SinSinSin

[marks]

Ascribing false witness (a textbook sin) to someone who is merely having trouble understanding or communicating with you might not be the wisest course (it is very similar to calling someone an idolater or an adulterer), even if they come off as offensive. We are to be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves, no?

I am admittedly putting a fine point on this, while still allowing for something different to happen, I hope!! I have no doubt but that there are times I should be gentler.

But the reason I speak so is that this is a person with whom I've discussed this many times over quite a period of time, in much depth and detail, and if such person were at this stage of the game to ascribe to me errors that have been dealt with in our discussions over and over, well, let me be wrong, I will happily take the fault!

And let each of us consider our words, what they say, what they mean, what we are intending to say maybe between the lines.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Because the church knows this through and through. That's not where the church needs to be educated. They need to be educated about what genuine salvation through faith in Christ looks like. So they can know if they really have it or not and are prepared to meet Christ when he comes back.

Your concern is that we should all of us who think we are born again, think we know God, that we should doubt whether this is true or not, if we have ongoing issues with sin. Right?

I want to continue to ask you about the testimony of the Holy Spirit with our spirit.

Romans 8:15-16
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Do you find this true in yourself? You need not answer me, really, this is a question we should each have an answer for ourselves.

The Spirit has a testimony concerning us, and we have a testimony, and these are together inside us declaring that God is our Father, we are His children.

Much love!

 

[Gideons300]

Holds up sign... DO NOT FEED THE DUCKS!

Gideon... You are the only person I have ever heard share a testimony about having a supernatural experience with God... and translating that into an obsession regarding the behaviour of other Christians. It is so sad to me that you claim to have seen/felt/heard... yet you remain a legalistic judge of others.

Apparently... you seem to feel that you repented for your SIN adequately... therefore God showed up for you... and it is now your job to tell others they need to adequately repent.

Hello my friend and favorite Canadien critic! I hope the day finds you well.

So, if you would be so kind, I would like to know your interpretation of the verse I shared. Why would God include over a dozen serious warnings in the Word if we have nothing to be warned about? As to why God visited me, now 14 years ago, I have no clue. But you misunderstand both what I am sharing and my motive for doing so.

There is a place of safety and security for believers, and it is not that repenting 'harder' will please God. It is simply that it is a man who truly longs to se set free from the grip of sin who is prepared to do the one thing God asks of us..... to believe that our old nature really did die when Christ died. We can reckon with our heads that we are no longer old natured people and that we now are totally new. But these truths are empowered by faith and faith is found when we reach a crisis point where deliverance is not optional, but life and death.

Do you believe we are in danger if we willfully sin, with no desire to be freed from its grip? The Holy Spirit chastens us when we slip because His desire is that we walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. If, when we sin, we are not chastened, not corrected, what does the Bible tell us concerning this?

My words are words of love and deep concern, not judgment. To those hungry to be freed from their besetting sins, God has an amazing walk of overcoming for them, but it is activated by faith, which comes from HUNGER to please Him in all things.

But there is no doubt that multitudes today have been lulled into a place where the Spirit cannot convict them because they see no real danger of continuing in sin, and the root of that sin is unbelief in the fullness of God's salvation.

He wants holy children, and has promised to actually CAUSE us to obey Him The question is.... do we want that and then, do we believe He can do what He has promised to do?

blessings to you.

Gids

 

[marks]

Why? Because we have an enemy trying to rob us.

The book of Hebrews has some of the most explicit warnings in the entire Bible as to our need to be vigilant, and the enemy knows this. So he has concocted a twisting of truth to somehow try to convince us that these warnings somehow are not meant to apply to us. And if we bite into that apple, we are putting ourselves at great risk. We are instructed not to be ignorant of his devices for a reason. This is a warning from God Himself. I pray we finally take it to heart and seek His face.

"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 3:6-14

Why is sin talked about in discussing salvation? Because sin hardens hearts and it with the heart we believe unto salvation. The very mentality that says "Well I am saved none the less, so I am not going to sweat a little sin. That is being 'sin conscious' and shows unbelief." is an afront to the Word of God and the corrections, exhortations and warnings God gives us through the Holy Spirit.

Warnings such as these are not only found in Hebrews but in over a dozen other places in the New Testament by Paul, Peter, James, John and Jude. Ignoring the warnings in Hebrews will be no excuse when God has given us plenty of others to back them up and insure we are not walking in disobedience.

If we are not receiving chastenings when we sin, if we refuse to repent because we have been convinced we are safe regardless, God tells us we are illegitimate children and not sons. It is not too late to break before God and draw near to Him, for He has a way to cause us to obey Him. The only catch is...... we have to want deliverance from our sin nature as badly as Paul did in Romans 7.

blessings,

Gideon

Something they taught me what I was learning to drive, a warning to me. They said, you tend to steer towards where you eyes are looking. That's why drunk drivers tend to hit cars stopped on the freeway. It's unusual to the driver is looking, and being impaired, they don't correct for that tendency.

