The judgment of Jerusalem and "Replacement theology"

The Kingdom Age is a 1000 year reign in Jerusalem by Jesus Christ, its very intention is to apply guilt unto Satan and his angels. The 6000 years of Satan's rule will be juxtaposed against Jesus' 1000 year rule over mankind. Satan will blame mankind, but Jesus will say, well, none of that happened under my rule while you were locked up for 1000 years Lucifer. This is why Satan is not cast into hell, the actual Judgment of the wicked is after Jesus' 1000 year reign, only the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are judged ahead of that.

The Church Age was inserted 1.) Because of Israel's sin and refusal to repent. 2.) In order fir God to reach all of mankind as God loves all men. The Kingdom Age however is all about Israel, we the Church are thus a totally separate plan. We are Christs bride, Israel is God's Bride. Jacob had two bride Rachel the chosen a d preferred one and Leah the forced bride.

michaelvpardo said:

13 Because of the sins of her prophets
And the iniquities of her priests,
Who shed in her midst
The blood of the just. Lamentations 4:11-13
This is written in the past tense and describes the fall of Jerusalem under Nebuchadnezzar's army. But further down in the same passage we find:

The punishment of your iniquity is accomplished,
O daughter of Zion;
He will no longer send you into captivity.
He will punish your iniquity,
O daughter of Edom;
He will uncover your sins! Lamentations 4:22
Again, this was written well before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD and the further dispersion of Judah resulting from their rebellion against Rome. So, doesn't this actually apply to that later destruction?
Was the punishment of the iniquity of Zion accomplished a 2nd time in 70AD? Or is there a 3rd time expected in the future in the form of "Jacob's troubles?"
Is this entirely retrospective or does it remain prophetic?
And does prophecy repeat itself?

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I see that Lamentations 4:22 verse being still yet future, because the nation of Edom (but not the people) was destroyed prior... to the Jews going into captivity in 70 A.D. Thus mention of Edom there has to be about where the Idumeans wound up later. (see Isaiah 40:2; Isaiah 60:18; Jeremiah 46:27-28).

The very first verse of Lamentations 1 is a revelation link to the Revelation Babylon Harlot city...

Lam 1:1
1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people how is she become as a widow she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary
KJV

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV


Rev 18:7-8
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God Who judgeth her.
KJV

michaelvpardo said:

I have trouble with separating Christ from God in your interpretation, but it's pretty sound.

There Is some Christian teaching that was lost to scripture regarding judgment. Paul gives us a single question pertaining to angels:

Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1 Corinthians 6:3

This is one of those things that I really wish had been taught more definitively in scripture, but it certainly isn't mentioned much in the Canon.
Do you believe that this judgment is part of the great white throne judgment, or being attributed to the work of the saints, is it something exercised in the millenial kingdom?
Or maybe you just haven't considered it ( as irrelevant to our current "age".)

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We are to judge each other, (inside the church) but have empathy on those outside the grace of God's tender mercies by not judging per se (we should JUDGE THEM, but nit CONDEMN THEM) but we should preach regeneration to the lost soul in generalities, not in Mr. Smith cheated on Mrs. Smith come to Christ etc. But as per the church, if Mr. Smith cheats on his wife we are MANDATED by the word to confront that sin head on, as elders sadly most churches d nit understand this. Would our parents have winked and nodded at us stealing candy as a 8 year old? Of course not.

So, yes we are commanded to judge each other, Paul does that over an d over, read Gal. 3 "Who has bewitched you that starting out on the sprit (faith) you have now turned unto the flesh?"

Yes, we will judge Demon Angels, not "The Angels" who never sinned, but why? We will have a record of them tempting men to do evil !! We will thus judge them, we know God's angels never sinned (rebelled) else they would not have remained in Heaven with God.

God the Father has the ABUNDANCE of the Glory, God the Son has the exact same likeness as the Father (in spirit they are 100% alike in that they are Holy, Joyous, Caring, Loving, Kind, Faithful, Longsuffering, Peaceful, Hopeful, Honest etc. etc.) but not the full Glory. Likewise God the Holy Spirit has the same likeness, but He also doesn't have the fulness of the Glory of God else He could not live in our hearts, we would die if we even saw God the Fathers full Glory.

