore the words of the OP as we see them?

They don't really mean what they say?

Don't you think Christendom has to eventually fix this someday?

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

I agree with Jesus is God, but the scriptures per the OP says Jesus has a God as we speak.

So, can you make this work?

I figured it out already, but I will hold back so you can give me your thoughts on whether to incorporate or dismiss the verses from the OP.

Jesus prayed to His Father (The H.S) became glorified (divine) post resurrection. He was obedient up to, and beyond death. He rose on the third day physically, (and ate) as O Theos.

 

[Truther]

John answers this.
John 1: 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”
32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.

To reveal who he was. and have a witness of God himself

Yes, Jesus was before John.

Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world.

 

[kcnalp]

You have 35 Bibles that are not worded exactly alike?

And your credentials are? Don't have any?

 

[Truther]

Jesus prayed to His Father (The H.S) became glorified (divine) post resurrection. He was obedient up to, and beyond death. He rose on the third day physically, (and ate) as O Theos.

Correct.

That was a manifestation of the omnipresent bodily person of Jesus after he was resurrected and made a quickening spirit.

He is omnipresent bodily, right now, as a man, and all of what his God consists of is inside his quickening spirit body.

 

[Truther]

And your credentials are? Don't have any?

Bible reader/teacher for 40 years.

Same as the apostle John.

 

[kcnalp]

Bible reader/teacher for 40 years.

Maybe you should have spent the time reading the Bible 40 years like me.

Jesus is God and Hell is eternal. Do you believe?