But you don't have to be drunk to do this, we all do it if we're not careful.

Do you feel yourself in the Master/servant relationship with God? More like a son?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Grace is the Holy Spirit. The power in the Trinity. That is why the gifts of the Holy Spirit are called power gifts/charisma gifts. I abide in Jesus, and Jesus ABIDES IN ME. We are inseparable. I can't have some "force" without Jesus. And, btw, I am NOT a fan of Joel Olsteen.

What does Joel Osteen have to do with this?

Grace is God's kindness and favor.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

If, when we sin, we are not chastened, not corrected, what does the Bible tell us concerning this?

It tells us that in such a case we are bastards and not true sons.

 

[BarneyFife]

Thanks for your reply.


Deut 5:
[1] And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
[2] The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
[3] The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
[4] The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
[5] (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the work of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,
[6] I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[7] Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
[8] Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
[9] Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
[10] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
[11] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[12] Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
[13] Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
[14] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
[15] And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
[16] Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
[17] Thou shalt not kill.
[18] Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
[19] Neither shalt thou steal.
[20] Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[21] Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
[22] These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
[23] And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;
[24] And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

THE LAW...Is this the Specific Law, "THE LAW" repeated over and over IN Scripture?

Is this "THE LAW" ... People repeatedly ACCUSE "other people" of violating?

Is this "THE LAW" ... IF Violated...IS an "ACT" CALLED "A SIN" ?

I sense a trap.

 

[BarneyFife]

@BarnyFife and @marks

Maybe this will help.

Grace, itself, is divine power 2 Peter 1:2-4
But we receive it without merit on our part, just repentance of what we cannot do on our own.
That is when Jesus gives us His own power, the Spirit, to make us born again with the laws of God written on our hearts, so that we CAN do righteousness as part of our new divine nature that has taken on eternal life. (The body (our shell) must still die and take on immortality).

I can see grace as being very powerful indeed but I don't see grace and power as being synonymous. I hope this clarifies my earlier statements regarding this matter.

 

[BarneyFife]

-

 

[ChristisGod]

I can see grace as being very powerful indeed but I don't see grace and power as being synonymous. I hope this clarifies my earlier statements regarding this matter.

me either grace and power are two different words with different meanings.

and just because they are used together in a verse does not make them the same as someone is trying to do with the words. its like saying grace and peace mean the same thing since they are often used together lol.

 

[marks]

Really? A "license to sin" is a "license to be a sexual deviant"?

And where exactly does a sexual deviant "get such a license"?

There is not such thing as a license to be a sexual deviant. Sexual deviance is a corruption of the flesh, just like the tendency to lie, or to snap at someone with irritation. The tendency to worry, whatever, it's all the same flesh.

There's no such "license" to be damaged goods, sorry, but we all are, in one way or another.

And this brings up another problem with an obsession with sin and comparing ourselves to others. "I'm saintly in my own eyes" seems to me to be a foolish thing to say.

Is our mind fully conformed to Christ? Whatever is not - whatever it is - if from the flesh. And that is sin. Which is what Jesus saves us from. Just because one sin looks prettier than another doesn't change the corruption from which both come.

Whether we're talking a sexual perversion, or trusting in credit cards to provide for your needs, either is the work of the flesh, and is overcome by faith.

Much love!

 

[TheslightestID]

Your claim:
People claim they have a License to sin.

Show me that claim.

 

[Gideons300]

Something they taught me what I was learning to drive, a warning to me. They said, you tend to steer towards where you eyes are looking. That's why drunk drivers tend to hit cars stopped on the freeway. It's unusual to the driver is looking, and being impaired, they don't correct for that tendency.

But you don't have to be drunk to do this, we all do it if we're not careful.

Do you feel yourself in the Master/servant relationship with God? More like a son?

Much love!

Mark, Jesus tells us to watch, for the enemy of our souls is out to steal from us. I am certainly not espousing being so self critical that we do not walk in the rest He has for us. But I do not think it an exaggeration that the accepted adage that holiness and entire sanctification will 'just happen' as we go on about our lives and go to church on Sundays is a false assumption.

Willful sin is a faith killer and we must not minimize it if we have fallen into its grip. Should such a one be 'sin-conscious' in such a place? How can we not be if the Spirit of God inside us is chastening us?

How can one be vigilant against the devil if one is not conscious he is out there trying to influence us to yield to his temptations? Yes, we are to look to Jesus, but is not a primary reason is that He has promised is not only to forgive us, but also to deliver us from the power of darkness itself?