Let me explain it like this. Take a 3 trillion gallon reservoir of water, which has the exact same chemical make up in every drop of water. Take 100 gallons of that water (Jesus) and pour it over a mans head, he would be soaking wet, but he would be A-OK. Then you do the same with another 100 gallons of water (Holy Spirit) and again, one would be soaked, but they would live. Now, take the whole three trillion gallons (God the Father) and pour that over a man, and he would most certainly die. The Father has the ABUNDANCE of the Glory, thus we could look upon Jesus, the Holy Spirit can live in us, but no man with sin stain can look upon the Father and live, Moses saw His hind quarters and glowed, the 70 who was around when the Ark of the Covenant was opened all died. BUT..........They are one and the same in Spirit (Likeness) but not in the abundance of the Glory. That above is also how I explain the trinity unto people.

I fail to see this thread having to do anything with the idea of Replacement Theology.

Davy said:

I fail to see this thread having to do anything with the idea of Replacement Theology.

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I was wondering that myself actually.....I wanted to tie these two subjects together.

The judgments on Jerusalem and the destruction of two Temples, were from God himself because of Israel’s appalling disobedience under the leadership of very corrupt and negligent shepherds.

The final destruction in 70C.E. saw the permanent removal of God’s temple from the fleshly Jewish nation because God’s purpose in connection with them was finished. Their final act of murder, fulfilled Jesus’ declaration in Matthew 23:37-39.....
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

Since Jesus was the one who came in Jehovah’s name, natural Jews would have to confess him as Messiah or else remain outside of God’s favor. There is no salvation without God’s Messiah. For almost 2,000 years they have remained defiant....yet individuals from that nation saw the need to accept Jesus as the Christ and to this day, some still do.

But that wayward nation was finally cast off as incorrigible, as it says in Matthew 21:42-43....
“Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.”
That is something Israel never did, they could never remain obedient to their God but instead counted purely on being ‘sons of Abraham’ to save them....but John the Baptist rained on that parade...
Matthew 3:7-10...
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

To this day Israel wonders why she does not have God’s backing or blessing, making the same mistakes as she always did...allying herself politically with nations whose worship she despises and causing much bloodshed. (Isaiah 1:15)
She is just another one of the blood spilling nations who cannot know or attain peace.

The new nation, by God’s choice, was “spiritual” Israel, made up of the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ, all of whom at first were natural Jews. The apostle Paul called them “the Israel of God”, which came to be made up of natural Jews as well as converted Gentiles. (Galatians 6:16)

Were the Jews “replaced”? Not really, because God gave Abraham the promise that “all the nations would be blessed” by his seed, (Genesis 22:18) who would come through his lineage. God gave the natural Jews first option to inherit the Kingdom and to become a nation of kings and priests, but they failed to make up the numbers. So at the appropriate time, God opened up the way for Gentiles to become his worshippers without having to first convert to Judaism. Cornelius was the first one invited. He and his household had the privilege of receiving Holy Spirit even before baptism. (Acts 10:44-45)

This spiritual nation is now serving God in his grand spiritual temple in heaven where Jesus presented the value of his sacrifice to God. They are presently preparing for the end of this age when the remaining ones of their number will be called ‘home’ before the final judgment on this world. Jesus and his angelic forces will bring this sad and sorry world to an end, and introduce the “new earth” which will be rule by them as the “new heavens”. (2 Peter 3:13)

These are very important subjects for discussion.

Aunty Jane said:

I was wondering that myself actually.....I wanted to tie these two subjects together.

The judgments on Jerusalem and the destruction of two Temples, were from God himself because of Israel’s appalling disobedience under the leadership of very corrupt and negligent shepherds.

The final destruction in 70C.E. saw the permanent removal of God’s temple from the fleshly Jewish nation because God’s purpose in connection with them was finished. Their final act of murder, fulfilled Jesus’ declaration in Matthew 23:37-39.....
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

Since Jesus was the one who came in Jehovah’s name, natural Jews would have to confess him as Messiah or else remain outside of God’s favor. There is no salvation without God’s Messiah. For almost 2,000 years they have remained defiant....yet individuals from that nation saw the need to accept Jesus as the Christ and to this day, some still do.
....

