The elephant in the room is the Trinity, which isn’t my God.
It's your elephant. I've told you that I see a tri-unity. I've told you I don't accept all of the creed language. Many Christians don't and we don't break bread over it. Many many Christians don't even try to understand it. They see Father Son Holy Spirit + John 1:1 and that's enough. Trinity is really only a big thing on the internet. People love to go at it. Christians in person do not sit around and discuss the trinity. It's just not what it's about! There is a way of life and a deep love for God because He first loved us that is what it's about. You are stuck on it Matt which confuses me. I have never thought that a Christian needs to accept the trinity creed to be a Christian. I've told you what a Christian is to me. I'm not alone there.
The church soon departed from Jewish monotheism and gradually became trinitarian. If we’re looking for the source of division, we‘ll find it in church history. Jewish monotheists aren’t the ones who moved away from the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism, destroyed the Jewish dogma and anathematized it.
Jewish monotheism was, is, and always will be exclusive. It‘s open to Jew and gentile alike, but it isn’t open to other theologies.
Christianity is also exclusive. I included you in it. If you denied Jesus as God in the flesh and refused to worship our Messiah I would not have.
The choice in scripture is between Jewish monotheism and idolatry. As a Jewish monotheist, what am I to do with that?
Idolatry. ... What you do with that is what you choose to. A JW would call you an idolater for worshiping God's son. They see a mutually exclusive God who wants all of the glory for Himself and His Son as a creature being unfit for worship. If you did that I would not embrace you as a brother.
While the creeds of trinitarianism anathematize Jewish monotheists / me, I don’t anathematize trinitarians in return. (Many Jewish monotheists do.)
Ditto.
Not all trinitarians anathematize Jewish monotheists who believe Jesus is the Messiah. They treat me as they would treat Jesus himself. They are the exception. What am I to do with that?
Love us back is all. We are brothers in Christ.
I don't honor creeds!
Those who won't extend a hand of fellowship in love towards you may not be saved. I don't know. I think maybe many have had the creed beat into their heads since childhood and see it that way- that's a guess. I don't know.
Like I've said I don't know may like that. I have never been in a church yet that speaks about the trinity much. They speak about God and His Son our Lord and the Spirit of God who lives in us. They speak about what love God has shown us and encourage us in our daily walk. Maybe some do- idk I have never seen that.
On the whole, I’m treated by zealous trinitarians as an unbeliever, a false teacher, deceived and a deceiver, destined to be thrown in the lake of fire. You’ve seen it yourself on this forum.
I haven't see that but I believe you. I rarely read a whole thread. I know what that's like though. I've been called the son of satan by my own family and jws here- for accepting Christ as my only Savior for forgiveness of my sins. Yet, they feel "persecuted"..
Just know that we have one judge.
I’m fully persuaded that Jewish monotheism is the way. Nothing trinitarians have said, so far, has persuaded me that it isn’t.
I understand that. I don't fully understand what you believe. I know you have a different take on John's prologue. What is it about that prologue? I just see it says what it says. I had to accept what it says- like it or not.
Do I think it's crucial to understand everything perfectly? No. I know I don't. Some things just aren't as important as the end result. If God accepted me in Christ and He accepted you in Christ why would I reject you? Isn't that the same as rejecting Him?
It isn’t what zealous trinitarians say about me that causes me any concern. It’s what those who are able and willing to compromise with trinitarianism that does.
If I concern you that's because you have a different definition of what a Christian is than I have written.
How can I deny the Spirit of God in another? I can't.
It takes discernment perhaps and I have prayed for that. Could be why. I don't know for sure.
Remember Matt, I was not raised in a Christian church- I was raised in a Christ-less cult. I came to Christ in my 30's. Alone just me and God.
There was no creed. I never read it. I hated the trinity since Jws do. But my problem was I was not allowed to have my sins forgiven by Jesus blood- that was not taught. I really wanted to know this Jesus but I was not allowed to. He is really only for their "elect" class. I had to be their "other sheep" who didn't get to be born anew.
(JWs who say otherwise are not being honest. I just verified that again with my 40 yr JW sister the other day who is a full time pioneer.- dying is how they pay for their sins. She flat out said even Hitler will be raised sinless
because he died.)
When I prayed back then I ask Jehovah if it would be ok if I could just talk to His son for a minute. I was shaking and scared that he would deem me an idolater and kill me. 30 yrs of that teaching is hard to shake. After praying I let it go and found myself reading Romans and Ephesians and comprehending most of it.
I was in total shock. I never knew any of that. JWs don't teach any of that. I could not believe my eyes. I flat out cried at Matthew 11. I knew my prayers were answered. I got on my knees and thanked my Lord for dying for my sins, and asked Him to help me live right. There is nothing like that. Nothing. His love covered over me in a warm embrace. It's been many years since that day and it's been very hard at times, but I wouldn't change a thing. I did not accept a single thing about any trinity, but I wanted my sins covered and I wanted to say thank you to Jesus. That's when I understood that we love because He first loved us.
I am far beyond denominational bickering. I hate it. I look at what counts. I wrote to you what counts. I believe true Christians are in many denominations, and it's not about that. It is within us that counts. Is Christ in you- that's the test.
Can there be Christians in some of the cults? I don't think so. How if they deny Christ?
I don't see Christ in JW family. I see self-righteousness, works, a false gospel, and finger pointing at all others. They are the only true church you know..
I will reject anyone else who makes that claim too.
It's not about the true church building. It is the temple of His body and we are spread out all over the globe. it is an individual thing. Very exclusive- yes. He knows who are His and we hear His voice. I did nothing to deserve to be a child of God. It's all about Him.
I hope you can make sense out of that. I don't demand that you accept me as a brother. It's ok. You are where you are in your walk and maybe one day we will meet. Just know my arms are open.
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