OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

Christian Soldier · Apr 21, 2025

Taken said:
To elaborate…

We, us, our, in context of individuals… All have FREEWILL Choice, to Believe or Reject as They “individually Elect”.

It IS that which an individual CHOOSES to “Believe or Reject”, which WILL “APPLY” to Them.

Blankety “I” Believe “ALL” Scripture “IS TRUE”.

Do “I” individually “Believe, Accept, Apply “ALL” Scripture TO ME, Individually? No.

Do “I” individually “Reject Applying” SOME Scripture “TO Me”? Yes.

Did I just, exercise “my” FREEWILL of Choice…”pick and choose”? Yes.

Is it TRUE a person can follow after Jesus? Yes.

Is it TRUE a person can follow after Satan?
Yes.

Is it TRUE an individuals “Choice” to Believe and follow Jesus IS Rejecting Satan…and Vise Versa? Yes.

Point is:
Good / Evil
Right / Wrong
Light / Dark
Up / Down
With / Without
Spiritual / Natural
“ARE ALL” Scriptural Truths…
An Individual “Freely Choosing” one, IS Rejecting the “opposing”. <—> picking and choosing

Glory to God,
Taken

Men have interpreted the bible in countless different ways over the past 2000 years, this is why we have around 47,000 different Christian Denominations. Yet all of these Denominations fall into one of two theological categories.

One believes that salvation is a joint effort between God and man (you obviously hold to that view) and the other view is that salvation is all of the Lord from the beginning to the end and man doesn't contribute anything to his salvation (that's the view I hold to).

We will never agree on the core bible doctrines, while we hold to radically different interpretations of the gospel. The debate over the two gospel versions has been raging for the past 500 years and the Church has disintegrated into countless denominations over this very issue.

Christian Soldier · Apr 21, 2025

Jack said:
You said you HATE your own parents!

That is a lie, I never said I hated my parents. I was only quoting the Lord Jesus Christ, so your problem is with the Lord and not me

Christian Soldier · Apr 21, 2025

Jack said:
Those who hate others are not forgiven their sins. Jesus said so!

Now you're accusing Jesus of hypocrisy, don't you have any fear of the Lord at all???

Jack · Apr 21, 2025

Christian Soldier said:
That is a lie, I never said I hated my parents. I was only quoting the Lord Jesus Christ, so your problem is with the Lord and not me

Quoting YOU: "Yes I hate my parents and I hate my life, because I obey my Lord and Savior."

God's Hatred

This is not a request! Matthew 5:44 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, Nobody is denying that Jesus did say that, but we need to consider the context in which it was spoken. We can't pluck out short verses and force the rest of the bible to conform to it. Remember, Jesus is God. He is...

www.christianityboard.com

Post #25

GracePeace · Apr 21, 2025

Can we all relax with all the needless drama? Christ says hate your parents and even your own life or you can't be His disciple. It's not controversial. Stop acting like it is just so you can "score a point". You're not scoring a point.

Taken · Apr 21, 2025

Christian Soldier said:
Men have interpreted the bible in countless different ways over the past 2000 years, this is why we have around 47,000 different Christian Denominations.

LOL

Christian Soldier said:
Yet all of these Denominations fall into one of two theological categories.

Must have been a daunting, time consuming task to investigate some 47,000 different Christian denominations to arrive at your conclusion.

Christian Soldier said:
One believes that salvation is a joint effort between God and man (you obviously hold to that view) and the other view is that salvation is all of the Lord from the beginning to the end and man doesn't contribute anything to his salvation (that's the view I hold to).

Actually as I take the Liberty to Speak for myself…
Salvation IS a Gift that belongs to the Lord God, which He promises to Give to men WHO freely “CHOOSE to believe IN Him”.
Which Scripture calls:

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

And The Lord Gods Direction and Promise to Reward Believers who CHOOSES (elects) to SERVE Him.

Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Christian Soldier said:
We will never agree on the core bible doctrines, while we hold to radically different interpretations of the gospel.

It is your prerogative to believe or reject as you choose.
It is not your prerogative to speak for me.

Glory to God,
Taken

Christian Soldier · Apr 26, 2025

Jack said:
Quoting YOU: "Yes I hate my parents and I hate my life, because I obey my Lord and Savior."