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I mostly agree with you, however...

Remember what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 even about his brethren the unbelieving Jews. God has blinded them spiritually so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. And in final, that blindness will be removed (at Christ's future return, which is when the 'fullness of the Gentiles' is complete.) Thus Paul still says they are still God's election, and that God won't go back on His promises. So God has not totally forgotten them, though they still reject Jesus. And since Paul quoted from Isaiah that all Israel will be saved, the minority of Jews that have believed is not what Paul was pointing to either.

Zechariah 12 and Luke 23:27-30 are about the event of the unbelieving Jew's mourning when they see Jesus coming in the clouds. In Luke 23, Jesus showed those will wish for the mountains and hills to fall on them and cover them, pointing to their shame at Jesus being then revealed to them. That is when God will remove the spiritual 'stupor', or blindness He put upon them.

Matthew 3:7-10...
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

To this day Israel wonders why she does not have God’s backing or blessing, making the same mistakes as she always did...allying herself politically with nations whose worship she despises and causing much bloodshed. (Isaiah 1:15)
She is just another one of the blood spilling nations who cannot know or attain peace.

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I won't go into it here, but the ones Lord Jesus truly rebuked there among the blind scribes and Pharisees represent the "tares" of Matthew 13 that crept in among the children of Israel long ago. Lord Jesus called them false Jews (Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9). The scribes of Israel were actually foreigners of the Kenite nation among the Canaanites (1 Chronicles 2:55). And by the time of Lord Jesus' first coming, some of the Canaanite leftovers that dwelt among Israel had crept into the priesthood. It was prophecy in the Book of Jude that this would happen, as also according to our Heavenly Father in Judges 2 and Judges 3 against Israel for falling away to paganism against Him. See also Joshua 9, and 1 Kings 9:19-22, and Ezra 1, Ezra 2, Ezra 9. The Nethinims, which means 'temple servant', were foreigners that helped the Levite priests.

The new nation, by God’s choice, was “spiritual” Israel, made up of the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ, all of whom at first were natural Jews. The apostle Paul called them “the Israel of God”, which came to be made up of natural Jews as well as converted Gentiles. (Galatians 6:16)

Were the Jews “replaced”? Not really, because God gave Abraham the promise that “all the nations would be blessed” by his seed, (Genesis 22:18) who would come through his lineage. God gave the natural Jews first option to inherit the Kingdom and to become a nation of kings and priests, but they failed to make up the numbers. So at the appropriate time, God opened up the way for Gentiles to become his worshippers without having to first convert to Judaism. Cornelius was the first one invited. He and his household had the privilege of receiving Holy Spirit even before baptism. (Acts 10:44-45)
....

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Some Jews are angry at that idea that the Christian Church replaced God's promises to Israel. What they actually show is they don't even understand the Word of God first given to their ancestors.

What I mean is, God's Promises followed what He first promised through Abraham (see Galatians 3 and Romans 4). And the major portion of the 'seed' of Israel have believed The Gospel in reality; the problem being that most Jews and Christian brethren don't really know who that 'Israel' represents.

I will do another thread on that, using a short summary type outline. Look for it if you're interested.

Ronald D Milam said:

The Kingdom Age is a 1000 year reign in Jerusalem by Jesus Christ, its very intention is to apply guilt unto Satan and his angels. The 6000 years of Satan's rule will be juxtaposed against Jesus' 1000 year rule over mankind. Satan will blame mankind, but Jesus will say, well, none of that happened under my rule while you were locked up for 1000 years Lucifer. This is why Satan is not cast into hell, the actual Judgment of the wicked is after Jesus' 1000 year reign, only the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are judged ahead of that.

The Church Age was inserted 1.) Because of Israel's sin and refusal to repent. 2.) In order fir God to reach all of mankind as God loves all men. The Kingdom Age however is all about Israel, we the Church are thus a totally separate plan. We are Christs bride, Israel is God's Bride. Jacob had two bride Rachel the chosen a d preferred one and Leah the forced bride.

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There’s not a kingdom Gospel for Israel and a grace gospel for gentiles.

