Why I love the Bible

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Deborah_

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But there is a difference between inspired and inspiring.
God can speak through a donkey.

Anything written by anybody can be "inspiring". But only God's word is inspired by God.
The New Testament is full of quotations from the Old Testament - all using the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) which often differs from the Hebrew text that we have. And yet the apostles evidently regarded it as being as inspired as the original.
That being the case, how can we claim infallibility?

"Perfection" is an absolute state. Something can be good, reliable and faithful without being perfect. Personally, I don't like the word "infallible" - when applied to the Bible, it's often pushed too far. "Reliable" is more how I would describe it.
For me, it's a thing of wonder that a perfect God should use IMperfect human beings (and imperfect human language) to communicate in. He just doesn't seem to be as obsessed with perfection as we are. And His word has such power that its truth is conveyed even through imperfect translations. It's conveyed through the KJV, despite its English being outdated (to the point of causing confusion in some places). It's conveyed through all the modern translations as well (even though they differ from one another - because there's often more than one way of saying the same thing).
 

Deborah_

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I've dug out an article that I wrote quite a few years ago:

“God means what He says, and He has a meaning for every word that He says. All His works and all His words are perfect, in their choice, order and place. So perfect, that, if one word or expression is used, there is a reason why no other would have done.” (author unknown)

This is a beautiful statement, and I share that delight and confidence in God’s Word. However, the more I think about it, the more reservations I have: it’s a wonderful sentiment, but it’s poetic exaggeration. If it were taken too literally, we would be reduced to despair – because we cannot know what God has said with such perfect exactitude.

Let me explain:

Firstly, we do not possess the original Scriptures (for either the Old Testament or the New Testament). We have copies of copies – very good, very accurate copies, for the most part – but they differ one from another in small ways. The texts from which our Bibles have been translated (the Received Text, for example) have been prepared by “textual critics”; they are not manuscripts in their own right but compilations made from many different sources in order to try and eliminate the spelling mistakes, omissions and additions that have crept in over the centuries. One example that I have come across is Revelation 22:14. In the KJV, this says, “Blessed are those that do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life…” But the modern versions, following a different text, have, “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life…” There’s a bit of a difference, isn’t there! When I investigated this, I discovered that there are many variations between the manuscripts of the book of Revelation; this is just one of the most obvious. And whenever archaeologists discover a more ancient document somewhere (e.g. the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls), the standard text may need to be adjusted to take account of it.

Secondly, it's impossible to be totally precise in translating one language into another. This is not only because words rarely have exact equivalents in another language, but also because of widely diverse grammatical systems. Russian has no articles (‘a’ and ‘the’); Japanese doesn't distinguish between singular and plural. There must be many nuances of Greek and Hebrew that we miss in English, all unknowingly.

Yet God’s Word is flawless (Proverbs 30:5)! It's both powerful and flexible enough to communicate His truth in any and every language. Not because of every ‘jot and tittle’ being in exactly the right place, but because the Speaker Himself is totally reliable! And so we can enjoy His Word in English – and rejoice in the details with confidence – but exact precision, fortunately, is not necessary.
 
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JohnDB

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Answer: all of them.

It doesn't matter which one you use - God will speak to you through it.

There is of course no such thing as a "perfect" translation. All languages have ambiguities, and word definitions rarely correspond exactly between one language and another.
Yeah....

So the reality is that in Acts 2 the 11 Apostles spoke 16 languages....
Meaning....the Apostles weren't really speaking the foreign languages but the people were hearing 16 different languages.

Musta been the sweet wine.
 

BarneyFife

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I have a reputation as someone who hates the Bible.
This is not true.

Which led to this previous topic.


Though I question much of the doctrine and apologetics from my religious upbringing,
I really did benefit from the biblical emphasis. And I took the time to read to book cover-to-cover.
Highly recommended.

The reason for this topic is to celebrate my own retention of such.

Why do you love the Bible?

[

Do you feel like you've been successful in celebrating your own retention of the biblical emphasis of your religious upbringing?

A serious question for which I wouldn't mind a serious answer.

:)
 
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St. SteVen

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Do you feel like you've been successful in celebrating your own retention of the biblical emphasis of your religious upbringing?

A serious question for which I wouldn't mind a serious answer.
Yes. Not sure if "celebrating" is the right word. (I'm in recovery)
It has definitely stuck with me.
Things I still agree with and things that I don't.

[
 
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Lambano

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TS2009 is the ONLY translation inspired by God.

The naming conventions are much better and consistent than any other translation. Especially the KJV system which uses a mish-mash of rules to transcribe names.

