Does Grace replace the law?

Eternally Grateful · May 26, 2026

Episkopos said:
Grace gives us the power to fulfill the law of God.

You can not fulfill the law.. The law requires perfection. Cursed is the one who does not oney every word.

Grace gives us power to be saved through him, and gives us power to grow in christ.

The law condemns.. It will never save

Lambano · May 26, 2026

Does Grace replace the law?

I don't think this is even the right question. The question sees Torah through the lens of Luther's struggles with his own guilty conscience back in the 16th century and with Catholic forgiveness rituals. Our Jewish cousins see Torah as a gift from God, describing their covenant obligations as God's people. In this view, Torah IS a gift of God's grace.

Lambano · May 26, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
Does Grace replace the commandments spoken by Jesus?

THIS is an interesting question in light of Protestant and Dispensational theology that renders Jesus's earthly teachings not only obsolete, but in some sense another form of "The Curse of Torah" that condemns rather than saves.

Behold · May 26, 2026

William Barton said:
1. God is the Creator.

Correct. and keep in mind that John 1:10 says that Jesus created the world., and that is true.
He did it as the preincarnate Word, according to John 1.
And as we research this in Colossians 1:16 we find the same reality, regarding Jesus.

William Barton said:
2. History is His Story.

Actually History is the "story" of those who are living in it.., creating it, minute by minute and moment by moment.

William Barton said:
3. We are all actors in a play.

Anytime a Hyper-Calvinist tries to prove lying "TULIP" with a Shakespearean quote, you know you are dealing with a theolgoical noob, as a best case scenerio.

William Barton said:
4. Free will is a human perception.

Your Hyper Calvinism is glowing in the dark again @William Barton .

Are you here again to try to prove that...????? same as all the other times??

- Remember this Readers............

"Christians lead people to Christ"........and Lying Calvinists only try to lead them to CALVINISM"

And @William Barton , feel free to quote my quote the next time you fell that "inner compulsion" to spread rancid Calvinism with your theological shovel all over another "Christian" forum.

See you there...

Behold · May 26, 2026

Episkopos said:
Grace gives us the power to fulfill the law of God.

The Law of God?

The Law of God??????????????????

SHEEEZZZZZZEEEEE.........

So, we see that you are here again making up more theology for the (never open a real bible) forum Kiddles to wonder about.... @Episkopos

Nothing new with you.

Episkopos said:
But under grace we walk as Jesus did...having victory over sin, the world, and the devil.

Well,
Thank you for nearly quoting me..

See, Ive stated for example on this Forum, this verse and comment at least 50 times in many posts and in some of my Threads... and also.. on some of your theologically twisted Threads...

= "Christ always gives me the Victory" over the world, the flesh, and the devil"..

And here you are paying my quote some hommage.. by nearly quoting me word for word.
Well, good for you.

But isn't it a unholy shame that you Have taught way too many times on This very Forum that : "The Cross is Not About Forgiveness".

"The CROSS is not about FORGIVENESS"......is what you have taught on this forum many many times..... @Episkopos

So in that case @Episkopos........how were you forgiven??????, now that you have STATED Publically over and over on this Forum, that "THE CROSS is NOT ABOUT Forgiveness..

I can't wait to hear what theological dysfunctional crazy nonsense you are going to have to come up with now to try to explain how you were forgiven your sin, when you have denied that Jesus on The Cross is your only forgiveness.

So, let your deceitful "religious commentary" now begin again..... @Episkopos

PS95 · May 26, 2026

Lambano said:
THIS is an interesting question in light of Reformed and Dispensational theology that renders Jesus's earthly teachings not only obsolete, but in some sense another form of "The Curse of Torah" that condemns rather than saves.

