Questions For A Catholic

[Anastacia]

Deuteronomy 4:15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, [sup]16[/sup] so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, [sup]17[/sup] or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, [sup]18[/sup] or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. [sup]19[/sup] And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.

See here what the Catholics believe is the "highest honor" the Church can pay to an image of Jesus Christ or the Blessed Virgin Mary------

[sup]Pope Benedict Crowns the Infant Jesus of Prague

This crowning by the reigning Pope represents the highest honor the Church can pay to an image of Jesus Christ or the Blessed Virgin Mary. The President of ACN, Father Joaquín Alliende, commented, “The gesture of the Holy Father is an expression of a profound truth. Even as a Child, Christ is already a King. The Child Jesus is the only King who can bring peace to the world."

http://catholicexcha...9/10/01/122340/


The Catholics didn't watch themselves very carefully. I should post pictures of this ritual, so that for some who need more visuals would be shocked at the "veneration" given to a statue!
And notice what the priest calls pope Benedict "Holy Father"!

[/sup]
If anyone reads the whole article about the crowning of the statue of the baby Jesus, they will come to this information about the statue----

There the image went through troubled times. During the 30 Years War, the statue was desecrated by Protestant soldiers from Saxony, who hacked off its hands and threw it onto a pile of rubbish behind the altar, while the Carmelite Friars were expelled.

Some years later the image was found again by Father Cyrillus a Matre Dei, a Carmelite priest from Luxembourg who had a great devotion to the Infant Jesus of Prague. According to legend, while praying before the statue he heard a voice saying, "The more you honor me, the more I will bless you." Since then the devotion to the Infant Jesus of Prague has flourished greatly and spread throughout the globe.


So, a priest who had a "great devotion to the infant Jesus of Prague" THE STATUE! And the devotion to the infant Jesus of Prague has flourished greatly and spread thoughout the globe----the devotion to a statue!

 

[Anastacia]

Please watch this video (only a little over 1 minute long) about what the baby Jesus of Prague (the statue) told the priest who found it. The statue had it's hands missing when the priest found it. The child Jesus told him, "Have pity on me and I will have pity on you. Give me my hands and I will give you peace. The more you honor me, the more I will bless you."

http://www.youtube.c...=1&feature=fvwp


This other video is about a prayer to the Infant Jesus of Prague. Now since we know that Jesus was a baby who grew up and died for us....must we know then that the prayer of the Catholics is to the actual statue called "Infant Jesus of Prague"? If you watch the video (about 4 minutes long) you will read this in the beginning of the prayer--- O infant Jesus, I run to You, begging You through Your Holy Mother.... I think that this video not only shows idolatry, but also the false belief that Catholics have that Mary is someone we go through.

http://www.youtube.c...YjN0gKIDkk&NR=1



Here is a video with the current pope Benedict the 16th going to visit the statue of Mary. In this video we can see the time and money spent on travel for this occassion, and all the flowers... We can also see the pope incense the statue. Listen also to the prayer the pope says about Mary. Notice too the high pillar the statue is on. (video length is just 1 minute and 24 seconds)


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rgFCCgu7kvk


I came across this next video, it shows more on the prayer the pope gave on his visit to the statue of Mary. Listen to what the CURRENT Catholic Pope says about Mary.

http://www.youtube.c...aKg1VeK6Ao&NR=1

 

[marksman]

Sounds like you got in a lot of trouble as a kid - that is too bad. I am glad that I have had a much different experience in the Catholic Church then you did. Although this was not a question you ask - I think it is important to remember that we are not saved by our churches or the Bible or even doctrine - we are saved by God's Grace - AMEN

Foreigner, that was an excellent post and like the response you got in those days at school, you are getting the same run around now as I notice that selene and aspen avoid answering the question.

Quote

God says not to bow to statues. If you respected the Word of God, you will not bow down to statues. We are not to even bow down to angels. See these scriptures:

I see.... you think it is wrong for us to bow down to statues because the Bible says not to bow down, but it is okay for you to keep images of your loved ones in your home and wallet despite the fact that God also said "Do not make any likeness of anything that is on earth."