There’s the one gospel of the kingdom, offered first to the Jew, and then to the gentiles.

Curtis said:

There’s not a kingdom Gospel for Israel and a grace gospel for gentiles.

There’s the one gospel of the kingdom, offered first to the Jew, and then to the gentiles.

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You are correct, there wil be both Jews and Gentiles who marry Christ in Heaven via the Pre Trib Rapture. THEN........There will be 3-5 million Jews who are protected by Christ for a specific reason where he can rule on the Throne of David for 1000 years in Israel, AND there will be Gentles who were Martyrs in the 70th week (Rev. 20:4) who Live and Reign with Christ on this earth for 1000 years, as Rev. 20:4 says, ONLY THOSE who refused the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Christ in their glorious bodies. Thus only the Gentile Martyrs of the 70th week remain on earth in Glorious bodies for his 1000 year rule, the Jews who repented are protected so Jesus can rule on the throne of David in the Kingdom Age.

So, there is ONE Gospel, that the Messiah's blood saves us from our sins. Abraham was made righteous because he BELIVED God would sent the redeemer. David also BELIVED God was our Yesuah (Salvation). Paul, Peter and John also understood the Messiah to be our Redeemer. I understand Jesus to be my Redeemer, so do you, and the Jews repent and accept Jesus by faith alone also, just before the middle of the week during the 70th week.

We ALL must come unto Christ by Faith alone, be we Gentile or Jew, but we are not ALL ONE, that is a misunderstanding of Gal. 3, Paul was saying just the opposite, he REBUKED the Galatians for trying to earn their way to Heaven by living like the Jews. Oh foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you that starting out in the Spirit (FAITH) you have now turned unto the Flesh (Laws of the Jewish customs). We know this is Paul's point because he then goes into multi verses about how Abraham was made whole by FAITH ALONE not the Law which came 430 years later. And how when Jesus showed up, the Law was done away with, because it was only a school master to bring us unto Jesus the Redeemer.

So then Paul makes a point, there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor freeman, we are all the same in Christ Jesus. Well, are there still male and females? Of course, so why are there not Jews and Gentiles? There is, of course Paul was just pointing out to the Galatians, "Hey, you do not have to become Jewish to make it to Heaven" (Some "Christians Jews" had not doubt proffered this unto them), we are all the same in God's Eyes.............FAITH makes us Whole, be we Jew or Gentile, Freeman or Slave, Male or Female. But that doesn't change the fact that God has a Plan for Jesus' Bride and a different plan for His Bride. REMEMBER, Jacob had a preferred bride in Rachel, and a FORCED Bride in Leah.

We are not a part of the Kingdom Age because we will be doing other stuff, in Heaven, BUT, the Martyrs of the 70th week will have Glorious bodies and help Jesus on this earth during his 1000 year reign as the King of kings and Lord of lords, on the throne of David.

God's calling is without Repentance. The Jews will be a part of the Kingdom Age.

Ronald D Milam said:

You are correct, there wil be both Jews and Gentiles who marry Christ in Heaven via the Pre Trib Rapture. THEN........There will be 3-5 million Jews who are protected by Christ fir a specific reason where he can rule on the Throne of David for 1000 years in Israel, AND there will be Gentles who were Martyrs in the 70th week (Rev. 20:4) who Live and Reign with Christ on this earth for 1000 years, as Rev. 30:4 says, ONLY THOSE who refused the Mark of the Beast. Thus only the Gentile Martyrs of the 70th week remain on earth in Glorious bodies for his 1000 year rule, the Jews who repented are protected so Jesus can rule on the throne of David in the Kingdom Age.

So, there is ONE Gospel, that the Messiah's blood saves us from our sins. Abraham was made righteous because he BELIVED God would sent the redeemer. David also BELIVED God was our Yesuah (Salvation). Paul, Peter and John also understood the Messiah to be our Redeemer. I understand Jesus to be my Redeemer, so do you, and the Jews will just before the middle of the week during the 70th week.

