TRUTH
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
This is one of God's truths that I hold most tightly to, that He does not change.
"We blossom and flourish like leaves on a tree, then wither and perish but nought changeth thee!"
Much love!
Irwin Fletcher
Active Member
My liberal sister-in-law once interviewed me for her college class, asking about whether I thought the Bible needed to be revised for modern considerations and what I thought would happen if that were done. The answer to the first question was no, I didn't think it needed to be revised and here is the answer to the second:
This has actually happened and is constantly happening today. Followers of the Bible all over the world are constantly revising or editing scripture. Some of this is formal, but most of it is informal. If you study church history, wherever and whenever the church holds to the authority if Scripture, the Church is strong and growing, often seeing miraculous things. Where churches teach and practice this in the personal lives of their believers, people's lives are changed and they have hope for the future. When the church turns it's back on scripture (changing the canon), it loses its ability to exist as a living thing, putting in its place something that is hollow which will ultimately die or disappear. We see this in the westward movement of the Gospel, where the center if Christian life is constantly moving west. Here in Turkey, we have an empty version of the faith that has little meaning, left behind by the remnants of Constantine's decision to nationalize Christianity. In Europe, you have a shell of Catholicism and Protestantism, where only a faithful few good onto the truth and most look upon Christianity with disdain. In America, many places have given into a corrupted view of the faith where the main emphasis can be something as diverse as materialism wrapped in Christian language or nothing but social ministry, with most "Christians" practicing their faith in hypocritical social clubs. Compare this to Asia, S. America and Africa, where the church is vibrant and alive across some whole countries. In short, we don't have to imagine this answer, we only have to look around.
This has actually happened and is constantly happening today. Followers of the Bible all over the world are constantly revising or editing scripture. Some of this is formal, but most of it is informal. If you study church history, wherever and whenever the church holds to the authority if Scripture, the Church is strong and growing, often seeing miraculous things. Where churches teach and practice this in the personal lives of their believers, people's lives are changed and they have hope for the future. When the church turns it's back on scripture (changing the canon), it loses its ability to exist as a living thing, putting in its place something that is hollow which will ultimately die or disappear. We see this in the westward movement of the Gospel, where the center if Christian life is constantly moving west. Here in Turkey, we have an empty version of the faith that has little meaning, left behind by the remnants of Constantine's decision to nationalize Christianity. In Europe, you have a shell of Catholicism and Protestantism, where only a faithful few good onto the truth and most look upon Christianity with disdain. In America, many places have given into a corrupted view of the faith where the main emphasis can be something as diverse as materialism wrapped in Christian language or nothing but social ministry, with most "Christians" practicing their faith in hypocritical social clubs. Compare this to Asia, S. America and Africa, where the church is vibrant and alive across some whole countries. In short, we don't have to imagine this answer, we only have to look around.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Me too Marks,
He is The Rock, and never moves, keeps us steady if we cling to Him.
And faithful????!! For reals bro
Cling I do!!Me too Marks,
He is The Rock, and never moves, keeps us steady if we cling to Him.
And faithful????!! For reals bro
This is so true. If you change the bible so suit those that say it's out-dated then you lose the truth, and if you lose the truth you lose Jesus. And what you have left is just a man-pleasing organisation of no use to God.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Much love!
Disagree with all of you....! LOL
I believe in the Living Word of God.
Granted we have to test what comes forward after the close of the Bible, but, put your thinking caps on and come up with a list of things that we have learned regarding morals, spoken and unspoken.
Disagree with all of you....! LOL
I believe in the Living Word of God.
Granted we have to test what comes forward after the close of the Bible, but, put your thinking caps on and come up with a list of things that we have learned regarding morals, spoken and unspoken.
The bibles says:
"Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by eating ceremonial foods, which is of no benefit to those who do so." Hebrews 13:7-9
So @Grailhunter are you disagreeing with this as well as us?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
All this is true for sure and certain. But the concept that the Bible was ever static is wrong. The storyline of the Bible was ever changing from start to finish. Not trying to rock your world just try to get you guys and gals to think about what changes occurred in the Bible and what changes occurred in Christianity after the close of the biblical era that were good and more moral.
I see many of the changes during the Biblical times, but what more recent do you have in mind?
Much love!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You are right there are a lot of changes in the Bible and I think they were planed by God.
Do you like weddings?