My take is that much of the modern church has so shied away from preaching against sin that warnings, corrections, exhortations are now looked at as 'negatives' leading to legalism. We preach grace, but not a grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts.

The hell-fire and brimstone preachers of olden days were out of balance and tried to make people obey from fear or duty. But today, we have seen the pendulum swing far to the other side, where grace and forgiveness is preached, yet with no balance to insure we do not take grace for granted. Obedience has become an unattainable goal since no one is perfect. There is danger on both sides. The narrow way is the sliver of light between them.

blessings,

Gids

 

[Michiah-Imla]

what do you expect by following he law? do you think this is what saves you?

What do I expect from following the law?

I don’t expect anything. I follow the law because I love the Lord:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And this benefit also happens to come with that as well:

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

What saved me to begin with was repenting and believing the gospel. Keeping the law before this would not avail me to salvation.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Romans 4
King James Version

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:13-15
King James Version

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 3
King James Version

3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:10-13
King James Version

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 3:23-25
King James Version

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

2 Corinthians 3:6-8
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

YOur understanding of the verse you posted needs much clarification.

All this text that you copied and pasted pertains to the unsaved person. The unsaved person cannot establish the law until he believes the gospel for salvation FIRST. Then he can establish the law.

You are the one that needed clarification.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

why would you refuse to explain the gospel ?

have you ever shared the gospel before ?

Do you get joy out of being that person described 1 Timothy 6:4?

“He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings”

Try to provoke one unto love and to good works; not envy, strife, and railings.

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you get joy out of being that person described 1 Timothy 6:4?

“He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings”

Try to provoke one unto love and to good works; not envy, strife, and railings.

And defining the gospel has nothing to do with the above . Way to twist those scriptures.

The Bible also says be ready to give an answer to those who ask you with patience and gentleness.

hope this helps !!!

 

[marks]

But I do not think it an exaggeration that the accepted adage that holiness and entire sanctification will 'just happen' as we go on about our lives and go to church on Sundays is a false assumption.

I don't know about "will just happen", I think there's more to it than that. We play our part. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" is our part, but katergadzomai, perform the task, that's what we do, God, who works withing, ergon, that's the real Work. God does the work in us, and we put into our lives what He is doing.

That's how we learn the fuller meaning of Scripture, we put into use what we learn, and we will understand more.

Willful sin is a faith killer and we must not minimize it if we have fallen into its grip. Should such a one be 'sin-conscious' in such a place? How can we not be if the Spirit of God inside us is chastening us?

What sin is not willful? I've heard people parsing sins like this, but in that God has freed us from the power of sin, any sin can be avoided by our choosing, therefore, even a sin that may seem benign to you is NOT from the Spirit, and IS from the flesh.

It's not that sin is a faith killer, although with a legalist view, it becomes that, rather, sin is because we've faltered in our faith. If we aren't walking by trusting in Jesus for everything we need, then we're not walking in faith, and sin will be the result.

And if we are His children, He will certainly disciple us however is needed.

But this is of course a personal matter between Parent and child.

How can one be vigilant against the devil if one is not conscious he is out there trying to influence us to yield to his temptations? Yes, we are to look to Jesus, but is not a primary reason is that He has promised is not only to forgive us, but also to deliver us from the power of darkness itself?

Yes, be vigilant! Check your every thought to see if it conforms to the truth of God's Word.

Forgiving us, delivering from darkness, let's not stop there.

We look to Jesus for those, yes, but let's look to Jesus primarily for His promise to live with Him. These are part of the process, but life with God is the goal. At least that's my goal.

My take is that much of the modern church has so shied away from preaching against sin that warnings, corrections, exhortations are now looked at as 'negatives' leading to legalism. We preach grace, but not a grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts.

I suggest to you what suggest to anyone. If that's your church, maybe you need to find a different church. There is much that calls itself Christian that isn't.

True freedom from sin, without legalism, is found in trusting in Jesus, that He did everything that had to be done to completely and permanently reconcile us to God. Then, without any self-condemnation, our hearts spring open to God, to receive from Him whatever He chooses to give, included that abundant life we all want.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, are we no longer forgiven if we fail to keep the law perfectly?

No, lol. Unless your failure to keep the law is because you don't believe in Christ, but just think you do.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

And defining the gospel has nothing to do with the above . Way to twist those scriptures.

The Bible also says be ready to give an answer to those who ask you with patience and gentleness.

hope this helps !!!

You are correct.

But I perceive that you are just being crafty with your question.

I believe you are seeking something out of my mouth that you might accuse with (Luke 11:54).

I perceive that your gospel is false because you believe you can never lose your salvation. So why would I answer a question regarding the gospel from one who has already shown himself to be in error regarding it?

You have already dismissed the true biblical salvation so I won’t be able to convince you otherwise anyway.