Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

[VictoryinJesus]

So it goes until the sea will be no more.

no more sea...no more tumultuous, no more roaring, no more tossing, no more raging or foaming


Jeremiah 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the Lord : will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

 

[BarneyFife]

They are not resurrected, they are still dead.

is chronology of the stages of life/death, no?

 

[marks]

I'm not sure it's good hermeneutics to use a book filled with symbols and reality, and periods of time, mixed and jumbled together to prove chronology.

There's an awful lot you can learn from the Revelation if you closely follow the wording. It does reveal!

Much love!

 

[marks]

is chronology of the stages of life/death, no?

?

 

[Earburner]

Chronology, no, what death is.

The dead stand before God to be judged.

Much love!

The wicked dead stand before God symbolically.
But, if the opposite be the case for how you believe, that they will be literally standing before God (a consuming fire), in there flesh, then we also can imagine that the following might be a typical discussion and results:
God: "Okay....who's next?... oh, its you Mr. Johnny B. Good. Step right up and state your case."

Johnny: "Hi God, before we discuss my sins, I would like to say one thin"....(pffttt).

God: "Hey, Johnny B., where did you go??
Ooopps! Sorry about that!!
Oh well, what can I say, except that it seems that my Eternal all consuming firey presence does have that effect on people of mere flesh,....Next?"

 

[marks]

The wicked dead stand before God symbolically.
But, if the opposite be the case for how you believe, that they will be literally standing before God (a consuming fire), in there flesh, then we also can imagine that the following might be a typical discussion and results:

God: "Okay....who's next?... oh, its you Mr. Johnny B. Good. Step right up and state your case."

Johnny: "Hi God, before we discuss my sins, I would like to say one thin"....(pffttt).

God: "Hey, Johnny B., where did you go??
Ooopps! Sorry about that!!
Oh well, what can I say, except that it seems that my Eternal all consuming firey presence does have that effect on people of mere flesh,....Next?"

We can imagine anything we like I suppose. Or we can conform are minds to what He said.

I'm curious though. Why do you think that the dead being judged is symbolic?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

We can imagine anything we like I suppose. Or we can conform are minds to what He said.

I'm curious though. Why do you think that the dead being judged is symbolic?

Much love!

Lol, if there’s no life in them I’d say they’ve already been judged.

 

[Waiting on him]

The wicked dead stand before God symbolically.
But, if the opposite be the case for how you believe, that they will be literally standing before God (a consuming fire), in there flesh, then we also can imagine that the following might be a typical discussion and results:
God: "Okay....who's next?... oh, its you Mr. Johnny B. Good. Step right up and state your case."

Johnny: "Hi God, before we discuss my sins, I would like to say one thin"....(pffttt).

God: "Hey, Johnny B., where did you go??
Ooopps! Sorry about that!!
Oh well, what can I say, except that it seems that my Eternal all consuming firey presence does have that effect on people of mere flesh,....Next?"

That’s hilarious.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not really an invitation to slam Mr. Fudge. I just wondered how many proponents of annihilationism we have on board.

Does hell burn for eternity or just until the wicked suffer corresponding to the exact amount of evil caused by their words, thoughts, and deeds?

Hell, itself, was made for immortal fallen angels so will burn forever.

Unsaved man is mortal so will be destroyed immediately, as their spirit is also not eternal.

A born again person, with the Holy Spirit, has an immortal spirit. If they later quench the Spirit and deny Christ to turn to another religion's god, or becomes an atheist, that is the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit (that Spirit that only those who have been born again receive) and it is impossible for them to repent. The Holy Spirit being quenched has left them, but their own spirit is still immortal. Once immortal, always immortal. That is different than the heresy of OSAS. This is why Peter says:

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

And also of Judas. "It would have been better for him to have never been born."

 

[CharismaticLady]

The second death (annihilation) is one possibility as an outcome or destiny of men.

We are mortals...not immortals.

Right, but read my post #209

 

[Taken]

Why not? This is the first time I am hearing about this guy who fudged the doctrine of eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire.

I checked out his website and he has an article on this very subject (for which I will not post a link, since it is pure heresy).