God's Hatred

This is not a request! Matthew 5:44 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, Nobody is denying that Jesus did say that, but we need to consider the context in which it was spoken. We can't pluck out short verses and force the rest of the bible to conform to it. Remember, Jesus is God. He is...

www.christianityboard.com

Post #25

OK, so now you admit that you reject all of those things God said, which you don't like. I don't do that I embrace the whole counsel of the Lord, even those things you hate.

When you reject Gods Word, you commit the sin of idolatry, and you set yourself up as your own god.

Christian Soldier · Apr 26, 2025

Taken said:
LOL

Must have been a daunting, time consuming task to investigate some 47,000 different Christian denominations to arrive at your conclusion.

Actually as I take the Liberty to Speak for myself…
Salvation IS a Gift that belongs to the Lord God, which He promises to Give to men WHO freely “CHOOSE to believe IN Him”.
Which Scripture calls:

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

And The Lord Gods Direction and Promise to Reward Believers who CHOOSES (elects) to SERVE Him.

Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

It is your prerogative to believe or reject as you choose.
It is not your prerogative to speak for me.

Glory to God,
Taken

There is only One Truth and His Name is the Lord Jesus Christ, so I can speak for you if you believe the Truth. The Truth said things like -

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

If you believe what Gods Word says, then you agree that God choses to save some and leave others in their sin. You can't twist the above verses to make them fit your unbiblical view, whereby you get to chose God and not the other way around.

And how do you deal with Gods Word, when it confirms that nobody seeks God. You say men can seek God but God's Word says they don't, so I'm forced to believe what you say over what Gods Word clearly states.

Romans 3:10-12 “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

The above verses clearly say that "no one seeks for God", but you claim they do, so I have no choice but to reject your theology as being unbiblical and false.

Taken · Apr 26, 2025

Christian Soldier said:
There is only One Truth and His Name is the Lord Jesus Christ, so I can speak for you if you believe the Truth. The Truth said things like -

No need for you to Speak for me…You have the option to agree or disagree.

Christian Soldier said:
John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Christian Soldier said:
If you believe what Gods Word says, then you agree that God choses to save some and leave others in their sin.

And? Did “I” say otherwise?

Christian Soldier said:
You can't twist the above verses to make them fit your unbiblical view,

Instead of giving your “Accusation”, based on what “YOU SAY”…
“QUOTE” “my words” (supposedly “as you claim are “unbiblical”)!

Christian Soldier said:
whereby you get to chose God and not the other way around.

God Offers men a Relationship “WITH” Him.
Really? You don’t think Establishing A Relationship Between “Two” IS EACH “choosing the Other”?

Christian Soldier said:
And how do you deal with Gods Word, when it confirms that nobody seeks God. You say men can seek God but God's Word says they don't, so I'm forced to believe what you say over what Gods Word clearly states.

Romans 3:10-12 “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

The above verses clearly say that "no one seeks for God", but you claim they do, so I have no choice but to reject your theology as being unbiblical and false.

You seem to Overlook, not Understand…CONTEXT.
Natural born men DO NOT ALL hear, learn, About God the moment they are Naturally Born.
And Anciently, Historically humans could live decades without Ever Hearing About God…of course they were Not Righteous, Nor Sought after a god they had not heard of, and well noted, even some who Did Hear ABOUT Him, did Not Seek after Him.

In CONTEXT, did you Not Hear, Learn, particularly After Jesus Arrived, and Began His Ministry…MANY sought after Him?
And SOME for centuries Have Sought after Him, Followed Him, To this Day, HAVE Freely CHOSEN to Submit Unto Him…
Such individuals have numerous “descriptions”.
Forgiven
Prepared
Covered
Sanctified
Justified
Righteous
Overcome
Saved
Quickened
IN Christ
Christ’s Church
Sealed

Did ANY Ancient men “Seek” After God?
Sure.
Do you “really” think that Had a “deadline”?

Deut. 4:
[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

1 Chr 16:
[10] Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
[11] Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.

Pss 69:
[32] The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.

Pss 105:
[4] Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

Isa 55:
[6] Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Luke 11:
[9] And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Yes, people ARE taught, encouraged and SOME DO Seek the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Christian Soldier · May 3, 2025

Taken said:
No need for you to Speak for me…You have the option to agree or disagree.

And? Did “I” say otherwise?

Instead of giving your “Accusation”, based on what “YOU SAY”…
“QUOTE” “my words” (supposedly “as you claim are “unbiblical”)!

God Offers men a Relationship “WITH” Him.
Really? You don’t think Establishing A Relationship Between “Two” IS EACH “choosing the Other”?