Hi Lambano-
This is new to me. Am I understanding this correctly? about Reformed and Dispensationalists..
In Matt 5 (and elsewhere- before the cross) where Jesus teaches us what was said, and expands them to what He is now Commanding regarding a mix a the 10 commandments, and I think 4 other Mosaic laws ( eye for eye, oaths, divorce cert, altar gifts) which were no part of the 10..
Where He clearly shows it's about our hearts which are wicked and that external actions reveal our wicked hearts- that we need the inside of the cup cleaned and not just the outward..? That LOVE and the Spirit is what we were missing?
That we desperately need to be born anew.. ? Am I mistaken to take what you're saying to mean that none of what Jesus said in Matt 5 applies to us now as in need of correction by the Spirit?
Can you explain that to me better? All Jesus taught us is obsolete.. because it condemns us (and yes- it sure did)-- but is all obsolete?
I'm confused. I never heard this before. Is that why some make a distinction between what Jesus "taught before the cross" as if what He taught has no bearing on our behavior now? Am I making sense?

Ronald Nolette · May 26, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
Does Grace replace the commandments spoken by Jesus?

There is a message many people love to hear today. It is called “the gospel of grace.” It sounds comforting, simple. It says God forgives, God accepts, and nothing more is required. But we must ask one honest question: is this the same message Jesus preached?

Jesus did preach grace. He showed mercy again and again. He welcomed sinners, ate with them, and called them near. But every time He gave grace, He also called for change, repentance from sin. When He met the woman caught in sin, He said,
“Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more.” (John 8:11, ASV)

Grace forgives, but it certainly does not leave a person in sin.
Now we must understand something deeper. Grace did not begin when we believed. Grace began with God.
God saw the world in sin, and He did not leave us there. In His mercy, He sent His Son so that we might live.
Jesus did not come for His own comfort. He came to save. He knew the suffering that was ahead, yet He still came.
In the garden, He said, “Not my will, but thine, be done.” (Luke 22:42, ASV)

This is grace in its purest form. Jesus gave His life for us. He suffered, He was rejected, and He died so that we could be brought back to God. This was not easy. This was not light. This was love that cost everything. So we can say this plainly: Jesus is grace made visible. But if grace cost Him everything, how can it mean nothing for us?
If He gave His life to free us from sin, how can we say we are free to remain in sin?
Grace is not permission. Grace is a rescue.

Look at another example. There was a tax collector named Zacchaeus. He was a dishonest man, taking more than he should. When Jesus came to him, He did not first give a long teaching. He simply came near to him. That is grace. But what happened next?
In Luke 19:8 (ASV), Zacchaeus says: “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have wrongfully exacted aught of any man, I restore fourfold.” Grace touched his heart, and his life changed immediately. He did not say, “I believe,” and continue cheating people. He turned from his sin.
And Jesus answered, “Today is salvation come to this house.” (Luke 19:9, ASV)

Salvation came where there was both faith and a changed life. A man once came to Jesus asking about eternal life. Jesus did not say, “Just believe and you are done.” He said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) These are His own words!

Grace does not remove obedience. It leads into it.

Jesus also gave a warning that many ignore.
In Matthew 7:21 (ASV):
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father.”
These are people who speak His name, but do not follow His ways.

And He asks in Luke 6:46 (ASV): “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

This question reveals the truth. Words are not enough. Faith must be lived.
Jesus made it simple with a picture.

Two men built houses. One on rock, one on sand. Both heard His words. But only one obeyed.
The one who obeyed stood firm. The one who did not fell. So the difference is not hearing. It is doing.

Think again about what many say today.

They say grace means no obedience. They say nothing is required. They say a changed life is not necessary.

But if that were true, why did Jesus call people to repent? Why did He command obedience? Why did He warn of judgment?
The truth is clear. Grace calls you out of sin, not into comfort with sin.

Think of it this way. A man is drowning, and someone jumps into the water to save him, at great cost. That is grace.
But once he is pulled out, will he jump back in and say, “I am safe no matter what”? No. If he understands what was done for him, he will stay out of the water.

Jesus did not suffer so we could stay the same.He suffered so we could be changed and have a changed heart. So what is the truth?

