The Third Woe

ewq1938 said:

The Euphrates is still blocking the path at this timeframe. As I said and as scripture presents, the 6th vial must pour before the army can gather to the location.

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Go read Revelation 9:14-19. The Euphrates is in those verses.

Revelation 16:12, says specifically the kings of the east, not all kings of the earth. The kings of the east are the ones in Revelation 9 that will have an army numbering 200,000,000. And kill a third of men. The second woe. That is what Revelation 16:12 is saying takes place before other events that eventually led up to the kings of the earth gathering their armies as Armageddon.

To understand Revelation 16:12-16, a person has to be aware of, knowledgeable of, other prophecies in the bible.

ewq1938 said:

It's the kings of the Earth and of the whole world in verse 16

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But not in verse 12,

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

You have to understand what those kings of the east are going to do when the Euphrates is dried up as the sixth vial is poured out, in order to understand the sequence of events leading up to verse 16.

ewq1938 said:

That even is long over by the time the 6th vial pours.

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One of your many misunderstandings is the placement of the woes on the timeline.

The second woe takes place in Revelation 16:12 as the kings of the east, their armies numbering 200,000,000 kill a third of men.

Douggg said:

One of your many misunderstandings is the placement of the woes on the timeline.

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Says the guy who places the beginning of the third woe at the same time as the beginning of the first woe despite these verses which clearly say otherwise.

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

ewq1938 said:

It is your many misunderstandings about the placement of the woes on the timeline. You have the second woe far away from where it actually is. The 2nd woe is over long before any vials pour. There's nothing about kings of the East in the woe passage either. Thart's pure eisegesis.

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Post your time line chart that has the placement of the second woe on it.

ewq1938 said:

here's nothing about kings of the East in the woe passage either. Thart's pure eisegesis.

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The "Euphrates" is in only two passages in Revelation. Revelation 9:14 pertains to the second woe. And the kings of the east movement in Revelation 16:12. Obviously, the two passages are connected.

Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

ewq1938 said:

No chart is needed, nor are they helpful.

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Yes, I acknowledge you lack of ability.

Making time-line charts provides a visual approach to showing the chronological relationship of events.

Ronald David Bruno said:

That's what you think.

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Actually, that's what I know.

Ronald David Bruno said:

Look at all that happens at the 7th trumpet (Rev. 10:7; 11:15-19)
1. Kingdoms of the world become our Lords

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Exactly. The kingdoms of this world become the of our Lord. That means Armageddon is over and Christ has set up His kingdom. Wrath is over.

Ronald David Bruno said:

3. Wrath comes in the 7 Bowls released

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Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet. The 7 vials of wrath happen in the time frame as the trumpets which is the 7th seal. When the 7th trumpet/7th vial occur wrath is over.

Ronald David Bruno said:

4. Temple of God is opened in Heaven
5. Rewards are given
6. Dead are judged

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Exactly. Wrath is over. It is the time of rewards and judgement.

Ronald David Bruno said:

7. Lightnings, Thunder, great hail

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Exactly. The very thing that happens at the 7th vial. The 7th trumpet and 7th vial occur in the same timeframe. When the 7th trumpet sounds you can be sure the first 6 vials have already occurred.

Ronald David Bruno said:

8. Mystery of God is revealed/ finished

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Exactly. Wrath is over.

Ronald David Bruno said:

It's all inclusive, a time period of 1335 days. 1260 of which the Antichrist is in control, then Jesus shows up.

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The wrath of God lasts one year and does not include any of the great tribulation as the great tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

Ronald David Bruno said:

Technically the whole Great Tribulation is part of His wrath - it's judgment.

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Not at all. According to scripture the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God is the 7th seal.

Ronald David Bruno said:

But at the time of the last ( 7th) trumpet is blown, the seven bowls of God's wrath are released - much more intense after the Church is gone - all he'll breaks loose.

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No sir. When the 7th trumpet sounds you can be sure the first 6 vials have already happened.

Ronald David Bruno said:

Well, I have a different view on that. When Jesus ascended 2000 Years ago, He was handed the scroll at that time. He removed the seals and.opened it!. How else could we know what was inside? It is just a scroll filled with orders that would be carried out at a later time, like a play written. The play doesn't start until the stage is set and actors are ready. John is shown what each seal means. Read it. With each seal _ as it's opened _ the angel says, "Come and see" what this represents... at a future time. So the angel shows him visions of the future.

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Correct. John has a vision of what occurs when the seals are actually opened. They are opened in the future.

Ronald David Bruno said:

The GT actually starts when the trumpets star to blow. The trumpets and bowls fall within the seals.

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The great tribulation is when the dragon is killing Jews around the world, which are the seed of the woman Israel. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.

The 7th seal contains the wrath of God which are the trumpets and vials. The trumpets and vials occur in the same timeframe.