And as usual, avoid answering the question that was asked.

The Bible is an inspired book - it is not an idol. The Bible, just like the law was created for people, not people for the Bible. We need to stop clanging and gonging like cymbals and start loving people. This is what were are called to do - not use the verses of the Bible to attack people. And as far as asking God if your understanding is correct - I already commented on the dangers of only asking God and not bothering to understand the context of the verses in the Bible.

A strange comment seeing as you avoid the context most of the time.

In the same way, when God commanded the making of the bronze serpent, that statue was an icon pointing toward God. When the Israelites worshipped the bronze snake, it turned the icon into an idol, and God destroyed it.

An icon pointing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What utter rubbish.

Worshipped the bronze snake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!What utter rubbish.

Num 21:8 And Jehovah said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole. And it shall be when everyone that is bitten, when he looks upon it, he shall live. Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of bronze, and put it upon a pole. And it happened that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked upon the serpent of brass, he lived.

So looking at the bronze snake was worshipping it according to you.

3:15). The Bible is there as a guide so that one can refute, correct, and instruct in justice, but it was never the pillar and foundation of truth. That is found in the Church because Christ is the Head of the Church. Christ is not the head of the Bible. Christ from which all Truths come from made Himself Head of the Church, not head of the Bible.

Why is it then that all the catholics I have met say that the pope is the head of the church? Either you are a liar or they are.

I agree. I never said that the Church was a building. The Church is the assembly of people who believe in our Lord, and that includes the bishops, priests, and deacons who serve Him. This is why the Bible tells us to obey our Church leaders (in this case, the Pope, bishops, and priests) (See Hebrews 13:17). The Bible tells us to obey our Church leaders, and that is exactly what we do; therefore, we are not in violation of the Bible.

You are because nowhere does it say to obey the pope in scriptures

The true Church of God: are those who hear the Word of God, and live that Word.

100% true Thankful and thankyou for reminding us.

Anastacia, I have already shown you that the Early Church in the FIRST CENTURY made statues and had mosaic paintings. What makes you think that you know better than these first century Early Christians? It was the first century early Christians who wrote the New Testament. You did not write it. Our Church leaders are teaching the word of God. History and archaeology is on our side because there is archaeological evidence showing the mosaic paintings of the Early Church in the first century - the same kinds of mosaic paintings found in our Churches today.

Another example of avoiding the question.

As for the rcc leaders teaching the word of God, more a case of teaching the dictates of an apostate church judging by your non answers.

My sister, in the Bible, God never assigned any number to the "Ten Commandments." There are actually more than 10 and it is not even numbered. This is how the Commandments are written in the Bible. Do you see any numbers from 1-10? Do you see anything in there that says, "This is the first commandment, this is the second, this is the third, and so on?"

When did you make this one up? yesterday? Jesus chose 12 disciples but he didn't number them so it must be wrong. Such a childish and petty comment.

I was also a leader of my community in my Church as I walk in the Way.

It is and never has been YOUR community and church. Jesus said it was his church and he would build it and the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

 

[marksman]

Anatascia, this only goes to show that you did not bother nor care to read the entire article. If you had read the entire article you would have seen this below, which is found in that article:

And if you had read the entire article you would have seen this....

Comparison of the Catholic and Protestant 10 Commandments: Catholic/Lutheran (As per Augustine, around 400 A.D.)

1 I am the Lord your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
2 You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in Vain.
3 Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.
4 Honour your father and your mother.
5 You shall not kill.
6 You shall not commit adultry.
7 You shall not steal.
8 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
9 You shall not covet your neighbour's wife.
10 You shall not covet your Neighbour's goods.

That is the catholic version word for word so where is the graven image one?????

And you got number 3 wrong. It says to remember the sabbath day, NOT the lord's day whatever that is. And they don't know how to spell adultery.

There is more than 10 according to you so what does Augustine think he is doing and you said they weren't numbered in the scripture so why did Augustine number them?. It seems to me the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing or should that be the wrong hand is doing?

