Demonic forces.

doctrox · May 24, 2026

This level of hate is demonic. Its beyond normal human emotion and reasoning.

When one denies the power given to Jesus, one renders, by default, to the pretender known as Satan. Demonic forces. These ppl have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof; from such turn away (2 Tim. 3).

Once again, I am not talking about the kings or rules themselves.

That's a non sequitur. There's only one Lawful authority. Either the government to which you have submitted is built on God's order, or it is built on the enemy's. Simple.

As per our example of Jesus, a genuine Godly authority ("kings or rulers") cannot do anything but that which the Father has declared. Light, or darkness; to which authority of the two have you voluntarily aligned your free will choice?

The authority of the institution itself rather than the individual king or ruler.

"The institution" IS its people. A Godly ruler cannot but obey the dictates of his Master, again as per Jesus' example.

Otherwise are you advocating that Christians rise up and overthrow the government with force?

Your question was already answered in post #110 above. That you would ask it again it indicates that you are not yet familiar with what is commanded by a Godly authority of a true Christian. This is where we must concentrate our efforts - to learn of him, to learn the way of the Master we would claim to love and follow.

This is not about some "overthrow;" rather, this is about not touching the unclean thing, about coming out and being separate. This is, in essence, part of the sanctification process.

Once again, we are not talking about the individuals. The individuals represent the institutions.

You are assuming a dichotomy that does not exist. Make your calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).

An "institution" of itself is an invention of men - a dead thing. Whereas my Master/Authority is alive. The only Lawful "institution" is God himself. Godly leaders are bound solely by the "institution" of God himself.

What is it that the kings or rulers are doing? They are applying the institutions like law and order or human rights.

Again, those "institutions" are inventions of men and have nothing in common with Godly authority. To which of the two are you rendering? Pilate himself said he didn't know what truth is! (John 18:38)

The verse I quoted above (Psa. 2) clearly tells us "the kings of the earth set themselves".

"Human rights" is of the world - another dead invention of unsaved men. You won't find it in scripture. The only "right" found in scripture is the believer's right to the tree of life. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (rev. 22:14)

Countenancing the world's "human rights" is countenancing Caesar, the usurper. His is a worldly protection racket based in vain deceit.

Because you cannot see the other option, you default to the worldly position. You are not alone; the majority has done likewise and is in a severe hurt locker as a result.

Leaders (Godly and ungodly) do sin. Paul says to pray for Godly leaders that they not fail their Godly responsibilities.

What replacement would be used if there was no Rule of Law?

The "replacement" is rather The Original that has been here from the beginning. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb. 13:8).

Compromising with temporal powers can never lead to redemption. For example, God's Law is not based on a popular vote. It never has been and never can be. Bondmen of Christ cannot vote because that would be violence or force. We are not into using force; you cannot force the Kingdom of God, you cannot force people to love, you cannot force your love on others, you cannot force people to be free, because that requires violence to enforce it. And "the weapons of our warfare are not carnal" (2 Corinthians 10:4).

In the Old Testament, the people "voted" to kill Joshua and Caleb (Numbers 14:10). Right after they voted, God said, "...How long will this people provoke me? ...I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them," (Numbers 14:11-12), but Moses asked for mercy and God pardoned their evil ways. In the New Testament, during the trial of Christ Jesus, Pontius Pilate let the people "vote" between Barabbas and Jesus as to who they wanted set free (Matthew 27:17). The Pharisees whispered lies in the people's ears so they would vote the way they wanted them to vote. And that's the same thing that's going on today with voting; it's all manipulated by those who have the power to sway people. This "voting privilege" crucified our Lord!

Another example is in 1 Samuel 8. God's people were ruled directly by God at this time, but the people "voted" to be ruled by a human king instead of God, just like the heathen nations (1 Samuel 8:4-5,20). Right after they "voted", "the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them" (1 Samuel 8:7). Israel was now a democracy, and their voting privilege kicked God out of their country.

How can Rule of Law be evil when it actually upholds the truth and justice?

It can't be anything but evil (while even a broken clock is right twice a day). It is evil because it knows not the truth. Again, Pilate himself asked, "What is truth?"

(I won't document the occult origin of the term "rule of law," as it would detract from the OP.)

...continued...

doctrox · May 24, 2026

If we speak the words of righteousness, those words will deliver us, because the ungodly "can do nothing against the truth" (2 Corinthians 13:8). If we speak the Truth at all times, the words of the Lord do deliver us. This doesn't mean they are not going to persecute you, but this is simply showing who you belong to. And it's very important at all times to witness to those who may come against you.

The only way you can "proclaim liberty to the captives" and open "the prison to them that are bound" (Isaiah 61:1) is by speaking the words of God to them. Only God knows what life and power really are; we don't, because he is the author of it. We can only partake of it when we are in him. You won't hear Christ ever saying, "I believe", and then go on with an opinion. Or saying, "The morality of this situation dictates this..." He never spoke like that. At every question that was put to him, he declared the Law, and wasted no words. This is how he was able to "slay" his enemies.

Hosea 6:5, "...I have slain them by the words of my mouth:"

Psalms 12:6, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

You can't take man's codes, rules, and regulations and shove them into a furnace and have them purified seven times - they'll burn up! They're so inconsistent with themselves. But God's Word is Truth, and even the ungodly recognize this.

