Thank you for sharing more of the chapter. The book of Romans is well worth repeated reading (as is most if not all scripture). Salvation is offered to all, but only accepted by some. So the real question is why does anyone believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God and creator, or that He chose to reveal Himself in scripture and in the person of His Son, dying for the propitiation of sin, and rising from the dead in glory? Not a whole lot of appeal there to the rational mind of man.
John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"
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CharismaticLady
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God, the Father, has given all of mankind a measure of faith. Romans 12. You see, I believe Romans 12 is for his creation, and even atheists have some of these "gifts."
The Holy Spirit gives gifts to those who are born again of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12.
And the Son gives gifts in the way of offices to His Church in Ephesians 4.
You have taken that out of context. It applies only to those gifted with gifts to minister the Word. Check the context carefully.
I believe that you're referring to what most evangelicals would call "common grace," as opposed to "saving grace." And I don't think any evangelical would dispute the idea that all good gifts are from God, regardless of the recipient:
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. James 1:17
Yes it does...look at the footnotes in that section in any newer translation...
The Greek is Genethe Anothen. Anothen means "up" or above in every other Greek writing until this passage of scripture for some odd reason. Meaning that it has been translated incorrectly from the koine greek for years.
And if you had bothered to read about how John has a theme in his Gospel account of "sons of God" that I explained (and can go much farther in detail on this subject) you can see that I have the correct exegesis of this passage in direct conflict with hundreds of pastor's and thousands of sermons on this passage.
A big part of my walk with God is surrendering my will to Him. How many times did I beg Him to take my free will from me? He never did it. And yet the first time I heard John 3:16 I had a vision where there was something like a curtain in front of me. A hand holding a sword came through the curtain and plunged it deep into my stomach. It was at this instant that I knew it was true. Though I had no idea what the sword thing was. I did not will any of this. It just happened.
At the time the only reason I was in a church was that I wanted the guy I was with to stop bugging me about going to church. I went once to shut him up. I'm really thankful today that he was so pushy.
I dunno, saying I had nothing to do with being born again is, to me, like saying I had nothing to do with Jesus dying on the cross. I didn't call me or did I create me. So I see that God is sovereign and I see that He wants me to willingly line my will up with His. He's so much bigger than our brain box. Shalom.
At the time the only reason I was in a church was that I wanted the guy I was with to stop bugging me about going to church. I went once to shut him up. I'm really thankful today that he was so pushy.
I dunno, saying I had nothing to do with being born again is, to me, like saying I had nothing to do with Jesus dying on the cross. I didn't call me or did I create me. So I see that God is sovereign and I see that He wants me to willingly line my will up with His. He's so much bigger than our brain box. Shalom.
So, was Nicodemus born again apart from placing His faith in the crucified and risen Jesus?
Last time I checked, born again means being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
And the Holy Spirit was not given until after Jesus died and rose again (John 7:39).
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Romans 10:13 Paul is quoting Joel 2:32 and saying Christ is YHWH the One Lord a person must confess/agree with is Lord.
hope this helps !!!
You will need to go back and read what I originally wrote...
But the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is a nice study to do at some point.
Of course we know that the Spirit of Christ dwelt in Old Testament prophets (1 Peter 1:11).
However, we know also that He was given as the result of the Cross; even to the Old Testament prophets.
So then, if Nicodemus stood as being like the Old Testament prophets, then he had the Spirit of Christ and was born again.
But I would say that Nicodemus had no revelation of Christ dying on the Cross and therefore could not have had the Holy Ghost; since the Holy Ghost comes in as a result of faith in what Jesus did for us on the Cross.
I believe that he may have gotten born again as the result of his encounter with Jesus. For Jesus briefly spoke to Nicodemus of His death on the Cross (John 3:14-16). But he was certainly not born again before encountering Jesus. For if anyone is truly born again, they are bold and are not ashamed of the gospel; while Nicodemus was ashamed of talking to Jesus (he went to speak to Him in the nighttime).
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Still haven't read it...tsk tsk tsk...
How can you expect to have a reasonable conversation without reading something keystone is beyond me.
I meant the exegesis I wrote.
John's Gospel is not in question.
If you are not interested in having a reasonable conversation with me why did you pipe up to begin with?
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Not exactly, I listened to "grace to you" for about a decade while working. John McArthur doesn't teach that we have no choice, but the opposite. However, the "bondage of the will" is no new concept and goes back as far as the writings of Martin Luther, considered the Father of the reformation, and possibly as far back as the Apostle Paul. Paul, in the book of Romans, dives into some depth on the fallen nature of man and the inability of the natural man to please God or to understand spiritual things. Paul describes the nature of "the flesh" as being in opposition to God. An unregenerate soul has free will to choose, but a fallen nature which opposes God and is by nature a creature of wrath. If there were no free will to choose, all would remain creatures of wrath, subject to condemnation, and God would be entirely just to send us all to hell. However:
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. Romans 5:7-9
Well,
How is it then that your explanation doesn't fit the text, has no basis in anthropology or history, and actually adds to what is written?
(especially since a good sum of money was spent writing out this narrative by John who was usually broke and "of course" information was left out)
But I will say that what you have said was commonly taught 50 years ago.
On the contrary, Yahweh would be a ghastly human contrivance unworthy of credibility by the best human instincts of what is fair--and inconsistent with His alleged nature of pure unconditional love.
Interesting vision. The word of God was Identified by the Apostle Paul as the "sword of the Spirit" and it is the word as applied to our hearts by the Holy Spirit that brings conviction of sin and of truth, appropriate to the circumstances described and a worthy testimony .
How so? And how are human instincts a measure of what is fair, good, or righteous? Human instinct is that of the beast, cruel, unkind, without mercy, and wrathful.
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