Grace begins with God’s love.
Grace is seen in Jesus giving His life.
Grace forgives.
Grace calls.
Grace transforms.

Faith is not just words. It is a life that follows Him. As He said,
“If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15, ASV)

Do not accept a weak or incomplete message that leaves you unchanged. Do not hold to a grace that asks nothing from you.
Come to the grace that Jesus gives. The grace that lifts you, cleans you, and leads you into a new life.

Turn from sin. Walk in His ways. Follow Him with your whole life. This is the grace that leads to life.

Peace be with you all.

Yes it does! Grace causes a person to seek to obey God for it transforms a life.

The law was a temporary measure as Paul said in Galatians till faith came. The law was designed to show that man cannot earn righteous standing before God.

Angelina · May 26, 2026

Behold said:
Sin existed before there was any Law given by Moses........as "sin was in the world" when Adam and Eve were in the world, but until they rebelled against God's word, then sin was not imputed to them, not charged to them.
And now, 2000 yrs since Jesus shed His Blood to forgive our sins and keep us forgiven, the born again are "not under the law but under Grace" and "where there is no Law, there is no Transgression (sin)". found.
= This is why God does not charge sin against a CHRISTian........and that is because He has already JUDGED HIS SON for our SINS< 2000 yrs ago.
This is why Romans 4:8 and 2 Corin 5:19 says that God does not charge sin against a Christian.....as He can't now that He has charged our sins against His SON, who has died for them ALL on THE CROSS.

Welcome to : Salvation........its a "GiFT" of Righteousness and eternal forgivenes of SIN.

This is : Christianity 101, and yet most Christians do not understand what Jesus has accomplished for them, 2000 yrs ago by shedding His blood and dying for their SIN.

There is even a member here......."Episkopos" who teaches that "The Cross is not about forgiveness of Sin".

So, we see that a "christian forum' is often just a hidaway that allows the worst of the worst type of Religious Heretic to "park and preach" whatever God offending and Christ denying "theology" they want to present.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reader,
its interesting that worldwide, you find baby christians, who cannot understand what Jesus has accomplished on The Cross for them, as they are still trying to confess what Jesus has already SOLVED for them, 2000 yrs ago.

Now....When a person is born again, they are now found = "not under the Law but under Grace".
This means that "God hath made JESUS to be sin for us", and "Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for sin".

So because Jesus has become those for us, and because "Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the law".. then for the believer this "sin issue" is settled by The Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

So, the issuse is not sin, .. the issue is religious people who do not understand The Cross of Christ that is the eternal Blood Atonement, who want to teach about sin and law, totally lost within their deception.
Thats the issue on Forums like this one, and on most of the others as well, as this lack of knowledge is a dividing line between the Legalists who want to speak about SIN and LAW , vs, the enlightened believers who understand Grace and "imputed righteousness".

Listen,
, if a person still has sin, then Jesus has not become it for them yet,"""""God hath made Jesus to be SIN FOR US">.. has not died for theirs yet...., = has not been Judged for theirs yet, which redeemes them from it for ETERNITY.
See.... = There is no SIN FOUND In CHRIST, and every born again believer is "IN CHRIST".

Understand?

And until all believers understand this basic principle of the Blood Atonement, then the constant ignorant arguing about "who is a sinner" and "OSAS" and "law and commandments" : is going to continue to waste people's time on "christian forums" like this one.
Understand, that if a person has sin, then JESUS has not been sacrified for it yet, ...and that fact would mean that they are not really saved yet.

Do you understand this @Angelina ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, "where there is no law, there is no sin".... and the born again are "NOT UNDER THE LAW"... "but under Grace'.

This means that the born again exist in the KOG, "in Christ"... as "one with God".....and you can't exist like that unless you are SINLESS, as there is no sin found in Christ or IN God and the born again are =- "IN CHRIST" and = 'ONE WITH GOD", and there is NO SIN FOUND THERE, where the born again EXIST.

Do you understand @Angelina ?

The born again EXIST "seated in Heavenly places", and there is no SIN found there.

