CONTEXT is King?
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Wow! And what have I "done to the least of these"--of what exactly do you accuse me of?
In this world all things are made manifest having form and seen. But all who are born of the Spirit are unseen. And as you say, with God all things are possible--donkeys that talk, angels that appear like men, Jesus walking on water, entering through locked doors, and a host of other miracles. Wherein Jesus gave His flesh to the church, saying, "Take, eat, this is My body."I believe Jesus can take on any form he chooses.
After his resurrection he was walking on the shore and met naked Peter, and they all sat down to eat fish.
Of course there is Thomas who also saw him in a flesh body.
There are a lot of characters (Angels) in the OT that show up in the flesh from time to time.
Standing under trees and such.
Mary saw a gardener. He went up to Jerusalem and was witnessed by a lot of people.
But after he ascended I don't believe he needed the flesh in order to "prove" to the disciples he was alive.
With God, All things are possible.
Indeed, with God all things are possible--without being limited to stone temples or flesh and blood.
Yes, by false doctrine more damage is done. As for God's own, some He never knew.
"Can" was for you--not me imagining alternative "potential" of scripture--but me hoping reason would be possible. Apparently not.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
When I think about the context of this saying, I don't hear it as an actual eating of flesh and blood.
That is in opposition to both the OT and the NT where Paul says that we should abstain from blood.
Act 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Jesus tells us himself that he is the bread sent down from heaven. He is the true manna. Not like Moses gave in the wilderness.
That was a physical substance and it could not feed them the way Jesus could.
I believe Jesus was speaking spiritually as in the Word or His words are the bread of life.
And that his blood is his spirit that is poured out on us for the remission of sins.
I see some churches today, that take this literally even believing that by some magician trick they can turn bread into flesh.
And wine into blood.
To me it seems idolatrous.
But eating the words he spoke and drinking in his spirit as living water, this resonates with me. I don't find this offensive at all.
This is my body which is broken... nothing was broken in his physical body.
And this is the feast of the passover and the bread was unleavened, I hear
1Co 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Jesus said something similar when he told to the disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.
Mat 16:11
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Jos 24:14
Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
Cannibalism still exists in the world today. And those traditions of other gods and human sacrifices still go on today.
1Co 10:20
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
The bible has a few things to say about wine. It can make one glad when they are mourning. It is a mocker.
Eph 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
I take what Jesus said about eating his flesh and drinking his blood Spiritually literally but not carnally literally.
When we share the Gospel we are breaking bread. When we are gathered together his Spirit is poured out like on the day of Pentecost.
And I won't take you down the rabbit hole of adrenochrome. Which is in my opinion beyond abomination.
I'm just saying, context matters, which lane do you choose?
I'm staying with the spiritual application rather than the one they observe in some churches today. A lot actually.
Hugs
Wrangler
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Scott, in your rush to oppose my point, I believe you invoked the wrong verse. Mt 7:2 reads, Indeed, you will be judged by the very standards to which you hold other people.
I believe you meant to cite John 2:19 Jesus answered them, z“Destroy this temple, and in three days aI will raise it up.” And I'll wait to reply further so you can confirm what verse you're relying on to make your point.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
ziggy they were not busybodies . if they had been in error for reporting those who were gathering sticks ,He wasn't picking up food though, he was picking up sticks.
Busybodies is what they was. And talebearers.
So while they pointed out this man's sin, somehow their own sin escaped their notice.
That is called hypocrisy.
'
Apparently No one was staying in their place.
Hugs
then the bible had made that clear .
Sin had to be exposed . It still must be e xposed within the church .
However we put none to death as some could b e put to death under the law .
but oh yes sin and error must always be corrected . So be encour aged ziggy . Let us
be refreshed in prayer , in the scriptures and honor HE who has saved us . Now to the trenches one and all . The hour is late .
Wrangler
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I accuse you of being in denial of the soulful aspect of our existence, of being overly spiritual, of taking verses in Scripture that address worldly, bodily, soulful, fleshy matters - that we are commanded to address - and turning them into what they are not.
- Exhibit A. Denying it's not possible to go too far spiritually. We don't Sabbath 7 days per week.
- Paul said if we don't work, we shouldn't eat in direct response to people of his time becoming overly spiritual, sitting around doing nothing waiting for the end times.
- 42 For I was starving, and you left Me with no food.
- When I was dry and thirsty, you left Me to struggle with nothing to drink.
- 43 When I was alone as a stranger, you turned away from Me.
- When I was pitifully naked, you left Me unclothed.
- When I was sick, you gave Me no care.
- When I was in prison, you did not comfort Me.
Wrangler
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That's nice. This is for you ... "can" you answer the question of what set of words would address the world, if not God so loved the world, he gave his only son?