So to all the Annihilationists out there, if you believe this nonsense then you make Christ a liar (a very dangerous position to be in). And this in one subject where human rationalistic reasoning must fully yield to divine revelation, since it it Christ Himself who created Gehenna (Hell, the Lake of Fire) for the devil and his angels. And the Bible clearly states that they will be tormented day and night FOREVER.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10)

Rev 20:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The devil
The beast
The false prophet
"are and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever"

^ That does not Apply to mankind.

[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


The Dead- Body-
...of a Saved soul Quickened spirit
Evidence - Books
Dead- Book of Life-
Dead- Book with Works
Judgement:
Name in Book of Life- Body raised in Glory
Works Glorifying God- Rewarded
Works Not Glorifying God- Works Burned


[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The Dead - Body-
...unsaved soul; unquickened spirit
Not in the Book of Life ( blotted out )
Works- Judged
Good works Glorifying God- IDK?
Works not Glorifying to God- Works Burned


[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Casting of Death and Hell into Lake of Fire-


[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Names Not in the Book of Life (blotted out)
Soul- not Saved.
Spirit- remained natural- never born Again from Gods Seed.

The LIFE in the Soul (Gods Breath)
The LIFE in the Body (Blood- already dead, at physical death)
The Everlasting Spirit LIFE (never Received)...

LIFE in the Soul is Gods, Returns to God.

What is left of the man?
A Dead Body without Life.
A Dead Natural spirit, died with physical body.
A Soul without Life.

A Body and soul Without LIFE in it.
^ that is Cast into the Lake of Fire.
Burned and Destroyed and Forgotten.

No a man does not suffer eternal torment.
His Torment is Knowledge he is Forever Separated From God.
His unsaved Living Soul Suffers that Knowledge and circumstances (described in Luke 16) for years in Hell.
There is No LIFE in a man, when his Body and soul are cast into the Lake of Fire.

Spirits cast into the Lake of Fire Suffer Eternally, Because That which IS Spirit can never Die.

Matt 10:
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able todestroy both soul and body in hell.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BarneyFife]

?

No worries

 

[Episkopos]

Right, but read my post #209

Right....and this is where outer darkness comes into play for they whom God rejects.

 

[bbyrd009]

Greek paganism??? My beliefs are as far from that as you can get! I find your assertions about me in this post to be generally bizarre and offensive, but I forgive your misrepresentation of my beliefs.

ah no he pretty much nailed it i guess, sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

It could be that some people will burn until they stop relishing the idea of others burning in pain eternally and until all impure ideas about God are consumed in the flames. (He who digs a pit shall fall into it?)

Me? I see the fires of hell favorably. They burn away what isn't worth saving. I think a saint, if perfected, could walk through hell without the least problem. I think the fire in hell are actually flames of Love -- which the sinful nature experiences as painful. As long as the sinful nature resists Love, it burns and feels pain, and wastes away. God is Love, but unfortunately some people experience His Love as painful.

word

 

[ChristisGod]

It could be that some people will burn until they stop relishing the idea of others burning in pain eternally and until all impure ideas about God are consumed in the flames. (He who digs a pit shall fall into it?)

Me? I see the fires of hell favorably. They burn away what isn't worth saving. I think a saint, if perfected, could walk through hell without the least problem. I think the fire in hell are actually flames of Love -- which the sinful nature experiences as painful. As long as the sinful nature resists Love, it burns and feels pain, and wastes away. God is Love, but unfortunately some people experience His Love as painful.

Do you have any scripture for all of those ideas ?

 

[BarneyFife]

Greek paganism??? My beliefs are as far from that as you can get! I find your assertions about me in this post to be generally bizarre and offensive, but I forgive your misrepresentation of my beliefs.

This scripture is what I base my beliefs on, not SDA doctrine.

Matt 25:45-46--“Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Surely not. If that were true you'd be disregarding 99+% of what Scripture has to say about the subject.

 

[BarneyFife]

Do you have any scripture for all of those ideas ?

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:8)

 

[ChristisGod]

Surely not. If that were true you'd be disregarding 99+% of what Scripture has to say about the subject.

I can make the opposite claim that you would be disregarding 99.999% of what Scripture says about conscious eternal torment for the wicked.

 

[BarneyFife]

I can make the opposite claim that you would be disregarding 99.999% of what Scripture says about conscious eternal torment for the wicked.

But that would be mathematically incorrect.