Not at all. We are just going to get back to what this thread is all about - Catholics answering respectful questions. Selene and I are finished arguing with you. This is not your thread and despite your belief that you know more about Catholicism than we do, you do not. So, if you have a question that you would like to discuss in a respectful, non-accusatory manner we would be happy to talk with you about it - if not, goodbye.

You have chosen to enter the public arena so it is not your thread anymore. If it was no one would be putting the mockers on your weird interptretations of the bible.

Your link proved the Catholics took out of the Ten Commandments about making images. And why do you bring up Jerry Falwell? Haven't you been listening to anything I've been saying? I don't go by what Jerry Falwell says, when he says things that are in opposition to the Bible.

Anastacia, please, please, please, didn't you know that you should agree with everyone who supports catholic teaching?????

I don't see anything in here saying that you can ask your friend Joe or Mike to pray for you.

Selene, when are you going to work out that you only see what you want to see apart from the fact that your response is so childish and avoids the question......as usual.

We already know exactly what the First Commandment was really saying. So read the two biblical verses below, then go ahead and tell God that He broke His own commandments

.

We may know but you obviously don't and I don't have to tell God that he broke his own commandment because he didn't.

Actually, I know the Scriptures much more than you think. You asked if God was telling Moses to make a brass serpent so that those who looked at it would be healed?

I never said no such thing. I said that according to you the making of the brass serpent is God telling the rcc church they can make graven images and I note again you avoided the question which seems to be your speciality.

You tell me. You seem to be the expert in Catholic doctrines.

Thankyou. I am glad that you have finally realised the truth. And I note you avoided answering the question again.

 

[marksman]

I already gave Marksman the biblical verse showing Apostolic Succession. He did not know what to make of it. 2 Timothy 2:2

And you obviously do not have a clue. Timothy was told to commit what he has learned to "faithful" (which means trustworthy and the greek word is pistos), "men" (which means human being and the greek word is anthropos) who will be able to teach "others" (meaning other men and the greek word is heteros meaning males)

The greek word for apostle is "apostolos" which does not appear in 2 Timothy 2:2 therefore it has nothing at all to do with apostolic succession. That is just something you have made up to give credance to the rcc claiming it is the one true church and authority for the power of the pope.

Jesus was a Jew, and I trust His word over yours.

Another cop out to avoid the obvious.

This is the very reason why there is no openess and honest dialogue with you. I say, "Jesus was a Jew, and I trust His word over yours" to a poster and look at this comment. You put YOUR own words in, which is nothing of what I said. And we are accused of twisting Sacred Scripture? What do you call this when you put in YOUR own translation? If you can do this to my words, how much more Sacred Scripture? Shame...shame....shame!

Except you forgot one thing. He wasn't putting his own translation on scripture. He was paraphrasing what you had said, which as a teacher of English is quite acceptable. So shame, shame, shame.

I don't see anything in here saying that you can ask your friend Joe or Mike to pray for you.

And I don't see anything about praying to/by/for Mary and have you had a word to Aspen yet about his mistake?

 

[marksman]

I don't think aspen meant to imply that you were part of any denomination, merely that Sola Scriptura ("by Scripture alone") was, at its inception, a specifically protestant doctrine.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. If it is a protestant doctrine then the rcc was not around in the NT so that blows apostolic succession out of the water. If it is a rcc doctrine which it is as Luther was a catholic priest, who told the rcc that salvation was soley by grace and the word, not by buying it then the problem was the rcc who chose to ignore its own teaching

Therefore, we have to assume that the first large comment by Aspen is Actually the Reason it was set up. To discuss and clarify Catholic doctrine.

By the sound of it, you just want us to accept everything they say even if it is heresy. The fact is, they put it out there because they want to promote the rcc. We are told in scripture to contend for the faith. The only reason there is a protestant church is due to the fact that the rcc was an apostate church as Luther, one of their own so very clearly pointed out with his 95 thesis.

Exodus 30:1 Thou shalt make also an altar to burn incense, of setim wood.

So I take it that if you are using this as authority for what you do, may I ask if you sacrifice animals on the altar?