John 7:46, "The officers answered, Never man spake like this man."

Even the ungodly recognized the words that Christ spoke. Words have power. God is the power, being the Word. Why not speak that word? Christ Jesus is "the King of kings, and Lord of lords" (1 Timothy 6:15, Revelation 17:14; 19:16), and:

Ecclesiastes 8:4, "Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?"

And using his words in our life is a shield in everything we do.

Proverbs 30:5, "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

Psalms 119:114, "Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word."

Scripture tells us to speak God's words and not the words of the world. But just what are we to speak? What are we to avoid speaking? How are we to answer others? Our Father tells us.

Proverbs 22:21, "I therefore teach thee truth, and knowledge good to hear; that thou mayest answer words of truth to them that question thee."

Colossians 4:6, "Let your speech be alway with grace, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

Ecclesiastes 10:12, "The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious: but the lips of a fool will swallow up himself."

1 Corinthians 2:6, "Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world..."

Psalms 37:30, "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom."

Proverbs 21:28, "...an obedient man will speak cautiously."

1 Thessalonians 2:4-5, "even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God... For neither at any time used we flattering words."

Ephesians 4:29, "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

1 Corinthians 15:33, "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."
Proverbs 26:4, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."

Proverbs 13:3, "He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction."

1 Corinthians 14:8-11, "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a foreigner, and he that speaketh shall be a foreigner unto me."

When you're dealing with the natural man (those who reject the Spirit of God), you identify yourself as being of the world when you speak the words of the world.

1 John 4:5, "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world."

You stamp their seal on your heart by using their words. They see what's on your heart by the words that come out of your mouth.

Matthew 15:18, "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."

But evenwithout this it is still aprinciple that aligns with Christian values.

To illustrate the fallacy of the "Christian values" argument, let's look at one "institution" of men. Most are unaware the "Constitution" forbids God. The Constitution was a rebellion against Christ and his authority over the nation, replacing it with the rule of man. The Bible warns us, "Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?" (Isaiah 2:22).

An objection is that the Constitution contains Christian principles and therefore is a sort of halfway covenant. As evidence of this, they may offer that the Constitution presents us with a system of divided authority and diffused powers. Even covenant-breaking historians would admit that Christian principles exist within the Constitution while denying that it is a Christian covenant (the word “God” does not appear in the “Constitution”). The problem with this is that every government that exists contains Christian principles. In fact, any truth or correct morality is a Christian principle. All true and good principles are Christian principles because this universe is created and governed by the true and living God who has revealed himself in the Bible. Islamic governments contain many Biblical principles, such as capital punishment. That does not, however, save them from condemnation as apostate covenants. We must return to the question, what sort of Christian principles constitute a Christian government and what make an apostate government? The Biblical covenant model is the Biblical model and therefore the only proper judge of whether or not a state is a covenant-keeping one.

Does God not give us free will to choose to believe and follow Him or not? That can only be done with the freedom to choose.

I answered this previously in post #117 above. Yes, man has freedom to choose, but that is not the same as Caesar's "freedom of religion" (as per the godless US Constitution). Again, man only has the "right" to worship Almighty God. To be free to worship any other God or to partake of any other religion is an abomination to him and violates the first two commandments. If you seek eternal life, then you know you are required to exercise your free will choice in God's direction and none another.

...political views...
How we live and what we choose to advocate and actively support crosses into the political whether we like it or not.

...and it should not be so! (No man can serve two masters.) You yourself said, "During Christs ministry and especially at His trial He never got into tit for tat politics" (post #113). Your dilemma brings us closer to the crux, which is that ppl, in ignorance of the Law, are giving obesiance to the wrong master and unflatteringly suffering for it. This is where your conflicted OP comes into play, as disobedience is where Satan hangs out and demonic forces rule.

Do you support the right to health care, for example?

Think about that for a moment. You are saying that you trust Caesar for your own personal health. You have given away your sovereignty in Christ for a bowl of worldly soup and bondage, in hopes of a healing.

When you apply for benefits from civil government, you are contracting with heathen. Not unlike sending your children to a likewise heathenistic school for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and yet wondering why they turn out like the heathen.

Every Caesarian benefit has Caesarian duties attached. "No man can serve two masters." In other words, Caesar says "if you look to us for your rights and privileges to do an act, we are your absolute master; you belong to us and you will do as we say." But God gives us everything we need, we don't need benefits and privileges from man. If you apply for benefits and privileges from the heathen government, you will be treated as a heathen.

Do you support law and order ?.

Yes, of course - God's Law and order.

...the choice...S... & G... Christ... Judas...
Never once forced them.

"Force" is Caesar's weapon; whereas love is God's weapon. It's but one way you can tell which purported "government" is the Lawful one.

Evil has been institutionalized, and the broad path folks have been deceived into dependency on that Caesarian nipple.

To the human ability God has given us to still choose not to worship God.

A non sequitur. Rather, when you become a believer, you have no true liberty outside of that which is of your Master. A true believer will not and does not want to worship any other.

"Free will" is not the gist of the OP. Rather, believers have allowed demonic forces to rule their lives (via civil idolatry/State worship) rather than Almighty God, even as we witness the horrendous debris of that reality. The question to ask oneself is, What do I do about it?

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Demonic forces.

doctrox

Well-Known Member

doctrox

Well-Known Member

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