Why only 144,000?

[K9Buck]

Is it because God is unable to accommodate any more than that? How did he arrive at 144,000 rather than 144,827 or 143, 822? Exactly 144,000? Seems weird to me.

 

[justbyfaith]

For some reason he wanted to choose out 12,000 men from each tribe of Israel (except Dan) for His purposes during the Great Trib.

This is a question that maybe we might ask Him when we get to heaven.

 

[K9Buck]

For some reason he wanted to choose out 12,000 men from each tribe of Israel (except Dan) for His purposes during the Great Trib.

This is a question that maybe we might ask Him when we get to heaven.

Just men but not women? Why?

 

[justbyfaith]

Just men but not women? Why?

Not sure why. But the scripture declares that the 144,000 Jews are men who have not defiled themselves with women...virgins.

 

[K9Buck]

Not sure why. But the scripture declares that the 144,000 Jews are men who have not defiled themselves with women...virgins.

I appreciate the enlightenment. Thank you.

So the 144,000 will be practicing Jews and not Christians? I know a bunch of Christians who believe they'll be among the 144,000.

 

[Harvest 1874]

“And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed.” (Rev 7:4)

Why only a 144,000?

To properly understand this question please see our blog post on "How to Study the Book of Revelation, Part 15", the confusion here is in the rightly distinguishing between what part of this statement is to be taken literal and what is symbolic.

 

[K9Buck]

“And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed.” (Rev 7:4)

Why only a 144,000?

To properly understand this question please see our blog post on "How to Study the Book of Revelation, Part 15", the confusion here is in the rightly distinguishing between what part of this statement is to be taken literal and what is symbolic.

Thank you.

 

[Truman]

There are 12 Tribes, 12 Apostles, 12 divisions of the Zodiac, (which God created but the fallen Watchers gave to man prematurely), 12 gates to the New Jerusalem. Today's corrupted Zodiac has a half-man/half-horse being when in reality it is a man standing by a horse. Our enemy is sly. The enemy is also responsible for the Anunnaki fraud. As well as the ancient alien myth. Evolution is science fiction.
The 144,000 are 12,000 x 12 from Israel. These are the ones who have washed their robes in "The Blood Of The Lamb." Apparently these are the ones who will minister to God and through whom He shall minister to all the Earth. And they will do it from the New Jerusalem. Shalom.

 

[Davy]

Is it because God is unable to accommodate any more than that? How did he arrive at 144,000 rather than 144,827 or 143, 822? Exactly 144,000? Seems weird to me.

144,000 is a number to represent the idea of perfection. It is made up of a thousand, pointing to the divine structure of God's time (2 Peter 3:8), and then raised to the power of 3, God's number.

 

[Davy]

I appreciate the enlightenment. Thank you.

So the 144,000 will be practicing Jews and not Christians? I know a bunch of Christians who believe they'll be among the 144,000.

This is where thorough Bible study comes in.

The 144,000 of Rev.7 are not all Jews. They all are indeed Israelites. How so?

Here's the historical scenario:

1. God split old Israel into 2 separate kingdoms - 1 Kings 11.
2. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin together made up the "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea.
3. The ten tribes of Israel made up the "kingdom of Israel" in the northern lands, Samaria as their capital city.
4. Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, was made king of over Judah, the house of Judah, or kingdom of Judah, in the south.
5. Jeroboam, one born of the tribe of Ephraim, the largest tribe then, God made him king over the northern ten tribed kingdom of Israel.
6. Rehoboam gathered up men and arms with Benjamin to go north and bring the kingdom back to him whole. God told him no, that this matter was of Him.
7. Jeroboam, king of Israel, setup 2 golden calf idols in the northern and told Israel that was their gods, to worship them. He did this to prevent the northern tribes from going south to Jerusalem where proper worship was at that time.
8. Jeroboam fired the Levite priests from doing their duties among the northern ten tribes, and instead setup common priests in paganism among the people, worshiping the Baal gold calf idols.
9. The Levites among the northern tribes then went south and joined with Judah and Benjamin. And also a remnant out of the ten northern tribes also went south and joined with Judah.
10. The two kingdoms had war against each other.
11. Because of Jeroboam's Baal calf idols, and Israel's rebelliousness against Him, God brought the kings of Assyria in stages upon the ten northern tribes, and removed them all to the lands of Assyria, and cities of the Medes (2 Kings 18).
12. Only the kingdom of Judah was left in the land, south at Jerusalem/Judea. Only these were known as Jews, that title originating from the sole tribe of Judah (per the Jewish historian Josephus).
13. As the kings of Assyria would do to captured peoples, he moved foreign peoples from five provinces of Babylon into the northern lands where the ten tribes had been. These became the Samaritans, and the Jews of the southern kingdom of Judah would have nothing to do with them.
14. About 130 years after the ten tribes of Israel had been removed, God brought Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon upon the "kingdom of Judah", and took the majority of them captive to Babylon for 70 years. This was the time of Jeremiah and Daniel.
15. After the 70 years, the Jews captive to Babylon were released. But only a remnant of the "kingdom of Judah" chose to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and temple. The majority of the "house of Judah" chose to remain in Babylon, because God had taken good care of them there.
16. The ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel" remained captive in the lands of Assyria and cities of the Medes north of Babylon, and never returned as a people to the holy land, not even to this day.
17. In the Book of Hosea, God ordained the penalties upon the ten tribes of the house of Israel, that they would lose their heritage as part of Israel, they would be scattered farther through the countries, they lose knowledge of God's feasts, sabbaths, etc. But Judah would not lose knowledge of their heritage as part of Israel.
18. The ten tribes became 'as' Gentiles, scattered among Gentiles, filling themselves up with the Baal worship they loved in rebelliousness against God. Yet God preserved a remnant of them that would know the truth.
19. Still to this day, the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel" are separate. The Jews nor the world knows what happened to the ten lost tribes, but God showed in the Book of Amos that He knows where they are, and that they will be gathered as grain through a sieve and not the least grain will fall to the ground. This gathering and the resurrection are hinted at in the Ezekiel 37 chapter.

Thus only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi actually represent today's Jews.

The rest of the tribes listed there in Rev.7 represent the ten lost tribes living among the Gentiles, of which only a small remnant of them have any inkling at all of their ancient heritage as part of Israel.

What this also means is, many of both the house of Judah, and of the ten lost tribes of the house of Israel, are members today of Christ's Church, and that because of their scattering.

Thus the 144,000 ALL represent those in Christ Jesus, just that they are of the seed of Israel. That applies right now, and is not about Pre-tribulationalist's theory about tribulation saints.

 

[K9Buck]

There are 12 Tribes, 12 Apostles, 12 divisions of the Zodiac, (which God created but the fallen Watchers gave to man prematurely), 12 gates to the New Jerusalem. Today's corrupted Zodiac has a half-man/half-horse being when in reality it is a man standing by a horse. Our enemy is sly. The enemy is also responsible for the Anunnaki fraud. As well as the ancient alien myth. Evolution is science fiction.
The 144,000 are 12,000 x 12 from Israel. These are the ones who have washed their robes in "The Blood Of The Lamb." Apparently these are the ones who will minister to God and through whom He shall minister to all the Earth. And they will do it from the New Jerusalem. Shalom.

Very interesting. Thank you!

 

[K9Buck]

144,000 is a number to represent the idea of perfection. It is made up of a thousand, pointing to the divine structure of God's time (2 Peter 3:8), and then raised to the power of 3, God's number.

So it's not literally 144,000 people living on Earth ascending to the sky to meet Jesus?

 

[justbyfaith]

There are more than 144,000 who will rise to meet Jesus in the air when He returns.

The Bible teaches that there will be a multitude that no one can number, all dressed in white, who will stand before the throne of the Lord, having come out of great tribulation. I believe that these may in fact be the raptured saints (the church).

 

[justbyfaith]

This is where thorough Bible study comes in.

The 144,000 of Rev.7 are not all Jews. They all are indeed Israelites. How so?

Here's the historical scenario:

