The Third Woe

The Light · Mar 15, 2026

Douggg said:
Jesus doe not return until after the 7th vial event has taken place. Armageddon is in Revelation 16:13-16, following the 6th vial poured out in Revelation 16:12. Revelation 16 is about the vials, not the trumpets.

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. How do you not understand that Lord has returned and set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is already over.

It's the time of judgement. Do you think that God calls timeout on wrath and has judgment. And then starts more wrath. Or do you think Christ has set up His kingdom on the earth and is giving rewards and judgement. THINK.

Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Douggg · Mar 16, 2026

The Light said:
Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. How do you not understand that Lord has returned and set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is already over.

"are become" not "have become".

"are become" indicates a process has begun of taking away the influence that Satan has over the kingdoms of this world.

The process begins when the seventh angel sounds his trumpet and Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth. The process will last a time/times/half time - until the day that Jesus returns.

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When we read Revelation 12:12. we find two reactions...

1. them in heaven rejoice that Satan is finally meeting his end.
2. them on earth - woe, because Satan will be exerting great wrath knowing his time if is short.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Now let's look at the reaction of the twenty four elders in heaven, in Revelation 11:16-17.

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Are the twenty four elders in heaven not rejoicing ? Yes, they are rejoicing. The time of the end of Satan's influence over the kingdoms of this world has finally come.

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Next, lets look Revelation 11:18, the twenty elders continue to reflect... on what is to take place, since Satan has been cast down to earth.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The nations were angry about the plagues that the two witnesses had called down to earth, so during the time that Satan has left, God's wrath will take place on earth. While in heaven, the souls of them who have died in Christ will receive rewards for their dedication to Jesus during their lifetimes... 2Corinthians5:10.

While on earth, God's wrath will exert vengeance on the wicked men of the earth who will be carrying out destruction on earth against the great tribulation saints.

Trekson · Mar 16, 2026

The Light said:
Deut 18
4 The firstfruit also of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him.

Neh 10
39 For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers: and we will not forsake the house of our God.

From what I gather in the Christian tradition it is counted from first fruits. In the Jewish Tradition it is counted from Passover.

This might have to do with the Jewish day begins in the evening and encompasses the following day.

Pentecost, Shavuot, is the first fruits of the wheat harvest. The actual harvest takes place in the summer.

Fifty days after Pentecost is the Feast of New Wine. Fifty days after the Feast of New Wine is the Feast of New Oil.

The Feast of New Oil is very likely the time that the 144,000 of the 12 tribes are sealed. This means they are Christians and are the first fruits of the second harvest.

The feasts of new wine and another of new oil aren't in scripture. Both Deut. 18 and Neh. 10 are talking about them as tithes and offerings to those who have temple duties, not in relation to feasts.

Trekson · Mar 16, 2026

The Light said:
John is given a vision that contains 7 trumpets of God's wrath. The vision ends at the 7th trumpet.

John is given another vision that contains 7 vials of God's wrath. The vision ends at the 7th vial.

Both visions are about the same timeframe.......the 7th seal wrath of God.

The information is different, but the timeframe is the same.

The vision of the vials is more intense than the trumpets. But it's still Gods wrath.

Take for instance Pharoh's dream of 7 healthy cows and 7 sickly cows. The seven sickly cows ate the 7 healthy cows.

Then Pharoh has another dream of 7 healthy ears of corn and 7 thin ears of corn. The seven thin ears ate the 7 healthy ears.

These are two visions of the same timeframe. The results will be the same, 7 good years followed by seven bad years and the bad years will eat the good years.

The same "time frame" would be the healthy corn and thin corn growing together in "one" period of seven yrs. This actually proves my point of things being 'separate" from each other. The 7 good years and the 7 bad years are 'not" the same seven years.

The Light · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
"are become" not "have become".

"are become" indicates a process has begun of taking away the influence that Satan has over the kingdoms of this world.

Well, maybe the New King James version can help or any other translation for that matter.

Revelation 11
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The [f]kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

THINK! Get out of the way and let the scripture speak for itself.

Douggg said:
The process begins when the seventh angel sounds his trumpet and Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth. The process will last a time/times/half time - until the day that Jesus returns.

Dude. The complete wrath of God is over when the 7th angel sounds the trumpet. Christ has set up His kingdom on the earth. Just read what the Word says and get out of the way.

Douggg said:
------------------------------------------------------
When we read Revelation 12:12. we find two reactions...

1. them in heaven rejoice that Satan is finally meeting his end.
2. them on earth - woe, because Satan will be exerting great wrath knowing his time if is short.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Now let's look at the reaction of the twenty four elders in heaven, in Revelation 11:16-17.

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Are the twenty four elders in heaven not rejoicing ? Yes, they are rejoicing. The time of the end of Satan's influence over the kingdoms of this world has finally come.

Goodness. The 24 elders are rejoicing and casting their crowns before the throne because they are in the presence of God. They have been raptured to heaven. This is before the seals are opened.

