To @DNB concerning the Deity of Christ...

[justbyfaith]

@DNB,

your "refutation" of the Trinity is completely wrapped up in your contention that the idea of the Trinity is "absurd".

That, in itself, is a non-sequitur, or some other logical fallacy.

Because, just because you think that the concept of the Trinity is absurd does not make it untrue.

As a matter of fact, the gospel of the crucifixion is considered to be absurd ("foolishness") by those who are perishing (1 Corinthians 1:18-25).

And yet, the gospel of the crucifixion is gospel, absolute truth.

And therefore, calling the doctrine of the Trinity absurd in no way refutes the reality of the doctrine.

It is a logical fallacy.

 

[friend of]

Once again, God says, "I am."

And so does Christ.

Case closed!

 

[DNB]

Once again, God says, "I am."

Not sure who you are addressing, maybe everyone, either way, I saw your first one and this, and am still unsure what your point is?
I don't think that anyone denies that fact that God told Moses to refer to Him as 'I Am'?

 

[dev553344]

...makes it a point to be practical, DW.
Sorry for the impatience, but I did stipulate what I felt was necessary to refute the position, or what I was willing to respond to.
This is crucial DW, the whole case for my position will lose its value, as in any thesis, if the main fundaments of the argument are not acknowledged nor addressed. Because, I believe that, for the most part, I precluded the necessity to address such isolated verses, when the over-arching principles that I stated, deny and undermine any notion that implies or infers a contrarian view.

You didn't prove anything scriptural. Did you back up your position with scripture, cause I don't think your opinion is going to go far here. Not when scripture says Jesus is God.

 

[DNB]

@DNB,

your "refutation" of the Trinity is completely wrapped up in your contention that the idea of the Trinity is "absurd".

That, in itself, is a non-sequitur, or some other logical fallacy.

Because, just because you think that the concept of the Trinity is absurd does not make it untrue.

As a matter of fact, the gospel of the crucifixion is considered to be absurd ("foolishness") by those who are perishing (1 Corinthians 1:18-25).

And yet, the gospel of the crucifixion is gospel, absolute truth.

And therefore, calling the doctrine of the Trinity absurd in no way refutes the reality of the doctrine.

It is a logical fallacy.

Non-Sequitur, again!
Just for the record, the Gospel of the Christ is not absurd, as Paul explicitly states this. To the shallow and reprobate it is absurd, as much as turning the other cheek is absurd to them, as much as considering others above oneself is absurd in their eyes. Speak your wisdom to fools, and they will mock you.
But, to us, Paul states, it is the wisdom of God, because we understand why, and the necessity for God to effectuate things in this manner. The trinity has done nothing more than to turn men, who typically have a rather high acumen, into babbling, ridiculous idiots when they try to defend, or show their understanding of the matter.
Your error is shameful!

 

[DNB]

You didn't prove anything scriptural. Did you back up your position with scripture, cause I don't think your opinion is going to go far here. Not when scripture says Jesus is God.

You sound extremely impetuous, DW. Yes, I'm being insulting, ...but hopefully constructively ...but, I don't think so in this case (you're scaring me now)?
Post # 2 was entirely Scriptural, and your jumping to ridiculous conclusions. There's no such thing as a god-man - for everything that defines humanity, is antithetical to that which defines deity - this is how we distinguish the difference between the two.
Nor, did God devise a plan for salvation that required Himself to pay the price for man, in order to propitiate Himself.
You sound absolutely, and unequivocally ludicrous . Get serious and start resolving these idiotic contradictions and absurdities, before you start trying to defend your incomprehensible and implausible theory, with out-of-context and isolated verses.
Yes, I feel exasperated again.

 

[justbyfaith]

Call it a non-sequitur if you wish; those who are looking on will see that the following scripture follows logically from your statement that the doctrine of the Trinity is "absurd"; as an argument that your estimation doesn't make the doctrine untrue.

1Co 1:18, For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19, For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
1Co 1:20, Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21, For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22, For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
1Co 1:23, but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness.
1Co 1:24, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25, Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

I accidentally pulled that out of the nkjv...just as good.

 

[101G]

Once again, God says, "I am."

Correct, and God said, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

I AM "he?"

Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

I here is a single person right, the "I AM he" correct, he said, "therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
in what DAY, did "I AM he", speak? answer, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

how plain can one be? and that was Jesus speaking, "I am he"


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[DNB]

1Co 1:23, but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness.
1Co 1:24, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Which part of verse 24 do you not understand? Paul is not calling God's atonement foolish, he is saying that God fashioned it in a manner that will repulse the foolish and the proud, but attract the wise and humble - for their perception and depth of understanding enlightens them to the wisdom of God.
JBF, I've just about had it on this thread.

 

[justbyfaith]

Which part of verse 24 do you not understand? Paul is not calling God's atonement foolish, he is saying that God fashioned it in a manner that will repulse the foolish and the proud, but attract the wise and humble - for their perception and depth of understanding enlightens them to the wisdom of God.
JBF, I've just about had it on this thread.

I know that the crucifixion (the atonement) is not foolish in all reality; however those who were not being saved considered it to be foolish;

Just as the doctrine of the Trinity is not foolish in reality; but those who are not being saved consider it to be foolish.

If you feel exasperated, I can only hope that means that I'm getting through to you.

 

[dev553344]

You sound extremely impetuous, DW. Yes, I'm being insulting, ...but hopefully constructively ...but, I don't think so in this case (you're scaring me now)?
Post # 2 was entirely Scriptural, and your jumping to ridiculous conclusions. There's no such thing as a god-man - for everything that defines humanity, is antithetical to that which defines deity - this is how we distinguish the difference between the two.
Nor, did God devise a plan for salvation that required Himself to pay the price for man, in order to propitiate Himself.
You sound absolutely, and unequivocally ludicrous . Get serious and start resolving these idiotic contradictions and absurdities, before you start trying to defend your incomprehensible and implausible theory, with out-of-context and isolated verses.
Yes, I feel exasperated again.

The fact that Jesus was man and God, as I have demonstrated as scriptural in post #36, which you probably just ignored (sigh), and also resurrected himself, put a damn on death and his fear mongering, the devil. Nothing contradicts the divinity of God here as you have suggested. In fact it proves the divinity of Christ and the fact that he resurrected himself shows that he is a God.

John 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He was commanded, not empowered, by the Father to resurrect himself.

I don't like the fact that you're wasting everyone's time here stating false beliefs and heresy. And BTW, the only reason I'm posting these scriptures is for new Christians so you don't confuse them with your herisy.

 

[Truman]

Not sure who you are addressing, maybe everyone, either way, I saw your first one and this, and am still unsure what your point is?
I don't think that anyone denies that fact that God told Moses to refer to Him as 'I Am'?

Last night as I was reading this thread, God told me to post that. When I did, I was overwhelmed with the reverential awe of God. We were hoping it would spread. For the third and last time, the Most High God says, "I Am." Shalom.

 

[DNB]

I know that the crucifixion (the atonement) is not foolish in all reality; however those who were not being saved considered it to be foolish;

Just as the doctrine of the Trinity is not foolish in reality; but those who are not being saved consider it to be foolish.

If you feel exasperated, I can only hope that means that I'm getting through to you.

The trinity is utter diabolical nonsense, it turns men into fools every time that they try to explain any facet of it, in relation to Christian theology. This is not the case with the Atonement, or any other divinely orchestrated precept, law or doctrine.
No, exasperated means becoming contemptuous in this case.

 

[DNB]

The fact that Jesus was man and God, as I have demonstrated as scriptural in post #36, which you probably just ignored (sigh), and also resurrected himself, put a damn on death and his fear mongering, the devil. Nothing contradicts the divinity of God here as you have suggested. In fact it proves the divinity of Christ and the fact that he resurrected himself shows that he is a God.

John 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He was commanded, not empowered, by the Father to resurrect himself.

I don't like the fact that you're wasting everyone's time here stating false beliefs and heresy. And BTW, the only reason I'm posting these scriptures is for new Christians so you don't confuse them with your herisy.

