The Star Spangled Banner

So answer the question. Should Hitler's kids have honored their Father's decision to murder millions of Jews?

Duckybill said:

If they were Christians, YES. The command is perfectly clear.

Ephesians 6:2-3 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]"Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with promise: [sup]3 [/sup]"that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth."

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I guess before I ask my next question and before I make a fatal assumption, define honor.
Don't give me a copy/paste from the dictionary.

TexUs said:

So answer the question. Should Hitler's kids have honored their Father's decision to murder millions of Jews?

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He didn't have any children.

Duckybill said:

Why are you asking me to define 'honor'? God said it. Ask Him. It certainly isn't calling them "greedy bastards".

Ephesians 6:2-3 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]"Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with promise: [sup]3 [/sup]"that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth."

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No, actually, that tells you the "Why", not the "What".
Again, define honor.

If your father is killing millions of people in cold blood, you should honor him for that?

Are you serious?

Like you're seriously not able to comprehend that passage is giving the "WHY", not the definition?

Eat ice cream to increase sugar in your blood.
This statement tells me WHY I should eat ice cream but it doesn't define what ice cream is.

TexUs said:

Are you serious?

Like you're seriously not able to comprehend that passage is giving the "WHY", not the definition?

Eat ice cream to increase sugar in your blood.
This statement tells me WHY I should eat ice cream but it doesn't define what ice cream is.

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So you are defending calling them "greedy bastards" as honoring them? Or will admit that you are dishonoring them?

Duckybill said:

So you are defending calling them "greedy bastards" as honoring them? Or will admit that you are dishonoring them?

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I won't continue arguing this.

If you people can't grasp that I was talking about generations and not specific individuals there's no hope for you.

The problem is that honor and leadership are interpreted differently. Mostly the respondants here have absolutely no idea what they are talking about when they say that one should pray for one's leaders. The literal translation of that response means that American leaders, as well as NAZI ones, are to be excused for any atrocity they perform. Meanwhile the scripture excuses any inhumanity and allows it to continue with the blessing of the church.

BTW Hitler used Christian imagery to gain power and to justify his misuse of it. When the war ended and the German people found their lives and their country in ruins around them, they had absolutely no idea what had happened to them or why....because they had all done what they had been told to do.

Even Satan uses scripture. It doesn't mean it's right and it doesn't mean that our current crop of leaders are right either.

rockytopva said:

And Paul telling these people to be subject to the powers of Rome... And who was their leader at the time? Nero! Now you tell me that Nero was a saint and I have some AZ beach front property I can sell you!

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You take everything entirely too literally and miss the point. You did it to me and now him. I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic.

rockytopva said:

My people were military people. Dad was a master chief in the Navy and mom was a Marine. My grandfather was a drill instructor in the Army and all my uncles were in the military. My dads brother was in intelligence during the Vietnam War.

I have generations that fought with the Virginia regiments during the civil war. Not far away from us is Dublin VA, which was a strategic point on the Virginia & Tennessee Railroad, which was used by the Confederacy to transport troops and supplies. The Yankees tried coming up the New River to do battle with us in which they were repelled. I had great great grandfathers fight in that campaign and my people were proud that the Yankees never did penetrate our neck of Southwestern VA.


So I am proud of my people and the cause in which they fought. They are both as tough as nails and tender as lambs. In which saying anything at all about my people is about like talking bad about Texas to Sandy the Squirrel, in which you had better be ready to defend your position!

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You seem to mean well and if the subject for our discussion were otherwise I'm sure we would find common ground for agreement.
Unfortunately your fervent irrational nationalism and pretentious ancestral pride has blinded you to the reality of the present situation.

The stars and stripes are not some emblem of eternal holiness.
That is an arrogance and foolishness of which we as a nation are most guilty.
St. Paul worshipped Christ, not caesar.
He followed the way of the cross, not the propaganda of the masses and not the traditions of his own Jewish religion.

The men of our American past fought for principles of higher worth than mere nationalism. We rebelled against the oppression of King George of England and built a new land from the ashes of the War of Independence. Was it wrong to desire liberty and to fight for it? Should they have stopped 'ragging against the government' as you say?

Your relatives fought against the general government in Washington because they believed in liberty and because they held their own country of Virginia in greater regard.
You rightly honor what they did, but you seem to have forgotten WHY they did it. Think, man.

Let me say with no lack of respect to persons for their service (and that includes myself) that the Viet Nam war, the Korean War, our adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq and all the other wars and incursions since 1945 have been morally and legally wrong. By our own law and according to our own version of Christian morality they were and are wrong.

The general government in Washington is daily usurping our liberties in the name of whatever future they have in store for the rest of us.
A feeling has pervaded our people for years now, that someone has taken our country from us and that our destiny is no longer at our direction.

It is time to wake up and smell the coffee, to admit to one another that something is terribly wrong and that our country is not the place we thought it was. Nothing can be done to fix it until that basic admission is uttered by one and all. We are not children or idiots, yet our leaders seem to believe we are.

You seem to hold honor high. Is it honorable for a government to lie to its people, to break its own laws, to subvert and invade foreign lands without just cause and to suppress the liberty of its citizens which they by right have inherited from God?

Where do you stand, sir? With honor among your ancestors or among those who cowtoe to those who subvert everything America is and hopes to become?

Perhaps in God's good grace and at the appropriate time, some semblance of liberty and wisdom will be reborn on our shores.
There is no evidence of that happening any time soon, but it is my hope nevertheless.