The Bible and The American Revolution

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APAK

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You're right saying "It's not there".

Christians in the NT were persecuted even to death. They did not resist.

Is that all you can say then, just empty words? You really have zero to say that is worthwhile, so don't kid yourself thinking you do.


Please get real.....Christians were persecuted even to death..are you kidding me....so I wonder why..It might have had something to do with them being slaves, outnumbered and without swords to defend themselves...your response is pitiful and thoughtless

See my post on 'turning the other cheek' that I see you do not understand either.

It's about not resisting evil when someone just insults you and does not threaten you with bodily harm? Go find my post # 29 above and maybe you can learn something about scripture.
 

bbyrd009

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yes, and then imagine where you'd be if Jesus had followed your path
Being robbed is right.....as with many others in their own countries...The 2nd amendment was first to ensure a militia of the people, as a group, would become a sure deterrent against the evils of an overly intrusive government. These evils have to be more that just stealing money unfortunately, and it is the right thing to restrain self in perseverance at this time. We can really overcome this without force, in the end. And this is the patience of a true patriot...and really the stealing of the people's resources and money is not everything by itself. If this theft was then attached or accompanied by devices to bring the people to it knees such as control of food and their general livelihood, then and only then do we act with the 2nd Amendment in mind....it has to be the last resort, else would be considered hypocrites and it would be unjustifiable and unbiblical, indeed. It's a tough thing to bite one's tongue and keep hands at one's sides in these times..

Bless you,

APAK
well, imo you got Broken Food and small businesses going bankrupt right now, over and above a private Federal Reserve, so mostly i guess im curious what you imagine you would be shooting anyone for?
 

kcnalp

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Is that all you can say then, just empty words? You really have zero to say that is worthwhile, so don't kid yourself thinking you do.


Please get real.....Christians were persecuted even to death..are you kidding me....so I wonder why..It might have had something to do with them being slaves, outnumbered and without swords to defend themselves...your response is pitiful and thoughtless

See my post on 'turning the other cheek' that I see you do not understand either.

It's about not resisting evil when someone just insults you and does not threaten you with bodily harm? Go find my post # 29 above and maybe you can learn something about scripture.
No NT? Of course not.
Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,
 

APAK

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No NT? Of course not.
Matthew 5:44 (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,
Have a great Day...APAK
 

APAK

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yes, and then imagine where you'd be if Jesus had followed your path

well, imo you got Broken Food and small businesses going bankrupt right now, over and above a private Federal Reserve, so mostly i guess im curious what you imagine you would be shooting anyone for?

Today or in the future you will be using weapons in communities and towns against foreign or traitorous armies/armed men ready to do harm...domestic or foreign..of whatever the composition...I see both on the horizon and when it comes we will be ready..I have no doubts about it....remember, the enemies of the State know this already....so just knowing we have these arms should keep them in check..up to now it has worked..until they think they can legislate these rights away...which is not happening, and has never worked, at least in the US.. trying to take them away by force will be suicide and cause a blood bath...they know this already.

So they, these pathetic satanic and 'rich' psychopaths are trying other means today, as a war of attrition to raise prices, deliberately keep food inventories lower and lower..etc add in surveillance tools and methods etc..and keep many weak in spirit, in fear and use these for their purposes to stifle patriots....the classic divide and conquer method..to cause much confusion.

The people at their lowest point will turn to God and band together....believers and even those that are not at that point will all band together if given the opportunity, time, energy and resources..it is contagious at that point..

I don't know the future, I just pray that if and when I need to act out of sheer need for family and community in whatever fashion, it gives me peace in mind and spirit that I'm doing the right thing for my Lord.

APAK
 
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ChristisGod

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@Scoot

I just want to let you know that Jesus, and his disciples, in fact, believed in self-defense of property, family and person. Jesus justified these self-defensive actions.

I might start with that later...

Thanks

Bless you,

APAK
where is that taught by Jesus and the Apostles ?
 
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kcnalp

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Revelation 13:7 (NKJV)
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
 

APAK

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I know but I'm always interested to see how some will twist scripture.
Really...You know for a fact...I'm not going to hold your hand and walk you to the scripture. You actually have to open scripture yourself if you really are serious. I see you might have joined the party late. Why don't you see my previous posts to know why you most probably have 'jumped the gun.'

Folks like you just whine and complain and do not contribute at all to the discussion. You have no answers and you in fact twist the truth if any one does. You are not interested in the truth here.

Conceited comes to mind here....
 

ChristisGod

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Really...You know for a fact...I'm not going to hold your hand and walk you to the scripture. You actually have to open scripture yourself if you really are serious. I see you might have joined the party late. Why don't you see my previous posts to know why you most probably have 'jumped the gun.'

Folks like you just whine and complain and do not contribute at all to the discussion. You have no answers and you in fact twist the truth if any one does. You are not interested in the truth here.

Conceited comes to mind here....
where is this taught by Jesus as you claimed the following :

"I just want to let you know that Jesus, and his disciples, in fact, believed in self-defense of property, family and person. Jesus justified these self-defensive actions."

Got Scripture ?
 

Taken

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My question is: Does the bible support Christian involvement in things such as The American Revolution, or does it restrict against it, or is it silent?

I would on a broad scale, say yes.
The Bible teaches to be Subject TO Governing Powers.
But also Teaches, TO be Above all else, Subject TO Gods governance.

How does one redress a grievance toward the Governing power, nearly 4,000 miles across an Ocean? ( in those days )
Considering also, (excluding explorers), people coming to N. America...
* Came Willingly to escape, oppression, particularly, regarding Religious views...
* And Came as prisoners, with indentured, servitude sentences TO the king.

