Reconciling Romans 4:2 with James 2:24
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Jim B
Well-Known Member
Jim B
Well-Known Member
a) Why are you changing the subject?
b) Baptism is a symbolic burial of the old self. It is not a requirement for salvation; it is a statement only.
c) "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
d) Acts 8:36-38, "Now as they [Philip and the Ethiopian] were going along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is water! What is to stop me from being baptized?” So he ordered the chariot to stop, and both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him." Great! The Ethiopian was symbolically buried. It says nothing about his being justified by that action.
not referring to works alone!
We are members of Christ in his grace and filled with his spirit!
All our actions are meritorious baptized into Christ and his church! 1 cor 12:13 put on Christ! Gal 3:27
Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
1 Corinthians 12:26
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
Religion is what man owes to God for having created him in His image and likeness!
To Christ for having redeemed him in His own blood!
to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy mother church!
it only Christ by His grace (merits of His blood passion and death) that we are enabled and empowered to actually be holy and righteous and all our actions
if we live by the spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh
my grace is sufficient for you
Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!
our participation is required
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, (his grace and virtues work in us healing our defective nature and enabling us to be righteous and holy accomplishing his holy will!
Ez 36:25-27
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (and baptism? NO, simply faith) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism, so salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Acts 8:36 - And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *The eunuch believed and was saved before receiving water baptism.
baptism is part of what we believe
Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!
It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?
So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Jesus says: I remind you you’re still under oath!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
Jesus says: I remind you you’re still under oath!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
We are to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
Many people may believe "mental assent" iin the existence and in historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet sadly, refuse to believe in Him unto salvation by trusting in Him alone for salvation. Instead, they trust in works (including water baptism) for salvation. Such people reject authentic faith yet go on to get water baptized anyway because their faith is in baptism and not in Christ alone.
Jesus clarifies the first half of Mark 16:16 with ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. It's you who negates scripture by failing to properly harmonize scripture with scripture (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.
if they don’t accept the first part why bother with the second part?
but it is scripture and it does he who does believe must be baptized of possible
answer my questions please
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
Is this really a doctrine ?
I find it hard to believe that with all the sophisticated knowledge man supposedly has at his fingertips regardless of IQ standards that man CANNOT find doctrine as defined by God in his Spirit inspired word!
Maybe that's the problem, not being led of the Spirit into the understanding of God !
Head knowledge amounts to zero in the ways of God, but what our teacher aka the Spirit reveals to us is solidly from God for he speaks of what he has seen, heard and knows from the heavenly realm.
It is sad seeing so many heretics,unbelievers, agnostics,atheists, cults ,and apostates post on a forum for the wicked world to see that claims to be full of believers.
May mercy be shed abroad into hearts !
May the WORD rebuke YOU if you are such !!!!!!!!!!!!
I find it hard to believe that with all the sophisticated knowledge man supposedly has at his fingertips regardless of IQ standards that man CANNOT find doctrine as defined by God in his Spirit inspired word!
Maybe that's the problem, not being led of the Spirit into the understanding of God !
Head knowledge amounts to zero in the ways of God, but what our teacher aka the Spirit reveals to us is solidly from God for he speaks of what he has seen, heard and knows from the heavenly realm.
It is sad seeing so many heretics,unbelievers, agnostics,atheists, cults ,and apostates post on a forum for the wicked world to see that claims to be full of believers.
May mercy be shed abroad into hearts !
May the WORD rebuke YOU if you are such !!!!!!!!!!!!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You long post (as usual) is wrong (as usual).
You wrote "without the outward action the inward action cannot take place".
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8
I believe what the Bible clearly says, not your usual misinterpretation.
You constantly include the phrase "baptized into Christ". Will you ever understand what it means? It does not mean the ritual of water baptism, for then Jesus would have to be made of water.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV), "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." According to your flawed interpretation, this means that baptizing in water is actually drinking it!
And Galatians 3:27, " For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Now baptizing is "putting on".
So is it a) Jesus is made of water, b) drinking, c) putting on, or d) ..?