You believe well!
Much of what you pointed out is parable language--God's way of teaching. Parable language, is Spirit language.
As for context, yes, we are born into the context of this world where all things would seem to have their own context, and they do. But they are like the bread from heaven, only given in parable, that only the Spirit in us can truly understand--for the things of God are of their own context also, and therefore the scriptures must be "rightly divided" keeping the kingdom of this world separate from the kingdom of God holy and pure.
No, I would have even quoted Matthew 7:2, because of the measure you used (but was being kind, not wanting to publicly ridicule).
With all of those things you cite, you were suppose to understand them as examples (like bread referring rather to the Word of God). God did that--gave many things in parable having greater spiritual meaning--not me. But you have totally failed, and the result is that you are an accuser.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Rightly dividing the word of truth.
Some things can have both applications of spiritual and carnal at the same time.
We are to have charity, love towards one another. We should have hospitality and taking care of each others short comings.
If you see your neighbor and he has no coat and you have a coat and a thick flanel shirt. You should share so your neighbor or even a stranger don't go cold.
People do a lot of good things for each other all the time. It's just it don't make the "Breaking News" headlines that they should.
But maybe it's not broadcasted so it can be done in humility so people dont become hmm puffed up.
The Sabbath is a day of rest from all OUR toil and was given to Israel as one day a week. It shows that sometime we will stop trying to save ourselves and let God.
So when we say Jesus is our Sabbath every day, because we no longer try to "earn" our own righteousness, we don't try to "save" ourselves.
Jesus says, Come unto me all ye that are heavy laden (sin) and I will give you rest.
And we rest in this assurance every day.
Mat 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Heb 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
2Ti 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
I think everybody should take a day at least one day a week to refresh their bodies from working or performing services.
God told Moses to give the Hebrews a day off because Pharoah who they were slaves to, gave them no rest at all.
He worked them to death. And beat them into submission.
And that's when Moses said ENOUGH! and took judgment into his own hands and killed the Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew.
So our physical bodies do need to take a break and to not let the cares of this world come between our relationship with the Lord.
But in the spiritual sense, we are no longer toiling to save our ownselves and seek our own righteousness.
Jesus has done all the work for us.
So when God finished creating the world and everything in it, he rested from all his work.
He didn't have to keep creating and rebuilding the foundation over and over again.
Same way when Jesus finished the work of removing Sin and death (spiritual) in the world, He ascended to heaven and is resting.
Same way we rest in that once we believe that Jesus took away our Sin and we no longer have to "earn" our own righteousness, because he already has provided that spiritual manna everyday, then we can spiritually rest in this confidence of salvation everyday.
Jesus is our Spiritual Sabbath that our spirit rests in from all our works.
Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Hugs
Wrangler
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Bread is not one of the 6 worldly, soulful items specified, showing you’re taking a fleshy command falsely into a symbolic reference out of context. Good day.
There is nothing out of context in the Word of God of the Word of God. Bread is the context.
As for "one of the 6 worldly, soulful items"-- What worldly teaching of men, taught you such delusion?
"The world is passing away" "lay up your treasures in heaven."...just to name a few.
NayborBear
Active Member
I can tell ya this ScottA. this "parabolic" example you cited in this post, called "transubstantiation" by catholics, is a real thing! Not done during sacrament/s, nor communion*. Yet in, some might declare, in an over spiritualized state of becoming "born from above!"
*(I guess it could be though.....But due to traditions of man making void the Word of God? It has long since lost its true meaning and, I believe has become more of a symbolic ritual for those of the flesh rather than "in truth and in spirit" in its original intent)
And, it's not a "I know and you don't" moment!
But? I know!
NayborBear
Active Member
And even more than that Ziggy!
Even the "land!"
An obedience still being done by farmers (or used to be) by not planting a crop on a "parcel of land." A term called "Lying Fallow" for a year, to allow "Sabbath" for the land.
But, because of the "greed factor" and "Dow Chemical's moto:" "Better living through chemistry!" I highly suspect this commandment got tossed by the wayside.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Other than the Levitical laws and sacrificing animals for sins, I find the commandments are commonsense.
A lot of them seem silly like keeping certain fabric separated like silk and wool.
But there is always an underlying reason behind those laws.
Silk was for the Priests and wool was for the congregation.
How did they get silk?
And purple they had to get from certain shellfish, even though shellfish in itself was unclean.
So you have to look into the laws and not just take them at face value.
There are lessons in them if one takes the time to listen.
Every seven years the land should rest. That way it can regenerate it's own vitamins and minerals needed to sustain us.
And if we did that, then our crops in the sixth year would be doubled. If we believed God promises it would be so.
I hear you
Hugs
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