Where in any of our posts have we said anything contrary to Scripture when we have even used Scripture to support our doctrines. It is not my problem that you NEVER knew that those Scriptures existed in the Bible.

Where do we begin????????? Your last statement to say the least is quite arrogant.

There are existing documents showing that St. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome.

Don't tell me. The rcc has the only copies of these documents.

You rely on a book.

And the reason you don't is due to the fact that the pope doesn't want you to as you might discover that what he says is heresy. Which is not surprising as he has said that is some cases the church has more authority than the word of God.

If you don't rely on God's word, why do you quote it all the time, albeit out of context. If your revelation comes from God, how come he gets so many things wrong?

.....the same Holy Spirit that was given to the Church of which Christ is head of.

As usual, you ignore all the verses that challenge your take on things, prefering to use a strawman to deflect reality.

 

[mcorba]

I didnt realise the level of animosity towards Catholics until I joined this forum! How saddening.
I wonder if some so called Christians on this site feel more animosity towards us than to atheists?


Quote:
We are just going to get back to what this thread is all about - Catholics answering respectful questions. Selene and I are finished arguing with you. This is not your thread and despite your belief that you know more about Catholicism than we do, you do not. So, if you have a question that you would like to discuss in a respectful, non-accusatory manner we would be happy to talk with you about it - if not, goodbye

 

[mcorba]

“Judge not, that ye be not judged - Matthew 7.1.

If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5.39.


Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. OR
God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth.

Matthew 5.5.

 

[Foreigner]

"I didnt realise the level of animosity towards Catholics until I joined this forum!" - mcorba

-- I spent the first 20 years of my life a Catholic and haven't seen some of the stretching and twisting of scripture (or in some cases the outright ignoring of scripture) to justify Catholic practices as I have seen here.

 

[Selene]

“Judge not, that ye be not judged - Matthew 7.1.

If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5.39.
http://niv.scripturetext.com/matthew/5.htm

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. OR
http://nlt.scripturetext.com/matthew/5.htmGod blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth.

Matthew 5.5.

In addition, I would also like to add these Sacred Scriptures:

Luke 6:22-23 Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Be glad in that day and rejoice; for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For according to these things did their fathers to the prophets.

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven,,,,

 

[marksman]

-- I spent the first 20 years of my life a Catholic and haven't seen some of the stretching and twisting of scripture (or in some cases the outright ignoring of scripture) to justify Catholic practices as I have seen here.

Your so right foreigner. I have a degree in Theology and worked in the catholic system, but I have never heard so much heresy in all my life. I have a feeling that selene and aspen think they know what they are doing but I have to tell them that they need to do a whole lot more study to be apologists for the catholic faith. All they are doing here is giving it a bad name.

In addition, I would also like to add these Sacred Scriptures:

Luke 6:22-23 Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Be glad in that day and rejoice; for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For according to these things did their fathers to the prophets.

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven,,,,

What for?

 

[marksman]

I didnt realise the level of animosity towards Catholics until I joined this forum! How saddening. I wonder if some so called Christians on this site feel more animosity towards us than to atheists?

You have mixed up animosity with valid questioning. When people claim all sorts of out of left field doctrines, they should expect to be challenged by people that have a different view and understanding.

As to having more animosity towards catholics than atheists, they both do the same thing. They pick a verse of scripture and put their own spin on it to justify the doctrines of men and atheists. This year on another forum, I along with a few others have been debating atheists who regularly quote a single verse out of context to validate their claims about christianity.

As we have exposed their total lack of knowledge of what the scriptures really say, their protestations got less and less, a bit like here as in when you come up against people that won't accept your pontifications lying down, you tend to get very precious and cry foul.

We are just going to get back to what this thread is all about - Catholics answering respectful questions.

Unfortuntely most of the time you don't answer the question. You go off on a tangent to avoid answering the question.

Selene and I are finished arguing with you.

I thought you were supposed to be answering questions?

This is not your thread

And it is not yours because you have invited comment.

despite your belief that you know more about Catholicism than we do, you do not.

Prove it.