This translation was created by Christian Jews. (AKA Messianic Jews)
Meaning they have a more proper attitude towards the scriptures than any other English translation in existence. I tend to prefer it over NIV or ESV. (Both of which are perfectly fine translations dedicated to accuracy.)
Interesting. Bible Gateway and Bible Hub don't have the TS2009 translation, but I found it here:

Yoḥanan (John) 1 | TS2009 Bible | YouVersion
 
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BarneyFife

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Yes. Not sure if "celebrating" is the right word. (I'm in recovery)
It has definitely stuck with me.
Things I still agree with and things that I don't.

[

I'm just using the words in the OP.

So, the purpose of the thread was to help you recover from (rather than celebrate) the benefit of your own retention of the biblical emphasis of your religious upbringing?

Am I understanding you correctly?

:)
 

Rockerduck

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I've dug out an article that I wrote quite a few years ago:

“God means what He says, and He has a meaning for every word that He says. All His works and all His words are perfect, in their choice, order and place. So perfect, that, if one word or expression is used, there is a reason why no other would have done.” (author unknown)

This is a beautiful statement, and I share that delight and confidence in God’s Word. However, the more I think about it, the more reservations I have: it’s a wonderful sentiment, but it’s poetic exaggeration. If it were taken too literally, we would be reduced to despair – because we cannot know what God has said with such perfect exactitude.

Let me explain:

Firstly, we do not possess the original Scriptures (for either the Old Testament or the New Testament). We have copies of copies – very good, very accurate copies, for the most part – but they differ one from another in small ways. The texts from which our Bibles have been translated (the Received Text, for example) have been prepared by “textual critics”; they are not manuscripts in their own right but compilations made from many different sources in order to try and eliminate the spelling mistakes, omissions and additions that have crept in over the centuries. One example that I have come across is Revelation 22:14. In the KJV, this says, “Blessed are those that do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life…” But the modern versions, following a different text, have, “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life…” There’s a bit of a difference, isn’t there! When I investigated this, I discovered that there are many variations between the manuscripts of the book of Revelation; this is just one of the most obvious. And whenever archaeologists discover a more ancient document somewhere (e.g. the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls), the standard text may need to be adjusted to take account of it.

Secondly, it's impossible to be totally precise in translating one language into another. This is not only because words rarely have exact equivalents in another language, but also because of widely diverse grammatical systems. Russian has no articles (‘a’ and ‘the’); Japanese doesn't distinguish between singular and plural. There must be many nuances of Greek and Hebrew that we miss in English, all unknowingly.

Yet God’s Word is flawless (Proverbs 30:5)! It's both powerful and flexible enough to communicate His truth in any and every language. Not because of every ‘jot and tittle’ being in exactly the right place, but because the Speaker Himself is totally reliable! And so we can enjoy His Word in English – and rejoice in the details with confidence – but exact precision, fortunately, is not necessary.
You must realize that Rev. 22:14 in the Textus Receptus Greek is correct in "do his Commandments". All other translations are using the Critical text, or rather, the corrupted Wescott and Hort Greek, which mistranslates it to washed robes, or maybe mistranslated on purpose. Put your money on the KJV or NKJV to be correct.
 

BarneyFife

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The Interweb is so packed with AI-generated Bible information websites containing typical AI-liable misinformation that folks practically need a degree in AI Technology to decipher them.

I read one just today comparing the KJV to the NKJV that was so obviously buggy I gave up less than halfway through the article.

People wanting to dig deeper than their favorite translation itself are going to have to be well on guard to avoid being misled.

:)
 

Rockerduck

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The Interweb is so packed with AI-generated Bible information websites containing typical AI-liable misinformation that folks practically need a degree in AI Technology to decipher them.

I read one just today comparing the KJV to the NKJV that was so obviously buggy I gave up less than halfway through the article.

People wanting to dig deeper than their favorite translation itself are going to have to be well on guard to avoid being misled.

:)
I did too. AI is not accurate at all. One time AI said the KJV was missing verses. I checked later and it had no missing verses and was the least accurate. I checked again months later and the KJV is the most accurate.
 

St. SteVen

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So, the purpose of the thread was to help you recover from (rather than celebrate) the benefit of your own retention of the biblical emphasis of your religious upbringing?

Am I understanding you correctly?
No, not really.
Maybe celebrate is the right word. (compared to recover)
Sorry to be waffling on this. I didn't realize that you were asking about the purpose of the thread. ???

Though I have issues with my religious upbringing, I admit to great benefit in some aspects of it.
Especially the strong biblical emphasis.

A few more topics that discuss the dilemma with my religious upbringing.

Plundering my religious upbringing - The desert island question


Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.