You seem to Overlook, not Understand…CONTEXT.
Natural born men DO NOT ALL hear, learn, About God the moment they are Naturally Born.
And Anciently, Historically humans could live decades without Ever Hearing About God…of course they were Not Righteous, Nor Sought after a god they had not heard of, and well noted, even some who Did Hear ABOUT Him, did Not Seek after Him.

In CONTEXT, did you Not Hear, Learn, particularly After Jesus Arrived, and Began His Ministry…MANY sought after Him?
And SOME for centuries Have Sought after Him, Followed Him, To this Day, HAVE Freely CHOSEN to Submit Unto Him…
Such individuals have numerous “descriptions”.
Forgiven
Prepared
Covered
Sanctified
Justified
Righteous
Overcome
Saved
Quickened
IN Christ
Christ’s Church
Sealed

Did ANY Ancient men “Seek” After God?
Sure.
Do you “really” think that Had a “deadline”?

Deut. 4:
[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

1 Chr 16:
[10] Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
[11] Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.

Pss 69:
[32] The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.

Pss 105:
[4] Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

Isa 55:
[6] Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Luke 11:
[9] And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Yes, people ARE taught, encouraged and SOME DO Seek the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Your theology is inconsistent with what Gods Word instructs us to do in;

Acts 20:27-28 . For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

I notice you sidestep all the scriptures which confirm that man has no free will or free choice and that he is born with a sin nature which causes him to hate God and serve his sin instead of serving God. God's Word confirms that we are born dead in our trespasses and sin.

You seem to believe that a God hating, spiritually dead man who loves his sin, can somehow change his own nature and forsake what he loves and seek after what he hates and embrace it instead. There is nothing in the bible to support this doctrine.

If I was to accept your doctrine, then it would mean that God's Word contradicts itself, because you have listed a bunch of verses which seem to suggest that man does have a free will and he can choose to seek God, repent and profess faith in Christs atoning work on the cross for the forgiveness of his sin and be saved.

I'm sure you're aware of the long list of verses which confirm that nobody has a free will and we are al born into bondage to sin and Satan. As such we don't have the power to change our nature, Gods Word confirms that sinners don't come to the light, lest their evil deeds be exposed.

You would agree that God doesn't contradict Himself, so whenever it seems that His Word is contradicting itself, it simply means that our understanding of His Word is deficient. Those verses you cited, must be speaking about those God is already working in. They are being led by the Holy Spirit to seek Him, so God is the One who initiated the transformation and He is the One who finishes the work of salvation.

God is the author and finisher of our faith, we don't contribute anything to the work of salvation. Everything we have and everything we are was given to us by God Himself. God purchased His Children at a very high price, His Son did everything necessary to save His Children, so it is highly offensive to suggest that He failed to finish the work and we are required to step in and complete the work Christ failed to finish.

Taken · May 4, 2025

Christian Soldier said:
Your theology is inconsistent with what Gods Word instructs us to do in;

You exercising your FREEWILL to make Accusations Against me IS Accounted to you.

Christian Soldier said:
Acts 20:27-28 . For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

All true. Who said Otherwise?

Christian Soldier said:
I notice you sidestep all the scriptures which confirm that man has no free will or free choice and that he is born with a sin nature which causes him to hate God and serve his sin instead of serving God. God's Word confirms that we are born dead in our trespasses and sin.

I am not Accountable for your Lack of Noticing what I have Said in Agreement with Gods Word over the Duration Of Time of my membership on this Forum.

Christian Soldier said:
You seem to believe that a God hating, spiritually dead man who loves his sin, can somehow change his own nature

If it “seems” to You, that I believe a man
can as you say:
@Christian Soldier “change his OWN nature”…
Why not Prove your claim and Quote me, MAKING such a Claim?

Christian Soldier said:
and forsake what he loves and seek after what he hates and embrace it instead. There is nothing in the bible to support this doctrine.

There is NOTHING in my posts, whereby, I have made such a Claim.

Christian Soldier said:
If I was to accept your doctrine,

You would First have to BE Informed of “my Doctrine” to decide your acceptance or rejection.
Clearly, you Are Not Informed.

Christian Soldier said:
then it would mean that God's Word contradicts itself,

No. As I have said Before…
All Scripture IS TRUE.

Christian Soldier said:
because you have listed a bunch of verses which seem to suggest that man does have a free will

Man does Have FREEWILL.
Man can Freely Believe, Reject, Accuse…as you yourself have demonstrated.