Douggg said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Next, lets look Revelation 11:18, the twenty elders continue to reflect... on what is to take place, since Satan has been cast down to earth.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The nations were angry about the plagues that the two witnesses had called down to earth, so during the time that Satan has left, God's wrath will take place on earth. While in heaven, the souls of them who have died in Christ will receive rewards for their dedication to Jesus during their lifetimes... 2Corinthians5:10.

While on earth, God's wrath will exert vengeance on the wicked men of the earth who will be carrying out destruction on earth against the great tribulation saints.

Douggg, the wrath of God is OVER when the 7th angel sounds.

Satan is going into the bottomless pit for 1000 years.

There are no more vials. When the 7th angel sounds there is no more wrath. It's all over. Christ has set up His kingdom on the earth. The exact same thing happens in the vision of the vials. When the 7th vial is poured out it's over.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The Light · Mar 16, 2026

Trekson said:
The feasts of new wine and another of new oil aren't in scripture. Both Deut. 18 and Neh. 10 are talking about them as tithes and offerings to those who have temple duties, not in relation to feasts.

Does the wheat harvest happen at Pentecost? No. Pentecost is the time of the barley harvest and the FIRST FRUITS of the wheat harvest.

The Feast of Trumpets is a fall fruit harvest. It is for the 12 tribes across the earth, seed of the woman.

The Light · Mar 16, 2026

Trekson said:
The same "time frame" would be the healthy corn and thin corn growing together in "one" period of seven yrs.

How do you come up with this. There is a period of 7 good years and 7 lean years for a total of 14 years.

Joseph saved grain from the good years so Egypt would have grain for the 7 bad years.

Trekson said:
This actually proves my point of things being 'separate" from each other. The 7 good years and the 7 bad years are 'not" the same seven years.

Of course they are not the same years. There are two seven year periods for a total of 14 years.

The whole point is that there are two different visions of the same timeframe. Just as in Revelation there are two different visions of Gods wrath. The vials DO NOT follow the trumpets. When the 7th trumpet sounds the wrath of God is over. Just as when the 7th vial is poured out the wrath of God is over.

Ronald David Bruno · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:1-6 attack the nation of Israel. The Gog/Magog attack on Israel will be 7 years before Jesus returns.

View attachment 81417

The scripture says nothing here about what you are claiming!

>Ezek. 39:6 states clearly Jesus Second Coming when he destroys his enemies:
"I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.

>He comes, every eye sees Him, His wrath is displayed and they all know who He is, Jesus. The Jews and the world know.
See write here:
7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

>Then the war over when the clean up starts. Of course old weapons named are symbolic for new since they would not understand bullets, missiles ... nukes.
9 “‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel. 10 They will not need to gather wood from the fields or cut it from the forests, because they will use the weapons for fuel. And they will plunder those who plundered them and loot those who looted them, declares the Sovereign Lord.

> Here in Ezel 39:21-23, Jesus' glory is realized. The prophecy announced in Romans 11, where the blindness of Israel will be taken away in the end times is at this time, by the end of the Great Tribulation:
"I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them.
> Glory is displayed for all Christians alive at this time. Unbelievers are not receiving this enlightenment, the recieve wrath, death
22 From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offenses, and I hid my face from them."

>Again, by this time THE WAR IS OVER, restoration AND BURIALS comes IN the Millennial Kingdom:

25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name.

Ronald David Bruno · Mar 16, 2026

The Light said:
Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. How do you not understand that Lord has returned and set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is already over.

It's the time of judgement. Do you think that God calls timeout on wrath and has judgment. And then starts more wrath. Or do you think Christ has set up His kingdom on the earth and is giving rewards and judgement. THINK.

Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I am an adherent of the Mid-Trib/Pre-wrath view. How does that work? You identified the last trumpet ( #7, in Rev. 11:15-19) where many events happen, when Jesus returns and we are raptured. Yes, Jesus possesses His Kingdom throughout the world, which means the A tichrist's/ Satan's reign IS OVER. BUT THE WRATH IS NOT OVER. It is the worst part of the Great Tribulation, the finale.
Seven bowls of Wrath are released. This does not last for 1 day. It is after the 1260 days but within that 1335. So the judgment of the bowls may last 40-75 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. DAN.12:12

In Rev. 16:1-21, the seven angels are commanded to pour the seven bowls of wrath upon the earth. Sorry that does not last 1 day. Is the command for the birds to feast for 1 day too ... "Hurry up little birdies ... gets your last meal" For what? Eat in the morning and die in the evening? I don't think the birds die after their feast. Jesus restores all animals who managed to survive to their intended state without the curse of sin; in harmony, non-predators, no prey, non- meat eaters. As Isaiah describes this harmony in the
Millennial Kingdom ( Isaiah 11:6-9)

ewq1938 · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
"are become" not "have become".

"are become" indicates a process has begun of taking away the influence that Satan has over the kingdoms of this world.

But not "are becoming". There is no process happening here. It is complete which is why the next verse speaks of reigning forever, not slowing becoming and slowing reigning over time.