So, if you have a question that you would like to discuss in a respectful, non-accusatory manner we would be happy to talk with you about it - if not, goodbye

Such a statement shows how ill eqipped you are to discuss anything to do with the truth.

 

[Selene]

As we have exposed their total lack of knowledge of what the scriptures really say, their protestations got less and less, a bit like here as in when you come up against people that won't accept your pontifications lying down, you tend to get very precious and cry foul.

Marksman, the fact that you posted 4 posts under this thread in only one day shows your burning anger and hatred.. I will pray for you. God bless.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[aspen]

Why is it then that all the catholics I have met say that the pope is the head of the church? Either you are a liar or they are.


When did you make this one up? yesterday? Jesus chose 12 disciples but he didn't number them so it must be wrong. Such a childish and petty comment.

Ok so there are only 3 questions in this entire post, which is full of critical remarks that suggest Selene and I are less educated than you about or own churches' doctrine and because we interpret scripture differently than you we must be lying.

So let me deal with the only question that isn't completely degrading. I do not know why ALL Catholics you have met say that the Pope is the head of the Church. The catholic church teaches that Jesus is the head of the church. The good news is that you now know 2 Catholics that say Jesus is the Head of the Church.

I am assuming that the next questions are simply 2 rude examples of a rhetorical question.

Blessings

 

[aspen]

And if you had read the entire article you would have seen this....

Comparison of the Catholic and Protestant 10 Commandments: Catholic/Lutheran (As per Augustine, around 400 A.D.)

1 I am the Lord your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
2 You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in Vain.
3 Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.
4 Honour your father and your mother.
5 You shall not kill.
6 You shall not commit adultry.
7 You shall not steal.
8 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
9 You shall not covet your neighbour's wife.
10 You shall not covet your Neighbour's goods.

That is the catholic version word for word so where is the graven image one?????

There is more than 10 according to you so what does Augustine think he is doing and you said they weren't numbered in the scripture so why did Augustine number them?.

The above list is the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments Moses brought down from Mount Sinai after the children of Israel escaped from Egypt. Believed to have been written by the very finger of God on tablets of stone, they summarized the law that would define Israel and make her a unique nation of people. The commandments are not the whole law. That constitutes pages and pages of oral tradition and experience. But they summarize what God expects in human, ethical behavior-a kind of minimum daily requirement in righteousness.

The first four laws govern the way humans are to respond to God. They are summarized in Deuteronomy 6:5: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." The next six describe how humans are to respond to each other. They are summarized in Leviticus 19:18: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

The Decalogue is considered the most accurate version of the 10 commandments. This is not an issue for most Protestants, but there are a minority that seem to revel in criticizing the RCC, who claim that Catholics removed the graven image portion - I say take it up with Moses. He is the one who brought down the above version of the commandments on two plates of stone.

As for Augustine - I have no idea.

Blessings

 

[Selene]

[font="Verdana][color="#8b0000"]The above list is the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments Moses brought down from Mount Sinai after the children of Israel escaped from Egypt. Believed to have been written by the very finger of God on tablets of stone, they summarized the law that would define Israel and make her a unique nation of people. The commandments are not the whole law. That constitutes pages and pages of oral tradition and experience. But they summarize what God expects in human, ethical behavior-a kind of minimum daily requirement in righteousness.

The first four laws govern the way humans are to respond to God. They are summarized in Deuteronomy 6:5: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." The next six describe how humans are to respond to each other. They are summarized in Leviticus 19:18: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

The Decalogue is considered the most accurate version of the 10 commandments. This is not an issue for most Protestants, but there are a minority that seem to revel in criticizing the RCC, who claim that Catholics removed the graven image portion - I say take it up with Moses. He is the one who brought down the above version of the commandments on two plates of stone.

As for Augustine - I have no idea.

Blessings
[/color][/font]

Hi Aspen,

The part about "graven images" was never taken out. The Catholics have a long version and a short version of the Ten Commandments. It is in the Vatican website. We often use the short version because it is easier to memorize. The long version is very LOOOONG! Below is the Catholic long version of the Ten Commandments. I provided the Vatican weblink so you can compare it both the long and short version.