Do you understand @Angelina ?

Hi @Behold,
I agree with you that Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient, complete, and eternally effective for all who truly belong to Him. I also agree that believers are justified by faith apart from the works of the Mosaic Law.

But I believe several statements you are making go beyond Scripture and begin collapsing important biblical distinctions.

For example, you repeatedly say:
“where there is no law, there is no sin.”

But Romans 4:15 does not say that.
It says: “where there is no law, neither is there transgression.”

Paul is speaking about the violation of codified law, not the nonexistence of sin itself.

The New Testament still defines many things as sin for believers after the cross:

1. Sexual immorality, 2. greed, 3. drunkenness, 4. idolatry, 5. hatred, 6. adultery, 7. covetousness.

So clearly sin still exists as a moral reality even though believers are no longer under the Mosaic covenant for justification.

You also said: “If a person still has sin, then Jesus has not become it for them yet.”

But the apostles never spoke that way to believers. John writes to believers: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.”
(1 John 1:8)

And then immediately says: “If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
(1 John 2:1)

Notice John does not conclude: “If a believer sins, they were never saved.”

Instead he points them to Christ as Advocate while still calling them away from sin.

Likewise, James writes to believers extensively about sins among Christians: partiality, jealousy, bitter envy, careless speech, worldliness, quarrels, pride.

Paul rebuked the Corinthian believers for divisions, immorality, carnality, and misuse of spiritual gifts, yet still addressed them as brethren and saints.

So the apostles clearly recognized that genuine believers can still sin, even seriously, though they are not to live in unrepentant rebellion.

You are correct that believers are “in Christ.”

But being “in Christ” does not erase all New Testament warnings directed to Christians themselves.

Paul warned believers, "Grieve not the Holy Spirit.” (Ephesians 4:30)

“Quench not the Spirit.”(1 Thessalonians 5:19)

“Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12)

Those warnings have meaning.

You also said: “Our behavior has no effect on our salvation.”

That statement needs qualification because Scripture does connect conduct with the evidence of genuine faith.

Not as the basis of justification but as the fruit of regeneration.

Jesus said: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:20)

And Hebrews says: “Follow after… the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord.”
(Hebrews 12:14)

The apostles never taught salvation by works. But they absolutely taught that a transformed life accompanies saving faith.

Regarding your repeated challenge about “license to sin,” I never claimed there are mainstream teachers openly saying:
“Go sin freely.”

That is not the point.

The concern is when teachings unintentionally minimize the seriousness of ongoing sin by speaking as though sin has no covenant relevance whatsoever for believers because “there is no law.”

The apostles never used grace to weaken the call to holiness. Titus 2:11–12 says grace teaches us: “denying ungodliness and worldly lusts.”

Romans 6 does not merely say believers are forgiven. It says: “How shall we, that died to sin, live any longer therein?”

That is why many believers raise concerns when grace language begins sounding detached from repentance, sanctification, obedience, and perseverance.

Finally, I fully agree that salvation is God’s work from beginning to end.

Christ finished the atoning work completely. Believers are justified freely by grace. No one earns salvation by law-keeping.

But the New Testament balance is not: “Sin no longer matters because believers are not under law.”

The balance is:
Believers are justified apart from the Law and are now called to walk by the Spirit in holiness, love, and obedience to Christ.

That is the consistent teaching of the apostles. :cold:

Lambano · May 27, 2026

PS95 said:
I'm confused. I never heard this before. Is that why some make a distinction between what Jesus "taught before the cross" as if what He taught has no bearing on our behavior now? Am I making sense?

Hi, PS95. I hope it was clear that I do not advocate such a position myself; I see it as another form of the Marcionite heresy. But keep your eyes open. Watch. See who holds to a position that only Paul's teaching is normative for the church today. See who only ascribes to Jesus the role of "atoning sacrifice". See who says that the only purpose of the Sermon on the Mount (the Matt 5 teaching you alluded to) is to define what "Sin" looks like in order to show that we cannot keep Torah and need a savior.