Douggg · Mar 16, 2026

Ronald David Bruno said:
The scripture says nothing here about what you are claiming!

>Ezek. 39:6 states clearly Jesus Second Coming when he destroys his enemies:
"I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.

The verse is saying that the God of Israel is the Lord and not Allah the god of the muslims.

Ronald David Bruno said:
>He comes, every eye sees Him, His wrath is displayed and they all know who He is, Jesus. The Jews and the world know.
See write here:
7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

No, it does not say in Ezekiel 39:6-7 that every eye sees Him.

Ronald David Bruno said:
> Here in Ezel 38:21-23, Jesus' glory is realized. The prophecy announced in Romans 11, where the blindness of Israel will be taken away in the end times is at this time, by the end of the Great Tribulation:

I think you made a typo. Should be Ezekiel 39:21-23.

Ezekiel 39:21-23 is Jesus speaking in the text having returned to earth.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the feast on the dead, same as Revelation 19:17-18, at Jesus's return.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 is at the end of the seven years in Ezekiel 39:9 that will follow the Gog/Magog event.

Gog/Magog - then 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9) - then after the 7 years, (Ezekiel 39:17-20) the feast on the dead at Jesus's return.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

Trekson said:
Sorry bro, but you're the one that is clueless.

Says the guy who is incapable of making a coherent argument using scripture. Okay, just keep misinterpreting every verse you read then, if you insist.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
Spiritual Israelite thinks that the time frames in Revelation are figurative and not literal. So maybe it's best if we just put him on ignore.

Yes, go ahead and ignore the truth that you're shown by those who actually understand the book of Revelation and continue to interpret scripture in your carnal, hyper-literal, hyper-futurist, scripture twisting, non-discerning fashion if you insist.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

Trekson said:
I would love to, how do we do that?

Yes, you would love to run away and hide instead of learning anything. No surprise.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
Go to one of his post. And on his screen name to the left, click on that. A window will open that gives information about him. In that window (right below the points number), it gives the option "ignore". Click on that.

I just put him on "ignore" myself.

Great job, Douggg. Continue believing falsehood instead of being teachable and learning something. You spend who knows how many hours on these forums spewing false doctrine and you never learn anything. What a waste of your time. I'll be better of not wasting time on you.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
Hi Trekson, were you able to "ignore" Spiritual Israelite ?

LOL. It's funny how the ones with the least amount of spiritual discernment ignore those who they could learn from if only you were teachable.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

The Light said:
Just because the WOE is mentioned DOES NOT mean that they are the same event.

Revelation 12 is saying woe to the inhaviters of the earth for the DEVIL is come down to you. The three woes that within the 7th seal wrath of God...trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are Gods wrath on an unbelieving world.

Revelation 12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

You need to rethink this brother. Armageddon is happening at the 7th trumpets. It's God wrath and the Day of the Lord.

Right. We may not agree on the details of these things, but I fully agree that the 3 woes that correspond with the last 3 trumpets are God's wrath while the woe mentioned in Revelation 12:12 is Satan's wrath. But, you can't expect people like @Douggg and @Trekson to understand such simple things as this since they understand literally nothing.

Douggg · Mar 16, 2026

ewq1938 said:
But not "are becoming". There is no process happening here. It is complete which is why the next verse speaks of reigning forever, not slowing becoming and slowing reigning over time.

"are become" is correct because God at the time the seventh trumpet sounds, exerts His power to have Satan cast down to earth. God directs the seventh angel to sound his trumpet. Satan having his influence over the nations will span a time/times/half time.

Spiritual Israelite · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
"are become" is correct because God at the time the seventh trumpet sounds, exerts His power to have Satan cast down to earth. God directs the seventh angel to sound his trumpet. Satan having his influence over the nations will span a time/times/half time.

"Are become" is completely nonsensical and a bad translation. Every other English translation says "have become" or "has become" (depending on whether it says kingdom or kingdoms). The verse is either saying that the kingdom(s) of the world are becoming the kingdom(s) of God the Father and Son when the seventh trumpet sounds or it says the kingdom(s) of the world have become the kingdom(s) of God the Father and Son when the seventh trumpet sounds. Based on what is written in Revelation 11:18, it should be clear that it's saying the kingdom(s) of the world have become the kingdom(s) of God the Father and Son at the seventh trumpet.

Ronald David Bruno · Mar 16, 2026

Douggg said:
The verse is saying that the God of Israel is the Lord

Jesus is Lord and the context is His return, towards the end of the GT.

Douggg said:
Ezekiel 39:21-23 is Jesus speaking in the text having returned to earth.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the feast on the dead, same as Revelation 19:17-18, at Jesus's return.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 is at the end of the seven years in Ezekiel 39:9 that will follow the Gog/Magog event.

I did make a typo. But if you agree that these verses are towards end of the GT, you must realize the beginning of the chapter leads up to that point a d the dead from that outcome will be buried during the first 7 months of the Millennial Kingdom. But let's not go back and forth - we disagree - just leave it.

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