[
 

JohnDB

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Another False Teaching. @JohnDB

See, its the "Gift of Tongues" .. not the "gift of hearing them".
Only 11 Apostles....
How do 11 apostles speak 16 languages at the same time? Only one voice, lips, tongue per person.

The miracle was in the hearing and not the speaking in this instance.
 

JohnDB

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Interesting. Bible Gateway and Bible Hub don't have the TS2009 translation, but I found it here:

Yoḥanan (John) 1 | TS2009 Bible | YouVersion
It's a tad difficult for a lot of people to get used to....

To me, it's a bit clearer of what a person who grew up speaking a verb based metaphoric language would think in terms of writing.

It's the same scriptures with the same translation....but just worded a touch different.

It's an update from the ISR 98. (Now difficult to find)

I discovered this translation one day while reading though an expositional commentary that was comparing various translations as to which was actually closest to the verses at hand due to the language. I instantly had to look up the ISR and find out all the details about this translation.

Without the American bent of focus It's a rather unique translation. Messianic Jews of South Africa....they speak English and have a heavy reverence for keeping Jewish traditions. Just saying.....the WHOLE EARTH is the LORDS.
 
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Behold

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The miracle was in the hearing and not the speaking in this instance.

Its a "Gift of Tongues"....... not a gift of "hearing".

Let me show you something.

Peter was not preaching to SAVED Born again Christians...during Pentecost.... He was preaching to Christ rejecting Jews.

So, all the GIFTS, that are listed by Paul.......all 9 are for the CHRISTIANS..........not for the unbelievers..

Now, if we pretend........just for your sake @JohnDB .........that the "gift of HEARING"... is one of the 9 spiritual Gifts.....then that one also would not be for an UNBELIEVER.

So, there is no "Gift of Hearing" for Christians, on Paul's 9 "spiritual gifts" list....but if there was, then NO JEW at Pentecost would have been given it to "hear" Peter, as they were all unbelievers, and God does not give spiritual gifts to unbelievers.
 

JohnDB

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Its a "Gift of Tongues"....... not a gift of "hearing".

Let me show you something.

Peter was not preaching to SAVED Born again Christians...during Pentecost.... He was preaching to Christ rejecting Jews.

So, all the GIFTS, that are listed by Paul.......all 9 are for the CHRISTIANS..........not for the unbelievers..

Now, if we pretend........just for your sake @JohnDB .........that the "gift of HEARING"... is one of the 9 spiritual Gifts.....then that one also would not be for an UNBELIEVER.

So, there is no "Gift of Hearing" for Christians, on Paul's 9 "spiritual gifts" list....but if there was, then NO JEW at Pentecost would have been given it to "hear" Peter, as they were all unbelievers, and God does not give spiritual gifts to unbelievers.
Ummmm
Even God can do maths.

There is no way possible for 11 people to speak 16 languages simultaneously. Especially when they do not know the languages.
However, there is the realistic possibility that as an idiom of speech they called it "the gift of Tongues " because God thought that what they were saying was important enough that HE translated what the Apostles were saying into the natural languages of the hearers....even those who didn't want to believe or chose not to.

I CAN believe that most readily and easily as THAT would easily fit well inside Greek/Latin and Hebrew/Aramaic idioms of speech.

Even with the 13 tribes of Israel being counted as 12 throughout the entire Old Testament.

And YOUR answer doesn't hold water or logic....even spiritual logic. Physics are something God created....and omnipotence demands that God is perfectly efficient with no unintended side effects. The answer I've given is likely and plausible. What you have said makes no sense whatsoever.

If you can explain with better logic han what you have used, I might be persuaded to believe what you are saying....but at the moment.....NOPE.
 

St. SteVen

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There is no way possible for 11 people to speak 16 languages simultaneously.
Why would it be limited to eleven?
all = more than just the Apostles
The outpouring was for every one of them.

Acts 2:1 NIV
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.

[
 

Behold

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Ummmm
Even God can do maths.

There is no way possible for 11 people to speak 16 languages simultaneously.

You are limiting God to your opinion, based on not actually studying the spiritual gift of "tongues".

Had you studied it... then you would perhaps have realized that God causes the "tounges" to manifest according to the hearer, as their language.

Notice......its the "gift of TONGUES"... plural......or "more then one, can be many".....at once.

So, the reason they "heard in their own langauge" is because Peter was using the gift of "Tongues".
God was manifesting it according to the hearer........vs, causing the hearer to supernatually hear it in their particular dialiect.
The Miracle, the supernatural, was in the "tongues", not in the hearing.,... and to those Jews........this was a "sign"..

Paul teaches this as..

"Tongues are for a SIGN"

"Signs, are for The JEWS".