Catholic long version of Ten Commandments (taken from Vatican webiste):

Commandment 1: You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.

Commandment 2: You shall not take
the name of the LORD your God in vain;
for the LORD will not hold him guiltless
who takes his name in vain.

Commandment 3: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God;
in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son,
or your daughter, your manservant,
or your maidservant or your cattle,
or the sojourner who is within your gates;
for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth,
the sea, and all that is in them,
and rested the seventh day;
therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Commandment 4: Honor your father and your mother,
that your days may be long in the land
which the LORD your God gives you.

Commandment 5: You shall not kill.

Commandment 6: You shall not commit adultery.

Commandment 7: You shall not steal.

Commandment 8: You shall not bear false witness
against your neighbor.

Commandment 9: You shall not covet your neighbor's house;
you shall not covet your neighbor's wife,
or his manservant, or his maidservant.

Commandment 10: or his ox, or his ass,
or anything that is your neighbor's.

The Catholic short version is Augustine's version, which is called Traditional Catechetical Formula in the Vatican weblink below. Because we often use the short version of the Ten Commandments, it is very easy for anti-Catholics to take the Catholic short version and accuse us of taking out the commandment about graven images. They are unaware that the Catholics have a longer version. Both the long and short versions can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 2, Chapter 1, Part IV.

If Anastacia and Marksman had read the ENTIRE article I provided, it is mentioned that the "graven images" is in the Catholic long version of the Ten Commandments and it even cited the Section, Chapter, and Part of where one can find it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

http://www.vatican.v...ism/command.htm

 

[Selene]

By the way, I forgot to mention that the commandment "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife and thy neighbor's goods" are not the same in the Protestants and Catholics. The Protestants put this as one commandment, number 10. In the Catholic version, it is separated. So, in the Catholic version, Commandment 9 says "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife and commandment 10 says "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods. St. Augustine separated the two because a woman is not a man's "possession" like a horse or livestock. He is the bone of his bones and the flesh of his flesh. (Gen 2:23). At any rate, a Catholic has no problem recognizing the Protestant's version and according to the Church, it is acceptable.

 

[Anastacia]

I'll put this in the form of a question--- Why does the Catholic religion venerate the remains of deceased Catholic "Saints"? Some time after the "Saint" dies, the dead Saint's remains are dug up and put in glass see through caskets, to be viewed and venerated. Sometimes it is a small box with just a skull, or a finger of the dead Saint. Please do not think that this just happens in some remote places around the world---this is being done in many places, for it is a Catholic practice to do this.


These two videos are only a few minutes in length. They show Catholic veneration of relics. WARNING! These videos are graphic pictures of decayed "Saints." I warn you before hand that they can be disturbing, yet, many Catholics, even their children, are brought to "venerate" the remains of the Catholic saints.


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Bizfmv202U0


http://www.youtube.c...sXdX27XU8k&NR=1



The Bible tells us the things of this world will be burned up, we are to live by the Spirit. So why then do Catholics practice the veneration of death and decay?

 

[Templar81]

I can explain this, in fact I did earlier on in the thread but I can't find it now as this has got so big.

Basically the saints are the people who have made through to the Church triumphant and they are in ehaven now, so they are pat of the first ressurrection and the second death has no power over them. Many of these saints are recognised as such by Sacramental Christians because through miracles like healing or not rotting away they show that they are among the saints. As Saints they can help us here on earth and their remains are the means by which God works through them. If you read hagiographies and I have read a few; including St Cuthbert, St Wilfred and St Kenelm, then you see that these are all people who God has chosen and God works through them. After they die God continues to work through them.

Let us also remember that there is a big difference between worship and veneration and that popular relgion is from the people not the intellectutals. The veneration of saints and relics came about in a time when people couldn't just pick up a Bible like we can now and even in churches a Bible was a rare thing so stories of the saints were told as examples of how to lead good lives and serve God. Veneration is more about respect and recognition for a fellow believer who has gone before and is now in heaven with God.

 

[Templar81]

I think I've killed the thread.