Personally, I believe God...encourages and promotes Liberty for all individuals, to make their own choices, and enjoy or regret the consequences of their choices.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

APAK

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where is this taught by Jesus as you claimed the following :

"I just want to let you know that Jesus, and his disciples, in fact, believed in self-defense of property, family and person. Jesus justified these self-defensive actions."

Got Scripture ?
So you want me to hold your hand then..unbelievable..#23, 28, 29...open your Bible..Have you found it yet....I'm done with your whining mate..
 

ChristisGod

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So you want me to hold your hand then..unbelievable..#23, 28, 29...open your Bible..Have you found it yet....I'm done with your whining mate..
Jesus said to pluck out your eye is it causes you to lust.

why do you still have 2 eyes ?
 

kcnalp

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@Scoot ..another example in scripture of self-defensive measures....

In Luke again...verse Luke 11:21 "But no one can enter the strong man's house and plunder his goods unless he first binds the strong man"
The obvious question is why would an intruder have to bind the strong man? He was armed, and was ready to defend himself and property at all costs.

He was not a 'weak' or a passive man that was careless in not protecting his own life and his property. Care-free and believing that's God's will, or really their own selfish will is to just stand by and get shot up and become what they think is being a martyr for the Lord. Far from it. These Christians carry a personal extra doctrine and religion of peace and passiveness that is of their own creation and not of the Father's will. And each situation is different for different people..the Spirit usually intervenes in this discussion.

Then there is Mark 3:27......the same as Luke 11:21

BL..you should be armed and ready to defend your property, family and own life.

more to come @Scoot ..APAK
No way does that even come close to what you're saying.
 

ChristisGod

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Did you forget this?
Matthew 26:52 (NKJV)
52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
its called "cherry picking" and eisegesis- reading his own ideas into scripture and ripping passages from their context. he is practicing this:

a text without the context is a pretext for a prooftext.
 

kcnalp

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@Scoot ..before going on any further in this topic of discussion, I have to bring up the famous 'turn the other cheek' verse that has been paraded around as the verse that trumps those that think they should defend themselves by taking offensive action and the wearing of arms etc. Those that use it to justify disarming folks, misuse scripture; intentionally or out of ignorance. Their aim is to place guilt and shame and to disband others of these weapons. Many heathens and non-Christians love to use it as they twist it to their own purposes, many Globalists, the Papacy and UN types...along with unfortunately many misguided Christians.

Ok,,to the verses of Matt 5:38-42..it seems simple although is is not...

Now the way it was originally spoken and written is all important. And English translations into their sentence have done no justice to it at all. Mades it confusing and controversial.

In verse 38, Jesus re-introduces the historical idea of getting revenge justice in kind for harm done to another. Justice, personal and communal was served this way. And still considered the way in Jesus's time. People killed another if they killed someone else and it was justifiable etc. This was more than just resisting evil people. It is important to know this law and tradition was beyond just resisting evil - for the next verses.

Jesus does not criticize this form of justice at all. He is using it to contrast and as a backdrop for what he is about to say in the next verse, verse 39. Verse 39 is not connected to verse 38. It is directly connected to verse 40.

The act of resisting evil (person) verse 39, in the strictest sense, means short of taking offensive action and not actually killing someone else. There is a distinct difference. The translated Greek for resistance and meaning is precise and does not mean going beyond resisting into killing or maiming someone. It means just that, resisting as in defending without fighting back and especially taking offensive action. I guess many people were trigger-happy many times and their acts were not justifiable, same goes for today as well.

So in verse 40, Jesus introduces a NEW concept based on a tradition already practiced in society. To clarify what is justifiable and not. This concept is actually practiced today and is biblically based.

Have you considered what the ritual or act of slapping someone on the cheek with a hand or a glove or even spitting on the side of the face meant? It is not only a Jew tradition per sa, of Jesus' time, others used it for the same reason. Now Jesus introduces this tradition with a twist. He now says do not get revenge as in a tooth for a tooth revenge form of justice he just spoke of, in verse 38, where you must go beyond resisting evil to offensive action. No, he says do not resist evil when someone slaps you on a cheek. He means that when someone INSULTS you, not threatens you with bodily harm as many think it says, to not resist this evil gesture. Let them keep insulting you as in the giving of the other cheek. The slapping of the face especially in public was considered the sign of utmost insult and shame for the receiver.

This saying has NOTHING to do with allowing someone to harm you then attempt to completely destroy you, physically, mentally, and even spiritually to the point where you need to take offensive action, that is justifiable. The world has used this verse to support their view that firearms and tools that can kill is not supported in the Bible. They are 'dead' wrong.



I guess I need to connect all these last 3 posts with the justification for National war etc

Bless you,

APAK
So you are a Greek expert and you can challenge our English Bibles? It's perfectly clear.
 

APAK

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Did you forget this?
Matthew 26:52 (NKJV)
52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
No, I did not forget it. It was not necessary as it just accented what I already said. It was not crucial to my point. I guess because you asked it you do not know what it means yourself then?

For a change, why don't you do some work for a change and attempt to explain it to me in light of what I said already on the subject when Jesus was in the Garden being arrested?

For that manner, can @Christophany also please explain it to me as you both already know what it means, right? By the way you have to also explain verses 53 and 54 to keep the context straight, especially because both of you know this already as I was accused of not following and even twisting context.

I wager either one of you do not know what Matt 26:52-54 means and therefore you shall just prove my point that you both just whine and do not contribute nothing to the discussion.

My expectations are low in your response(s)..

APAK