Perpetual virginity of Mary!

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Mungo

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I have tried to explain this before....you might say I have a dry sense of humor or a weird sense of humor. Either way I have no reason to put you down....sarcasm....guilty as charged, as a expression of humor.

Jewish sources....as a child I had a lot of Jewish friends in University City, Mo and have had Jewish friends all my life. Early in my studies I realized that you could not understand the Bible unless you understood biblical Judaism. There is a very good reason for that, most of the main characters of the Bible are Jewish, so knowing that perspective is important. Although interesting, I know enough about Judaism to know that you do not want to mix the Jewish religion with the Christian religion. Christ warned about this when talking about the new wine in old wine skins.

When I was in Washington DC I took courses and attended seminars at the Jewish Studies at the American University and also over a course of a few years took courses out of Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Just the study of the 613 Mosaic Laws is a daunting task, but worth while.

The truth is important but after having so many fingers in the pie over the last 2000 years it is like untangling that giant ball of twine in the Guinness book of world records and Ripley's believe or not. Like Christianity that ball of twine has sat out in the weather for a long time and a lot of people have contributed to it. Getting to the core, getting to the truth takes some effort.

Still, the fact that Miriam was not a perpetual virgin does not take away from the fact that, she is the most blessed of women, holy and favored of God, and a perpetual agent of God that blessed the believers for nearly 2000 years. I do not believe in Miriam, I am a witness. I love her, pray to her and look forward to seeing her again.

But virginity has nothing to do with physical or religious purity or piety. A woman's standing with God is not downgraded because she marries and has children. Mommies are just as pure and favored as any other women. This virgin belief has done great harm to Christianity, to women's status in society and in the Church. The core of this belief is sacrilegious to God Himself. God's first commandment and the only commandment He repeated over and over in the Torah was to be fruitful and multiply. It was among the promises that He made to his favored. The belief that sexual desire, the functions of the "private parts"' and procreation, is of the devil....is sacrilegious. I know it is preached from the pulpit that Man corrupted the sexual union but you will not find that statement in the scriptures. If it were, God would not have kept repeating this commandment in the Torah.

Physically men and women are not equal, but in God's eyes, as believers, they are equal. All the false beliefs we now have were thought up by men. If women were considered equals in the Church, stood side by side with men as leaders, we would not have as many false beliefs.


OK, so you know all about Judaism and Jewish web sites are rubbish.
Well, believe that if you like.
 

Grailhunter

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OK, so you know all about Judaism and Jewish web sites are rubbish.
Well, believe that if you like.

Does it matter what I know?
Truth is truth.
The fact is, like i said, most of what the whole Bible is about, is about Jews and Jewish people. In the Gospels Christ, a Jew, is mostly talking to Jews about Judaism. The rest of the New Testament is still mostly Jewish-Christian men talking about Christianity. Would it only make common sense to understand the roots of their perspectives. The more you know, the more you understand.

The New Testament is an abbreviated history of the first 65 years of Christianity....the Christians and the Jews have nearly 2000 years of history after the biblical era. History is important and it can be enlightening.

The best thing you can do is try to prove me wrong. Not a debate with me....start your own research.
 

Renniks

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You are doing it again. Mary didn't say she would not do something until a future event.
Better to quote what scripture actually says not make up stuff.

Have you read the two posts I referred you to?
They explain the point you are attempting to make.
What don't you understand about they didn't come together until the child was born? It's not hard.
 

theefaith

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Neither of these say Peter is the head of the church, though.

matt 10:2 the first is Peter
If he administer the kingdom He does so in the place of Christ, vicariously

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

theefaith

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Wow, that's a stretch! Funny, I don't see the diciples believing in Mary, but Jesus. Where did any of them ever ask Mary to pray for them? You guys love to spin verses into saying stuff that's not there. Cults do that, you know.

her charity is s great that you don’t have to ask, she sees a need and satisfys it
 

theefaith

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So, the Bible can not be read by the common man? The common man should be punished up to and including death for simply reading the Bible? Wow, nice doctrine you have there.

happy for you to read but you have no authority to make your own faith!

Acts 2:42 eph 4:5
 

theefaith

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No, it just says no sex at that point in time. It doesn't say she remained a Virgin forever.

it in the present tense and and she is identified as a Virgin in scripture and these never change
 

theefaith

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Miriam is Holy….purity and goodness is not defined by virginity…. mommies are still good people. It wasn’t but a few years back that sons were told by their father’s to only marry a virgin! Now that I have ticked off the Protestants and Catholics you can go and look these things up. Or go on living a lie.

For the Catholic religion it became a systematic thing, marital intercourse became regulated as expressed in the flowchart below.


*************************Flowchart for marital intercourse******************


View attachment 10890

The divinity of Jesus is defined by virginity!

God miraculously created Her without original sin, God the Holy Spirit miraculously conceived in Her, God the son was miraculously born of Her and preserved Her a Virgin, the Bible says she is a Virgin Lk 1:27

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

theefaith

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reply to you
You said Mary in no way contributes to our salvation, then I suppose eve did no contribute to our fall and loss of salvation?

pilate and the soliders and Jews who cryed creation crucify Him also contributed to our salvation so Mary who found our salvation Lk 1:28 and consented to our salvation Lk 1:38 and provided us with our savior and He is with Her! The lord is with you! Lk 1:28
All generations call Her blessed! So join in the chorus!
 

theefaith

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exactly she did what the religious pharisees did to JESUS . Oh we cant put him to death , but we sure can deliver him over to one WHO WILL .
That is rome for ya too . They tried to play all innocent , yet they did to the true church what the pharisees did to JESUS .
With many a popes support . And they say the popes were the mouth piece for GOD . I dont think so .

lk 10:16 Jesus to His apostles

what pray tell is the true church
 

Jane_Doe22

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happy for you to read but you have no authority to make your own faith!