Ronald David Bruno said:

The scroll is like a transparent sphere of events that overlap and are accumulative. As you turn the sphere, you see events within that line up like different vantage points. God can only show us and describe one thing at a one, but many things are happening simultaneously - which is why it is confusing. It is not chronologically happening one at a time as shown - it can't possibly work that way since by the 7th seal, the earth looks like it should be totally devastated, with most of the people dead yet still more to come in the trumpets and bowls events?

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The seals are in chronological order. The 7th seal contains the trumpets and vials of wrath.

Ronald David Bruno said:

>>> But you go abead and have it your way - however you want to see it and understand it. No need to squabble about it.

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Not interested in my way. Just interested in the truth. Fortunately, the Word of God explains the Word of God so we can eliminate most of the confusion.

The Light said:

The kingdoms of this world become the of our Lord. That means Armageddon is over and Christ has set up His kingdom. Wrath is over.

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At the 7th Trumpet, seven bowls are released. Listen mich of Revelation is not chronological, but this is. In the beginning of the chapter the two witnesses are give. 1260 days. That must be part of what previously occurred aince Rev. 6. But then it fast forwards to ther death, on day 1260, leaving 75 days. The Antichrist and Satan are given 1260 days, Then Christ comes and takes it away. He has to possess it to judge it ... but it's not over do the math. "The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come," ...
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” vs. 18
19 "... And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
This is a description of what happens Rev. 16:17-21 . These events fall within Rev. 6:12-17.
You see it another way, that's okay, not gonna continue to insist that my way is right.
I read a book long ago by Jack Hayford ( an enlightened, Spirit -filled Pastor), called "E Quake". He claimed the seals are the orders on a scroll that had already been opened long ago and the trumpets and bowls are the actions falling within (with all the future events not starting until the trumpets blow). He aligned the Great Earthquke in Rev. 6:12 and Rev. 16:18 as the same one; and that it was the key to understand Revelation and that it was not in chronological order. We are shown different vantage points one at a time. But much of this is happening simultaneously.

Ronald David Bruno said:

At the 7th Trumpet, seven bowls are released. Listen mich of Revelation is not chronological, but this is. In the beginning of the chapter the two witnesses are give. 1260 days. That must be part of what previously occurred aince Rev. 6. But then it fast forwards to ther death, on day 1260, leaving 75 days. The Antichrist and Satan are given 1260 days, Then Christ comes and takes it away. He has to possess it to judge it ... but it's not over do the math.

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A lot of verbiage. Lean how to make time line charts of events. I use Corel Paintshop Pro Ulitimate 2023. It's available on Amazon. Around $59.

Douggg said:

A lot of verbiage. Lean how to make time line charts of events. I use Corel Paintshop Pro Ulitimate 2023. It's available on Amazon. Around $59.

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It's no wonder you don't understand scripture. It's all words and no charts. The rest of us can understand scripture without charts, so for you to keep telling everyone to make charts is ridiculous. No one but you needs to do that.

Douggg said:

A lot of verbiage. Lean how to make time line charts of events. I use Corel Paintshop Pro Ulitimate 2023. It's available on Amazon. Around $59.

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That's your problem and everyone else's. If some of Revelation is not chronological, which means events overlap, and we are given multiple vantage points, with the same events ( like the great earthquake) explained in a different setting, timeline charts are sketchy at best. Nobody is absolutely sure. If you claim one crucial event wrongly, what good is your chart. It's like a treasure map with mistakes or key clues left out ... you won't find the treasure!
Fortunately in our case, we already have our treasure and however it pans out, we are eternally saved.

Ronald David Bruno said:

That's your problem and everyone else's. If some of Revelation is not chronological, which means events overlap, and we are given multiple vantage points, with the same events ( like the great earthquake) explained in a different setting, timeline charts are sketchy at best. Nobody is absolutely sure. If you claim one crucial event wrongly, what good is your chart. It's like a treasure map with mistakes or key clues left out ... you won't find the treasure!
Fortunately in our case, we already have our treasure and however it pans out, we are eternally saved.

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A time line chart is like a picture.

Let;s take, for example, the subject of a bicycle. A person could use a lot of verbiage to describe a bicycle. But a
picture of a bicycle makes it clear what a bicycle is. The verbiage and the picture - jointly makes things clearer.

A time line chart with verbiage, likewise, jointly makes things clearer. Without a time line chart of events, verbiage alone is inadequate.

Making time line charts take a some learning. And a good graphics program like Corel Paintshop Pro Ultimate 2023 makes it all worthwhile.

The thing about making time line charts is it requires the creator to think - about how events fit together relevant to each other.

ewq1938 said:

Rev 11 shows the 2nd woe/6th trump is during the time of the 2W.

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No, Revelation 11:3-13 verses do not contain anything about a third of men killed by an army of 200,000,000.

The two witnesses leave this world in Revelation 11:12, followed by a big earthquake in Jerusalem in Revelation 11:13 which 7000 men in Jerusalem will be killed by the earthquake. Which is not the second woe, which a third of mankind will be killed by an army of 200,000,000.

Learn how to make time line charts, to understand when the second woe takes place on the time line.