You are evasive, impetuous and verging on childish. You haven't proven a thing simply by citing a verse or two from Scripture. The trinity is the most enigmatic, incomprehensible, Scripturally non-didactic and non-explicit doctrine in all of Christendom. There is not a leading trinitarian proponent throughout history, who has ever claimed that the principle is taught explicitly and systematically in the Bible. And yet you, feel that by citing barely a sentence or two, suffices to substantiate, again, the most illogical, incomprehensible and implausible doctrine in all of Christian theology?
Again DW, you sound extremely childish and incompetent when you present your thesis in such a manner - this is an undeniable fact.

 

[DNB]

Last night as I was reading this thread, God told me to post that. When I did, I was overwhelmed with the reverential awe of God. We were hoping it would spread. For the third and last time, the Most High God says, "I Am." Shalom.

Ron, you sound deluded, seriously. Don't even try to tell me that God spoke to you, as you espouse such meaningless nonsense.
Unless, your little epiphany is asserting that God exists, yes, that's true. But, again, you're hearing ungodly voices in your head if that's the extent of God's revelation to you.
Judging by your 'likes' on this thread, I'm assuming that your cryptic and discreet approach is trying to convey your belief in the trinity? Yes, I'm still not sure?
Either way, like I said, no one denies YHWH. So again, I have absolutely no idea how you think that citing such a trite phrase (in this context), supports your position of the trinity?
Again, God did not speak to you - I'd be weary of where you claim your inspiration comes from, as it's no small issue to blaspheme God.

 

[friend of]

Believing in the Trinity is blasphemy now? Now I've heard everything

 

[APAK]

@justbyfaith I see you have me on ignore. I guess there was something I said that must have hit a nerve of disgust, maybe our of insecurity or fear? I guess it has to do with the subject of this thread, as I also am not a Trinitarian card carrier and I also am not a JW member.

So I now invite you to throw some of that scripture you have been throwing over to @DNB in defense of your triad theory. I will discuss each one of them with you if you are truly sincere and have the patience to 'see' my side. I already know your side already, known it for many decades, although I believe you still need to see my side.

So are you on, or not?

APAK

 

[DNB]

Believing in the Trinity is blasphemy now? Now I've heard everything

Maybe you've been sheltered too much, or associating with the wrong people?

 

[DNB]

@justbyfaith I see you have me on ignore. I guess there was something I said that must have hit a nerve of disgust, maybe our of insecurity or fear? I guess it has to do with the subject of this thread, as I also am not a Trinitarian card carrier and I also am not a JW member.

So I now invite you to throw some of that scripture you have been throwing over to @DNB in defense of your triad theory. I will discuss each one of them with you if you are truly sincere and have the patience to 'see' my side. I already know your side already, known it for many decades, although I believe you still need to see my side.

So are you on, or not?

APAK

Thanks APAK, I appreciate the support, and am not sure how I got drawn into this in the first place? But, I hope that you know what you're getting into? JBF is extremely unreasonable, and hard to get past square one with. You'll go in circles ad-infinitum, and I anticipate that you may end up becoming rather frustrated quite early in your discussion.
But, I believe that you're a bit of a veteran at this in more ways than one, so you're probably well prepared for the wiles and schemes of the stubborn, deluded and indoctrinated.
Good luck, here's to true and unadulterated monotheism!

 

[Truman]

Ron, you sound deluded, seriously. Don't even try to tell me that God spoke to you, as you espouse such meaningless nonsense.
Unless, your little epiphany is asserting that God exists, yes, that's true. But, again, you're hearing ungodly voices in your head if that's the extent of God's revelation to you.
Judging by your 'likes' on this thread, I'm assuming that your cryptic and discreet approach is trying to convey your belief in the trinity? Yes, I'm still not sure?
Either way, like I said, no one denies YHWH. So again, I have absolutely no idea how you think that citing such a trite phrase (in this context), supports your position of the trinity?
Again, God did not speak to you - I'd be weary of where you claim your inspiration comes from, as it's no small issue to blaspheme God.

Hi. I stand by my word that I repeated what the Holy Spirit told me to say. You mean you don't hear God except through your interpretation of His word? Have you never received the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Have you ever asked Him for it?
I see the word of God as being the riverbed for the Spirit of God to flow in. At least that's my experience. If one is happy with a dry riverbed, I guess that's their business.
I believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I also believe Deuteronomy 6:4 which says, "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one." The discrepancy, I believe, is caused by a difference in revelation. In nature, God is one. Shalom.