Acts 2:42 eph 4:5
For the record: nobody "makes their own faith".

A person deeply studying the scriptures and praying with is all about listening to Him and being guided by Him -- that's what it is to be a Christian. It's the exact opposite of "making your own faith" willy-nilly like you're portraying it.
 

Grailhunter

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The divinity of Jesus is defined by virginity!
Most women are virgins before they have sex....no mystery there. The scriptures do not describe her as a virgin during her pregnancy and certainly not after she delivered Yeshua.

God miraculously created Her without original sin, God the Holy Spirit miraculously conceived in Her, God the son was miraculously born of Her and preserved Her a Virgin, the Bible says she is a Virgin Lk 1:27

The doctrine of original sin is a false doctrine. The phrase "Original Sin" does not appear in the scriptures, nor does the context of the doctrine appear in the scriptures.

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children. Advertising For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

A lot of the Church Father's were ate up with misogyny and the belief that desire, nudity, sex, and women were instruments of temptation thus ruled by Satan. So between this and the false doctrine or Original Sin they had to adopt non biblical beliefs to account for the holiness of Miriam. That is the way it is with lies, you have to tell more lies to cover for the first.

It is hard to measure the harm this caused Christianity. Millions and millions of female lives ruined, women desegregated in society and Christianity. Millions tortured and murdered at the hands of the Church. This belief lead to the worst atrocities this world has ever known....

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

Shrine of the virgin womb! Now that is one you are not going to see in the scriptures. Definitely sounds Pagan.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
Carnal intercourse! Certainly made by Satan and every mother is cursed....because of carnal intercourse! Lock up your daughters lest they go to hell when they have sex with their husbands..,..Is your mother in hell?

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

There is nothing in that angelic revelation that indicated that Miriam would not be his wife....A husband does not violate his wife by making love to her. Yes, he knew that the baby within her was from God, that is why the scriptures say he waited. Jewish marriages are consummated by the actual union, so if Joseph never came into her, they were never married and Christ would be an illegitimate child.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

Women are usually not virgins after they conceive. And the scriptures do not indicate that she was a virgin after she conceived. The scriptures do not indicate that she was a virgin during her pregnancy. The scriptures do not indicate that she was a virgin after she delivered Yeshua and then of course the phrase Virgin Mary does not appear in the scriptures. Miriam is blessed and holy and wonderful, but what sits between her legs does not define that....nor with any other woman. Mommies are good in the site of the Lord.
 
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Renniks

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it in the present tense and and she is identified as a Virgin in scripture and these never change
Yes present tense. Do you understand what present tense is?
If I say "I'm not an old man." Does it mean I will never be old? No, because it's in the present tense. For Mary to say: " "I am a Virgin." Does not in any reasonable person's mind equal: " I will remain a virgin forever."
 

amigo de christo

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lk 10:16 Jesus to His apostles

what pray tell is the true church
There are many lambs clustered here and there in groups . Those are the true beleivers . They dont gather under false men .
They gather with those who love JESUS , which means THE TRUTH , THE BIBLE and one another .
They mostly have fled the larger mainstream churches . cause they done sold out to the mother harlot and her unity .
Religion does as religion does , and people do as they do , but mark these words , lambs DO what JESUS SAID TO DO . and any
strange voice , that contradicts HIM , THEY FLEE . They warn against those voices too . Seasoned lambs protect the flock
from wolves . THEY DONT feed thier flocks to the harlot of wolves .Be encoruraged three faith . You are being prayed for my friend . Beware the dangers of the all seducing voice of the all inclusive harlot . She is deadly .
 

theefaith

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For the record: nobody "makes their own faith".

A person deeply studying the scriptures and praying with is all about listening to Him and being guided by Him -- that's what it is to be a Christian. It's the exact opposite of "making your own faith" willy-nilly like you're portraying it.
Then you would believe Thee faith
The apostles creed
The nicene creed
The athanasius creed
 

amigo de christo

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Yes present tense. Do you understand what present tense is?
If I say "I'm not an old man." Does it mean I will never be old? No, because it's in the present tense. For Mary to say: " "I am a Virgin." Does not in any reasonable person's mind equal: " I will remain a virgin forever."
Notice it also makes it very clear . ANd he knew her not , UNTIL AFTER . IF joseph have never known his wife . IT WOULD have said
and he never knew her , she was to remain a virgin . Instead it says HE knew her not TILL AFTER . which means HE DID Know HIS WIFE
after the birth of that child . Just throwing in a helping hand my friend .
 

Jane_Doe22

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Then you would believe Thee faith
The apostles creed
The nicene creed
The athanasius creed
theefaith you portray Catholicism as if it were a cult: as if all you're supposed to do is listen to sinful leaders (all humans are sinners) and the idea of a person thinking/studying/praying/have any relationship with Christ (you know, actually being a Christian) is the enemy.

A person studying for themselves is to be celebrated not scorned with smears of "making your own faith".
A person praying for themselves is to be celebrated not scorned with smears of "making your own faith".
A person following Christ for themselves is to be celebrated not scorned with smears of "making your own faith".
 
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Prayer Warrior

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theefaith you portray Catholicism as if it were a cult: as if all you're supposed to do is listen to sinful leaders (all humans are sinners) and the idea of a person thinking/studying/praying/have any relationship with Christ (you know, actually being a Christian) is the enemy.

A person studying for themselves is to be celebrated not scorned with smears of "making your own faith".
A person praying for themselves is to be celebrated not scorned with smears of "making your own faith".
A person following Christ for themselves is to be celebrated not scorned with smears of "making your own faith".
Well said! :)
 
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