We ALL must come unto Christ by Faith alone, be we Gentile or Jew, but we are not ALL ONE, that is a misunderstanding of Gal. 3, Paul was saying just the opposite, he REBUKED the Galatians for trying to earn their way to Heaven by living like the Jews. Oh foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you that starting out in the Spirit (FAITH) you have now turned unto the Flesh (Laws of the Jewish customs). We know this is Paul's point because he then goes into multi verses about how Abraham was made whole by FAITH ALONE not the Law which came 430 years later. And how when Jesus showed up, the Law was done away with, because it was only a school master to bring us unto Jesus the Redeemer.

So then Paul makes a point, there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor freeman, we are all the same in Christ Jesus. Well, are there still make and females? Of course, so why are there Jews and Gentiles? There is, of course Paul was just pointing out to the Galatians, "Hey, you do not have to become Jewish to make it to Heaven (Some "Christians Jews" had not doubt proffered this unto them), w are all the same in God's Eyes.............FAITH makes us Whole, be we Jew or Gentile, Freeman or Slave, Make or Female. But that doesn't change the fact that God has a Plan for Jesus' Bride and a different plan for His Bride. REMEMBER, Jacob had a preferred bride in Rachel, and a FORCED Bride in Leah.

We are not a part of the Kingdom Age because we will be doing other stuff, in Heaven, BUT, the Martyrs of the 70th week will have Glorious bodies and help Jesus on this earth during his 1000 year reign as the King on the throne of David.

God's calling is without Repentance. The Jews will be a part of the Kingdom Age.

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Except when Jesus returns to Mount Olive with all the saints Zechariah 14:4-5, that’s the beginning of His everlasting kingdom on earth, ruling from Jerusalem, on the throne of David, and all that are His, Jew and gentile, will be with Him.

There will be no one in heaven but the angels, because Jesus, God the father, and all the children of God will be dwelling on the new earth in the city New Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven, forever. Rev 3:12, and Revelation 21 and 22.

The millennium is just the first thousand years of His eternal kingdom on earth, when Satan is bound. His kingdom is forever.

See the prophecies in Isaiah 9:6-7 and Luke 1:30-33 for starters.

Curtis said:

Except when Jesus returns to Mount Olive with all the saints Zechariah 14:4-5, that’s the beginning of His everlasting kingdom on earth, ruling from Jerusalem, on the throne of David, and all that are His, Jew and gentile, will be with Him.

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Well, both Jew and Gentile who were a Raptured part of his Bride, the Church. The other Jews like Daniel will be raised at the VERY END, they don't go to Heaven to Marry Jesus, they have already married God the Father long, long ago. In Dan. 12:1-2 it is clearly stated they will be raised at the very end, Daniel is never told he will go to Heaven before the Kingdom Age. We are with Christ, the Jews will be in the Petra/Bozrah area, we have glorious bodies, they don't because they will be a Kingdom in earth where Jesus rules with mankind to juxtapose Satan's evil rule vs. Jesus rule. As per the old testament Saints, they may be raised as we are coming back to earth to join us. But they aren't the 144,000. I know Rev. 14 shows that, but its just prose, Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter so, it has to show all three Harvests. In other words, just like Zechariah 14:1-2 is the Anti-Christ and Zechariah 14:3-4 is 3.5 years later and Jesus defeating the Anti-Christ, so is the Rev. 14 timeline jumping around also, yes Jesus shows up to save the Jews in Petra, but they are not with him as he lands on Mt Zion, that's just prose, that comes later.

Curtis said:

There will be no one in heaven but the angels, because Jesus, God the father, and all the children of God will be dwelling on the new earth in the city New Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven, forever. Rev 3:12, and Revelation 21 and 22.

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Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9-10 says different, In Rev. 5 they are REDEMEED, Angels do not need redeeming. And in Rev. 4 they are seen as being the very ones in the Church who were OVERCOMERS in Rev. 2:10, 3:5 and 3:21. They have on White Raiment, Crowns and sit at God's throne in Rev. 4:4. Then we see the Church in Rev. 7:9-17 and in Rev. 19 we see the Bride RETURNING with Jesus in Fine WHITE Linen which represents the Saints in heaven.

Rev. 21 is the New Jerusalem which comes AFTER Jesus' 1000 year rule, and AFTER Satan has been locked up for 1000 years and then freed to deceive the nations once again.

I agree, no humans save Elijah and Moses are now in Heaven.