Where did I mention the bible? That's not the point of the OP. Jesus hasn't and will not change.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
So you are not saying anything Christ said in the Bible?
Your opening "poster" says Christianity does not progress.
I disagree with that.
It is a good discussion....not a negative.
Should you define change....
There is agreement here...do they understand what change means?
Do you believe progressive Christianity is okay then, that the church should preach a different gospel - one that suits everybody? If Jesus never changes, then why should Christianity? Do we add to the gospel? Do we take away from the gospel? And if so what? The truth is still the truth. The darkness is still all around us and the only way out of the darkness of captivity to sin is Jesus. And following God's law. And how has that changed?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Now a days progressive means communism...LOL
But Christianity did progress....if we walk it through history some of it we may not like, and some of it we may like, but a lot of it was a higher set of morals.
And that is the point I am bringing up, what has the Living Word of God taught us since the close of the biblical era.
Christ told His apostles that there were a lot things He needed to tell them but they could not bear it then.
No one grabbed God and tied and gagged Him and set Him in a corner.
God has been active over these 2000 years.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The Gospel and the New Testament does not change.
The question is, does the Living Word of God still teach us things? Did God have other things to teach us?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ok, lets start with a simple topic....
Slavery
Slavery was very common in the Biblical era. The topic of slavery comes up in various discussions. Historically as Christianity moves forward Christianity became popular with the slaves. But at no point does Christ or the Apostles denounce slavery.
Why?
The answer to this question is probably the answer to a few questions.
Slavery was part of the Old Testament....Jews owned slaves...the Mosaic Law did not speak against it, and in fact regulated it. A lot of people owned slaves.
This is true of the New Testament also. It is more or less the economic fabric of society at the time. For Christianity to speak against it at the time would have caused a lot of issues. This is one of the issues that when Christ said to them that He had things to tell them but they could not bear them then....I think this is one of the issues He was talking about.
Slavery continued in Christian cultures for many centuries. Eventually we came to know that that is not a good thing.
For example;
Luke 12:47-48
And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
Slavery
Slavery was very common in the Biblical era. The topic of slavery comes up in various discussions. Historically as Christianity moves forward Christianity became popular with the slaves. But at no point does Christ or the Apostles denounce slavery.
Why?
The answer to this question is probably the answer to a few questions.
Slavery was part of the Old Testament....Jews owned slaves...the Mosaic Law did not speak against it, and in fact regulated it. A lot of people owned slaves.
This is true of the New Testament also. It is more or less the economic fabric of society at the time. For Christianity to speak against it at the time would have caused a lot of issues. This is one of the issues that when Christ said to them that He had things to tell them but they could not bear them then....I think this is one of the issues He was talking about.
Slavery continued in Christian cultures for many centuries. Eventually we came to know that that is not a good thing.
For example;
Luke 12:47-48
And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Polygamy....the ownership of women.
In the Gospels when Christ was talking to people other than His own Apostles....most of the time He (a Jew) was talking to Jews about Judaism. You can count that up yourself. Although the Jews practiced polygamy for a another 1000 years after the biblical era, Christ and the Apostles were not going to bring up the topic of polygamy or denounce it, because it would have completely alienated the Jews. Now, Paul has to address it because some Jewish converts to Christianity had multiple wives, so he stipulate that in order to be a deacon (excuse me Bishop) you had to be the husband of one wife.
1st Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Now this issue did not come up with most Pagan converts (Gentiles) because most Pagans did not practice polygamy. Their issues with the Pagans was that they could not have casual sex.
So after the biblical era Christianity took a definitive stand against polygamy. So this was a moral improvement.
In the Gospels when Christ was talking to people other than His own Apostles....most of the time He (a Jew) was talking to Jews about Judaism. You can count that up yourself. Although the Jews practiced polygamy for a another 1000 years after the biblical era, Christ and the Apostles were not going to bring up the topic of polygamy or denounce it, because it would have completely alienated the Jews. Now, Paul has to address it because some Jewish converts to Christianity had multiple wives, so he stipulate that in order to be a deacon (excuse me Bishop) you had to be the husband of one wife.
1st Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Now this issue did not come up with most Pagan converts (Gentiles) because most Pagans did not practice polygamy. Their issues with the Pagans was that they could not have casual sex.
So after the biblical era Christianity took a definitive stand against polygamy. So this was a moral improvement.
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