Christian Soldier said:
and he can choose to seek God, repent and profess faith in Christs atoning work on the cross for the forgiveness of his sin and be saved.

Yes. Man can Freely Accept or Reject Gods Offering of Salvation.

Christian Soldier said:
I'm sure you're aware of the long list of verses which confirm that nobody has a free will

If you have NOT FREEWILL…”WHAT” (other than your FREEWILL ) made You Accuse me?

Christian Soldier said:
and we are al born into bondage to sin and Satan.

Well aware of the Natural mans Forming, Developing, without his Knowledge or Consent.
Are you attempting to Argue, that which did not Exist, (a formed, born, living man), was NOT given the Option, BEFORE he existed, IF he WANTED TO Exist?

Christian Soldier said:
As such we don't have the power to change our nature,

WHO at any time Declared “THEY” have the POWER to Change THEIR Nature…
QUOTE ANYONE making that Claim.

Christian Soldier said:
we don't contribute anything to the work of salvation.

Men do Not perform the act / works of Salvation.

Men DO perform the ACT / WORKS of Agreeing to ACCEPT Gods Gift of Salvation.
(otherwise, Gods Gift of Salvation would be Forced upon a man, Without his will to Consent or Ageement to receive Salvation).

(A parallel …
If a Bank WANTS you to borrow money From them…can they solicit you and Offer a Loan to you…or simply (without your consent) send you money ?

Salvation IS an Offering From God, to all men.
A man can FREELY Take or FREELY Reject (by NOT Taking), His Offering.

Not complicated.

Glory to God,
Taken

GracePeace · May 4, 2025

Behold said:
Actually the Father of Gnosticism , was "Valintinus'.

He almost became a POPE.
So, to say "the early church" refuted "Gnosticism".......you must not be talking about the Cult that almost made Valintinus their Pope.

1 John was written to counter Gnosticism, and Valentinus came later, so, no, he was not the origin of Gnosticism.
Maybe it was Simon Magus, or Cerinthus, but, no, it wasn't Valentinus.

Christian Soldier · May 4, 2025

Taken said:
You exercising your FREEWILL to make Accusations Against me IS Accounted to you.

All true. Who said Otherwise?

I am not Accountable for your Lack of Noticing what I have Said in Agreement with Gods Word over the Duration Of Time of my membership on this Forum.

If it “seems” to You, that I believe a man
can as you say:
@Christian Soldier “change his OWN nature”…
Why not Prove your claim and Quote me, MAKING such a Claim?

There is NOTHING in my posts, whereby, I have made such a Claim.

You would First have to BE Informed of “my Doctrine” to decide your acceptance or rejection.
Clearly, you Are Not Informed.

No. As I have said Before…
All Scripture IS TRUE.

Man does Have FREEWILL.
Man can Freely Believe, Reject, Accuse…as you yourself have demonstrated.

Yes. Man can Freely Accept or Reject Gods Offering of Salvation.

If you have NOT FREEWILL…”WHAT” (other than your FREEWILL ) made You Accuse me?

Well aware of the Natural mans Forming, Developing, without his Knowledge or Consent.
Are you attempting to Argue, that which did not Exist, (a formed, born, living man), was NOT given the Option, BEFORE he existed, IF he WANTED TO Exist?

WHO at any time Declared “THEY” have the POWER to Change THEIR Nature…
QUOTE ANYONE making that Claim.

Men do Not perform the act / works of Salvation.

Men DO perform the ACT / WORKS of Agreeing to ACCEPT Gods Gift of Salvation.
(otherwise, Gods Gift of Salvation would be Forced upon a man, Without his will to Consent or Ageement to receive Salvation).

(A parallel …
If a Bank WANTS you to borrow money From them…can they solicit you and Offer a Loan to you…or simply (without your consent) send you money ?

Salvation IS an Offering From God, to all men.
A man can FREELY Take or FREELY Reject (by NOT Taking), His Offering.

Not complicated.

Glory to God,
Taken

I accept full responsibility for accusing you of holding to a false gospel, and I accept responsibility for attempting to correct you. A wise man loves correction, but a fool hates you for it.

When you claim that man has a free will, you're saying that he can choose to change his nature. But the Bible is crystal clear that a leopard cannot change his spots, and neither can a man change his nature. A dead man can do nothing, except stink like a corpse does, but your saying that a dead man can raise himself from the dead and change his wicked nature to a holy nature. That is pure heresy.