1. God split old Israel into 2 separate kingdoms - 1 Kings 11.
2. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin together made up the "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea.
3. The ten tribes of Israel made up the "kingdom of Israel" in the northern lands, Samaria as their capital city.
4. Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, was made king of over Judah, the house of Judah, or kingdom of Judah, in the south.
5. Jeroboam, one born of the tribe of Ephraim, the largest tribe then, God made him king over the northern ten tribed kingdom of Israel.
6. Rehoboam gathered up men and arms with Benjamin to go north and bring the kingdom back to him whole. God told him no, that this matter was of Him.
7. Jeroboam, king of Israel, setup 2 golden calf idols in the northern and told Israel that was their gods, to worship them. He did this to prevent the northern tribes from going south to Jerusalem where proper worship was at that time.
8. Jeroboam fired the Levite priests from doing their duties among the northern ten tribes, and instead setup common priests in paganism among the people, worshiping the Baal gold calf idols.
9. The Levites among the northern tribes then went south and joined with Judah and Benjamin. And also a remnant out of the ten northern tribes also went south and joined with Judah.
10. The two kingdoms had war against each other.
11. Because of Jeroboam's Baal calf idols, and Israel's rebelliousness against Him, God brought the kings of Assyria in stages upon the ten northern tribes, and removed them all to the lands of Assyria, and cities of the Medes (2 Kings 18).
12. Only the kingdom of Judah was left in the land, south at Jerusalem/Judea. Only these were known as Jews, that title originating from the sole tribe of Judah (per the Jewish historian Josephus).
13. As the kings of Assyria would do to captured peoples, he moved foreign peoples from five provinces of Babylon into the northern lands where the ten tribes had been. These became the Samaritans, and the Jews of the southern kingdom of Judah would have nothing to do with them.
14. About 130 years after the ten tribes of Israel had been removed, God brought Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon upon the "kingdom of Judah", and took the majority of them captive to Babylon for 70 years. This was the time of Jeremiah and Daniel.
15. After the 70 years, the Jews captive to Babylon were released. But only a remnant of the "kingdom of Judah" chose to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and temple. The majority of the "house of Judah" chose to remain in Babylon, because God had taken good care of them there.
16. The ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel" remained captive in the lands of Assyria and cities of the Medes north of Babylon, and never returned as a people to the holy land, not even to this day.
17. In the Book of Hosea, God ordained the penalties upon the ten tribes of the house of Israel, that they would lose their heritage as part of Israel, they would be scattered farther through the countries, they lose knowledge of God's feasts, sabbaths, etc. But Judah would not lose knowledge of their heritage as part of Israel.
18. The ten tribes became 'as' Gentiles, scattered among Gentiles, filling themselves up with the Baal worship they loved in rebelliousness against God. Yet God preserved a remnant of them that would know the truth.
19. Still to this day, the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel" are separate. The Jews nor the world knows what happened to the ten lost tribes, but God showed in the Book of Amos that He knows where they are, and that they will be gathered as grain through a sieve and not the least grain will fall to the ground. This gathering and the resurrection are hinted at in the Ezekiel 37 chapter.

Thus only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi actually represent today's Jews.

The rest of the tribes listed there in Rev.7 represent the ten lost tribes living among the Gentiles, of which only a small remnant of them have any inkling at all of their ancient heritage as part of Israel.

What this also means is, many of both the house of Judah, and of the ten lost tribes of the house of Israel, are members today of Christ's Church, and that because of their scattering.

Thus the 144,000 ALL represent those in Christ Jesus, just that they are of the seed of Israel. That applies right now, and is not about Pre-tribulationalist's theory about tribulation saints.

Very informative, thank you.

You do realize that you are substantiating the JW doctrine of the 144,000?

 

[K9Buck]

There are more than 144,000 who will rise to meet Jesus in the air when he returns.

The Bible teaches that there will be a multitude that no one can number, all dressed in white, who will stand before the throne of the Lord, having come out of great tribulation. I believe that these may in fact be the raptured saints (the church).

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

144,000 is a symbolic number, not literal.
Hebrew is full of such things representing a number. English can not fathom such things at all directly until they learn something of Hebrew so as to get a handle on such things and the point that is peddled as to, meet Jesus in the air is not literal at all. the word for air here means Spirit.
Their is no rapture in the air at all. one is raptured in the Holy Spirit only and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
No one ever truly knew Jesus Christ truly, until he went to Heaven and that was only due to the Holy Spirit.
All only had faith in Jesus in the flesh, they did not know him truly until after he went to Heaven in fact. now Nathaniel said who he was due to faith but what did Jesus say to him ? yes and it did happen as Jesus said.

 

[K9Buck]

the word for air here means Spirit. Their is no rapture in the air at all. one is raptured in the Holy Spirit only...

This is a very salient point. Thank you so much for helping me to understand. God bless you!

 

[Truman]

Very informative, thank you.

You do realize that you are substantiating the JW doctrine of the 144,000?

