TRUTH

[Pearl]

@Grailhunter .... With those brand new glasses that I just purchased... I READ.... JESUS is the same yesterday, today and forever.
If you do not believe Jesus is God.... I cannot help you. Pearl asked you guys to please start another thread and you ignored her request.
But... WHATEVER.

I'm done with it now Addy.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If the Children of God would only remember this! We are not to ad to teh knowledge of God, but to simply introduce the next generation to the one who needs no extra human commentary or addition!

 

[OzSpen]

You have stated this so well & concisely.

Ox

 

[Heart2Soul]

Amen × 1000!

 

[Amazed@grace]

The Gospel and the New Testament does not change.
The question is, does the Living Word of God still teach us things? Did God have other things to teach us?

Should we consider the passage that tells us the word is God is that what is actually the eternal unchanging word?

 

[Pearl]

The heart of Christianity is the same today as it's always been. The changes that have been mention earlier in thread are nothing to do with that heart of Christianity but rather they are of the world and how the world has changed. God will never change and nor will the message of the true Gospel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Should we consider the passage that tells us the word is God is that what is actually the eternal unchanging word?

The phrases "unchanging word" and "God is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow" is a warm fuzzy for fundamentalists. Malachi 3:6 It Sounds good, but what does it mean really? If the Mosaic Law says one thing in the Old Testament and Christ objects to it in the New Testament...what does that mean? Does that mean the word changed? Does it mean God changed His mind? Does it mean God changed? Christ objected to the Mosaic Law concerning divorce, saying that Moses permitted them to divorce their wives. Well does that mean that the Ten Commandments and the rest of the Mosaic Laws were laws of men...not God? Did God change His mind?

Same thing goes for the Mosaic Law concerning eye for eye .... life for life, Christ objected to this and said, turn the other cheek....
People...fundamentalists do not like change, even in the Bible, much less after the biblical era. They would like to think everything concerning Christianity was nailed down in Bible. That is simply not true. We learned that slavery and polygamy was wrong, we learned that women should not be forced to marry someone. And some Christians are still in the process of learning that women are human too. Considering the urgency in the New Testament that Christ was going to return very very soon, there was not a focus on getting married or a focus on the family. The focus was saving souls in "those last days." Paul suggested and preferred celibacy and gave up marriage as a concession. That concept was followed by church administration for quite awhile. (The Catholics still do it.) But Christians as a whole understood that, that would not work...So Christian beliefs became very focused on the family.

Also as time went on Christianity learned that families were a stabilizing factor in society and religion and was very important.
God is real and Christianity is founded on the reality of God. There is no reason to come up with fantasy beliefs. Those types of beliefs are not going to make sense and will always be questioned. There is no reason to believe that God retired after the close of the Bible, no reason to believe He had nothing further to tell us. That does not mean that God changed, it means there were things He needed to tell us that they could not bear then....just as the scriptures say.

So back to the unchanging word...what does it mean? We can debate what the unchanging word means. But what it can't mean, is that God never changes His mind. I can give you a few examples in the Old Testament where the scriptures literally say He changed His mind or recanted. Things changed between the Old Testament and New Testament and some try to go back to the Old Testament and Christianize it. It does not work because the Jews are still around and that is their religion and they were custodians of the Old Word of God long before Christianity came along.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Ok, lets start with a simple topic....
Slavery
Slavery was very common in the Biblical era. The topic of slavery comes up in various discussions. Historically as Christianity moves forward Christianity became popular with the slaves. But at no point does Christ or the Apostles denounce slavery.
Why?
The answer to this question is probably the answer to a few questions.
Slavery was part of the Old Testament....Jews owned slaves...the Mosaic Law did not speak against it, and in fact regulated it. A lot of people owned slaves.
This is true of the New Testament also. It is more or less the economic fabric of society at the time. For Christianity to speak against it at the time would have caused a lot of issues. This is one of the issues that when Christ said to them that He had things to tell them but they could not bear them then....I think this is one of the issues He was talking about.

Slavery continued in Christian cultures for many centuries. Eventually we came to know that that is not a good thing.

For example;
Luke 12:47-48
And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Slavery, properly understood, is neither good nor bad in an of itself. It depends on the context. Slavery is justified when country A goes to war against country B, hoping to take what doesn't belong to them, or to subjugate the population. In that situation, if country B were to become victorious, they would have every right to take the soldiers of country A as slaves. The purpose of this is to replace the sons that were lost, the buildings that were destroyed and the crops that were ruined. In other words, taking enemy soldiers as slaves is just compensation for the damage they caused.

The Bible doesn't end this practice. God takes human institutions and makes them more humane and just. For instance, the captives are to be set free after a time. Deuteronomy 15:12

Taking people prisoner for personal profit and gain is evil and unjust. This type of slavery is never justified. The Bible very clearly says that such people should be set free. And no one should take his brother into bondage. Jeremiah 34:9-16

The Bible also has much to say about difficult circumstances and how to live in a society that is not favorable to justice and righteousness.

 

[Grailhunter]

Slavery, properly understood, is neither good nor bad in an of itself. It depends on the context. Slavery is justified when country A goes to war against country B, hoping to take what doesn't belong to them, or to subjugate the population. In that situation, if country B were to become victorious, they would have every right to take the soldiers of country A as slaves. The purpose of this is to replace the sons that were lost, the buildings that were destroyed and the crops that were ruined. In other words, taking enemy soldiers as slaves is just compensation for the damage they caused.

Historians will tell you that it is pointless to judge the societies of the past. The Mosaic Law regulated slaves, and I am not judging the Jews for having slaves, I am not judging the Romans for having slaves. I am not judging God for allowing or condoning slavery. I am not judging Yeshua or the Apostles for not calling for an end to slavery. I would not even judge the Americans for having slaves...the point is God taught us that that is not good, fair, or right. And now we do not have slaves.

 

[Pearl]

Historians will tell you that it is pointless to judge the societies of the past. The Mosaic Law regulated slaves, and I am not judging the Jews for having slaves, I am not judging the Romans for having slaves. I am not judging God for allowing or condoning slavery. I am not judging Yeshua or the Apostles for not calling for an end to slavery. I would not even judge the Americans for having slaves...the point is God taught us that that is not good, fair, or right. And now we do not have slaves.

What happened in society then or now is of the world.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Historians will tell you that it is pointless to judge the societies of the past. The Mosaic Law regulated slaves, and I am not judging the Jews for having slaves, I am not judging the Romans for having slaves. I am not judging God for allowing or condoning slavery. I am not judging Yeshua or the Apostles for not calling for an end to slavery. I would not even judge the Americans for having slaves...the point is God taught us that that is not good, fair, or right. And now we do not have slaves.

I totally understand and appreciate your thoughtful and respectful reply. And I very much agree with your point that God has been teaching us morality and goodness over time and not all at once. For example, I am reminded that Abraham had more than one wife, and God never said anything to him about that. But through their examples, we have learned the pitfalls and dangers associated with having more than one wife. And this practice is discouraged if not outlawed in some areas.
Thanks Grailhunter. Have a blessed day today.

 

[Grailhunter]

What happened in society then or now is of the world.

You could explain that statement...if ya want.

 

[Pearl]

You could explain that statement...if ya want.

It explains itself. It's not to do with changing Christianity but a changing world.

 

[Grailhunter]

It explains itself. It's not to do with changing Christianity but a changing world.

Ok....did God teach us that slavery, polygamy, concubinage, and the subjugation of women was bad or did the world teach us that?
Did God teach us that religious wedding ceremonies were a good thing or did the world teach us that?