Nobody had any say or choice, as to what they were created to be. God is the One who has all the say. He created everyone to be exactly what they are, can the thing created ask the Creator, "why hast thou made me like this"?. No you don't get to question anything God does.

With all due respect, I have no regard for your private doctrines, I'm only interested in Bible doctrines. I refuse to go down private unbiblical rabbit holes with anyone, if your doctrine is not supported by the Bible, then I have no choice other than to reject it and denounce it. Nothing personal here, it's a question of honoring God's Word.

Taken · Monday at 3:01 AM

Christian Soldier said:
I accept full responsibility for accusing you of holding to a false gospel, and I accept responsibility for attempting to correct you. A wise man loves correction, but a fool hates you for it.

Pat on head.

Christian Soldier said:
When you claim that man has a free will, you're saying that he can choose to change his nature.

Hogwash!

I have made no such Claim.
Nor am I Accountable For Your LACK of Understanding, and Attempts to Gaslight me WITH YOUR Lack of Understanding.

A mans NATURE is his Life, WHICH IS his BLOOD.

ONLY the Lord God Almighty, CHANGES a mans Nature From (Natural) TO (Spiritual.)

IT IS The Lord God…
WHO Offers to MAKE the CHANGE.

IT IS the MAN…
Who can Desire the CHANGE.
Who CAN “Ignore, Accept or Reject” the Offering!!!

Christian Soldier · 2025-05-10T17:44:32-0500

Taken said:
Pat on head.

Hogwash!

I have made no such Claim.
Nor am I Accountable For Your LACK of Understanding, and Attempts to Gaslight me WITH YOUR Lack of Understanding.

A mans NATURE is his Life, WHICH IS his BLOOD.

ONLY the Lord God Almighty, CHANGES a mans Nature From (Natural) TO (Spiritual.)

IT IS The Lord God…
WHO Offers to MAKE the CHANGE.

IT IS the MAN…
Who can Desire the CHANGE.
Who CAN “Ignore, Accept or Reject” the Offering!!!

We obviously don't believe in the same gospel message. The gospel message you believe is radically different to the one I believe, so we will never agree with each others view.
Your theology is all messed up and incoherent, as you consistently contradict yourself by claiming that you believe that only the Lord God Almighty changes a mans nature, while claiming that a man can choose to become spiritual.

You can't have it both ways, man either has a free will or he doesn't. You can't claim he does when it suits your theology, then deny it when it exposes your theology as being flawed.

I ask you again, "what would cause a man who is born spiritually dead, and only loving his sin and hating God and serving Satan to suddenly change his nature and love the God he hates and hate his bondage to sin and Satan.
If you believe man is capable of doing that, then you believe that you are more powerful than Satan and you can overcome your lust and sin, (even though the bible tells us that He is the most powerful creature in the universe).

If I was to accept your version of the gospel, then I would need to reject everything the Lord said about the matter. The Lord said that man is born dead, so I need to remind you again that a dead man can do nothing to make himself alive. All he can do is sin and stink.

You haven't shown me a single verse in the bible which would support your idea, that a corpse can quicken himself to life and change his nature from a God hater to a God lover. Nobody in the history of mankind was ever born with a free will, all of us were born into slavery to sin and Satan. We all love our sin too much to ever choose to deny serving sin and our our lust. Everyone naturally lives to fulfill their lust and nobody can ever change that fact.

The only way a person can be set free from bondage to si9n and Satan, is if God quickens them to life and sets them free form bondage to sin and Satan. You free will is utterly useless, against such powerful enemies.

Taken · 2025-05-10T18:15:15-0500

Christian Soldier said:
Your theology is all messed up and incoherent, as you consistently contradict yourself by claiming that you believe that only the Lord God Almighty changes a mans nature, while claiming that a man can choose to become spiritual.

You obviously do not comprehend the DIFFERENCE Between:
* A man “CHOOSING” to accept Gods Offering of Salvation…
And
* God “DOING” the works Of “SAVING” such a man.

Christian Soldier said:
You can't have it both ways,

Actually what “I can NOT Do”, is understand For you.

Christian Soldier said:
man either has a free will or he doesn't.

Forming a worthy genuine “Relationship Between Two” Requires EACH to Freely choose the Other.

Seems your theology, is purporting, IF God chooses a man…the man is forced to have a relationship with God.

Taken · 2025-05-11T03:09:28-0500