Thanks for the teaching. #13 tells me why they didn't go back. I knew there was more to it and you just showed it to me.
As far as all the Levites returning to Judah, some stayed behind in the northern kingdom. I know this because God has told me, and also given me proof through my parents' family tree and historical documentaries, which put my ancestors and some of the ten tribes at the same place at the same time, that I am a Levite. That being Normandy in the 1500s.
Further research confirmed that my last name originated in Normandy, as far as France was concerned. Twice. It appeared much earlier in England, but it originated with the 10, as I call them. Some of them went to Scandinavia and some went to Great Britain.
I am not descended from Aaron and Moses, though we share a common ancestor in Levi. I am Levi'im. God made me a worship leader.
Until last Fall, I thought of myself as a Christian. I was glad that I was a Christian. I love my God. The only adjustment I've made is that I now call myself a Messianic disciple. Saved by faith in Jesus alone. 100% atonement. Though I don't have an issue with the Jews, God told me that I'm a Levite. He also said that He would wake up the Levites first. I believe that N.T. giving is put forth in 2 Corinthians chs. 8 & 9 and replaces tithing.
As far as the J.W.s go, I'll have to take your word for it. I try to seek God for His interpretation of scripture. I'm not saying I'm infallible because I know I'm not. I once read a bit of their material and it felt like an iron hand was trying to take over my mind so I avoid them. The same with the Mormons and every other sect that does not line up with the Apostle's Creed.
After reading Proverbs once, the wisdom of God showed me I was a fool. I cried out, "what hope is there for a fool?" God led me to the scripture that says there is more hope for a fool than for one who is wise in his own eyes." Another time I was faced with some stumbling I was doing. I was perplexed. God showed me that a righteous man may stumble 7 times, but he keeps getting back up. Which described me to a tee. Thankfully I don't stumble like I used to.
Finally, whenever I think about the 10, it breaks my heart all over again. Jesus has allowed me to feel His heart in regard to His people. I find it difficult to explain how painful it was. This includes the church and Israel as a whole. There is another change with me, I say shalom. Shalom.

 

[K9Buck]

Thanks for the teaching. #13 tells me why they didn't go back. I knew there was more to it and you just showed it to me.
As far as all the Levites returning to Judah, some stayed behind in the northern kingdom. I know this because God has told me, and also given me proof through my parents' family tree and historical documentaries, which put my ancestors and some of the ten tribes at the same place at the same time, that I am a Levite. That being Normandy in the 1500s.
Further research confirmed that my last name originated in Normandy, as far as France was concerned. Twice. It appeared much earlier in England, but it originated with the 10, as I call them. Some of them went to Scandinavia and some went to Great Britain.
I am not descended from Aaron and Moses, though we share a common ancestor in Levi. I am Levi'im. God made me a worship leader.
Until last Fall, I thought of myself as a Christian. I was glad that I was a Christian. I love my God. The only adjustment I've made is that I now call myself a Messianic disciple. Saved by faith in Jesus alone. 100% atonement. Though I don't have an issue with the Jews, God told me that I'm a Levite. He also said that He would wake up the Levites first. I believe that N.T. giving is put forth in 2 Corinthians chs. 8 & 9 and replaces tithing.
As far as the J.W.s go, I'll have to take your word for it. I try to seek God for His interpretation of scripture. I'm not saying I'm infallible because I know I'm not. I once read a bit of their material and it felt like an iron hand was trying to take over my mind so I avoid them. The same with the Mormons and every other sect that does not line up with the Apostle's Creed.
After reading Proverbs once, the wisdom of God showed me I was a fool. I cried out, "what hope is there for a fool?" God led me to the scripture that says there is more hope for a fool than for one who is wise in his own eyes." Another time I was faced with some stumbling I was doing. I was perplexed. God showed me that a righteous man may stumble 7 times, but he keeps getting back up. Which described me to a tee. Thankfully I don't stumble like I used to.
Finally, whenever I think about the 10, it breaks my heart all over again. Jesus has allowed me to feel His heart in regard to His people. I find it difficult to explain how painful it was. This includes the church and Israel as a whole. There is another change with me, I say shalom. Shalom.

Great post!

 

[Taken]

Is it because God is unable to accommodate any more than that? How did he arrive at 144,000 rather than 144,827 or 143, 822? Exactly 144,000? Seems weird to me.

Like all numbers: the intent is for numbers to represent the Amount of something

The number 12 is repeatedly used in Scripture, as the Amount of men to be recognized with Status of Authority.

The number 12, is the Amount of Tribes of Israel.

The number 12,000, is the Amount of holy men from "Each" Tribe of Israel, reserved "For" the Last Days (before a new Heaven and new Earth is revealed), to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, TO all the Tribes of Israel; That they, may hear, The Truth From their own Tribesman; Accept the Truth From their own Tribesmen; Become Saved By the Truth (Christ Jesus), and Become added to Gods Inheritance, with their forefathers.

144,000 Divided equally among the 12 Established Tribes of Israel is ...12,000 of each Tribe.

Glory to God,
Taken