Romans 13:11-12, "And do this because we know the time, that it is already the hour for us to awake from sleep, for our salvation is now nearer than when we became believers. The night has advanced toward dawn; the day is near. So then we must lay aside the works of darkness, and put on the weapons of light." It is sad that you don't understand that Paul is speaking figuratively!
Do you think that we are all literally asleep? Is it a literal or figurative night? How does one "put on the weapons of light"?
According to your faulty reasoning, we are not saved! Yet throughout the New Testament, it says that we are saved! So hwta does Paul mean?
Paul means that our final salvation, when believers are rescued from this life to be with God eternally, has not yet happened.
When will you learn to interpret Scripture correctly??? You make one error after another, twisting the words of the Bible to mean something that they clearly do not!
Two suggestions...
a) stop using the King James Bible, which you clearly do not understand. Get a good modern translation, for example, the NIV, and read what Scripture actually says in your native language (modern English).
b) Stop your obsession with l-o-n-g posts. Try saying what you have to say without wasting everyone's time!
the HS leads the apostles into all truth Jn 16:13
They teach us lk 1:4 Matt 28:19 acts 2:31
Jim B
Well-Known Member
@theefaith
I have you on ignore bc of your heretical views and lack of understanding the word of God under the leadership of the Spirit.
Just had to see what nonsense was being disputed so yeah, I peeked, only to see the unmitigated ignorance ! Sorry I did !
May God make salvation available today by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that NONE should perish.
May He also Grant his mercy to those not seeking to know him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH !
I have you on ignore bc of your heretical views and lack of understanding the word of God under the leadership of the Spirit.
Just had to see what nonsense was being disputed so yeah, I peeked, only to see the unmitigated ignorance ! Sorry I did !
May God make salvation available today by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that NONE should perish.
May He also Grant his mercy to those not seeking to know him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH !
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I share your concern about theefaith. He is truly confused and lost. He compulsively posts one nonsensical idea after another.
I hate to even be tarnished by the same brush as those whom call themselves " christian"!
I am a believer and follower in the WAY of Jesus Christ, my Redeemer, God the Creator and Father of ALL, and the Holy Ghost, my teacher, Comforter, and my guide to eternity !
I am a believer and follower in the WAY of Jesus Christ, my Redeemer, God the Creator and Father of ALL, and the Holy Ghost, my teacher, Comforter, and my guide to eternity !
Jim B
Well-Known Member
No. I have never heard of him. What is C C?
It's nice to meet you also. There are some really confused people on this forum. It's nice to have your participation!
Hi,
It is known as Christian chat. Many are here from that sight that I know of.
It is truly sad to see so MANY who simply do not study the word by the Spirit but have taken man at his word INSTEAD OF GOD AT HIS Holy Spirit INSPIRED WORD.
Can this be changed ?
I pray and study that the Spirit will give me the words to speak. At times however the flesh just explodes out in "ENOUGH " and I'll give them MY WHATFOR........LOL.
I pray that someone is also trying to CORRECT my lost loved ones !
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
If someone doesn't believe in Jesus and rejects Christianity altogether, then they will not get water baptized, yet there are plenty of people in various false religions and cults who don't truly believe in Jesus unto salvation, yet get water baptized anyway. Such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence and in historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet such people are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) but instead, are trusting in their baptism (along with other works) to save them.
It logically follows that we get baptized after we believe the gospel, but if you are on your death bed and cannot get baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE (Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible mention "water baptized or condemned."
Were you born and raised in the Roman Catholic church? You appear to be unable to see anything beyond your Roman Catholic indoctrination.
Where does scripture say we are saved by grace through baptism?
Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25). Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him).
If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. Water baptism is the public proclamation of one's inward spiritual relation to Christ. Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality.
In Acts 2:47, we read - ..and the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. How are we saved? By grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith + what? Faith + nothing. Faith alone.
This is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.
Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Period) *Not through faith and water baptism.
Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." So how does one "put on" Christ in baptism? Is it because one becomes a "child of God" through water baptism? NO. Is Paul saying that we become children of God by water baptism as much as children of God by faith in Christ? NO.
"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:12,14) This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well. (Romans 13:14) Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.
CONTINUED...
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