Lambano · May 27, 2026

PS95 said:
Am I mistaken to take what you're saying to mean that none of what Jesus said in Matt 5 applies to us now as in need of correction by the Spirit?

What I'm keeping my eyes peeled for is to see how the aforementioned Spirit works in people's lives. Will it look like Matt 5 (and 6)? Will I recognize it when I see it?

Justified · May 27, 2026

Lambano said:
Hi, PS95. I hope it was clear that I do not advocate such a position myself; I see it as another form of the Marcionite heresy. But keep your eyes open. Watch. See who holds to a position that only Paul's teaching is normative for the church today. See who only ascribes to Jesus the role of "atoning sacrifice". See who says that the only purpose of the Sermon on the Mount (the Matt 5 teaching you alluded to) is to define what "Sin" looks like in order to show that we cannot keep Torah and need a savior.

That has nothing to do with Reformed theology.

Lambano · May 27, 2026

Justified said:
That has nothing to do with Reformed theology.

I'm using "Reformed" in the sense of "Protestant Reformation theology", i.e. salvation by grace through faith, not specifically the ~~heresies~~ theology of John Calvin. These ain't Catholics who have this "obeying Christ is attempting to be justified by works" mindset.

And then the Dispensationalist Protestants put their "everything Jesus taught was taught to Jews in the 'Dispensation of Law'" spin on it. If you have the inclination to obey Christ, you need to observe all of Torah perfectly (and give all your possessions to the poor), because the Atonement only applies to the "Dispensation of Grace" taught by Paul.

Justified · May 27, 2026

Lambano said:
I'm using "Reformed" in the sense of "Protestant Reformation theology", not the ~~heresies~~ theology of John Calvin.

That is what Reformed theology means and how I am using it. Your statement, ‘in light of Reformed . . . theology that renders Jesus's earthly teachings not only obsolete, but in some sense another form of "The Curse of Torah" that condemns rather than saves,’ still has nothing to do with Reformed theology.

Calvin’s teachings are included in Reformed theology, but form only a part of it, as he was one of a number of Reformation theologians.

Lambano · May 27, 2026

Justified said:
still has nothing to do with Reformed theology.

The "faith versus works" dichotomy has EVERYTHING to do with Reformation theology.

Justified · May 27, 2026

Lambano said:
The "faith versus works" dichotomy has EVERYTHING to do with Reformation theology.

Of course it does, I haven’t said otherwise. Again, your statement, ‘in light of Reformed . . . theology that renders Jesus's earthly teachings not only obsolete, but in some sense another form of "The Curse of Torah" that condemns rather than saves,’ has nothing to do with Reformed theology.

ProDeo · May 27, 2026

Behold said:
So because Jesus has become those for us, and because "Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the law".. then for the believer this "sin issue" is settled by The Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

So, the issuse is not sin, .. the issue is religious people who do not understand The Cross of Christ that is the eternal Blood Atonement, who want to teach about sin and law, totally lost within their deception.
Thats the issue on Forums like this one, and on most of the others as well, as this lack of knowledge is a dividing line between the Legalists who want to speak about SIN and LAW , vs, the enlightened believers who understand Grace and "imputed righteousness".

Just for the record @Behold, when you sin do you still ask for forgiveness or is that no longer needed once being born gain ?

Lambano · May 27, 2026

Justified said:
Of course it does, I haven’t said otherwise. Again, your statement, ‘in light of Reformed . . . theology that renders Jesus's earthly teachings not only obsolete, but in some sense another form of "The Curse of Torah" that condemns rather than saves,’ has nothing to do with Reformed theology.

Really? You haven't seen Protestants claim that attempting to obey Jesus's earthly commands is the same as attempting to be justified by works? You haven't seen Protestants claim that Jesus's extension of the commandments against Adultery and Murder to include sins of the heart such as Lust and Hatred should be interpreted as reinforcing the inability of Man to obey Torah, and thus need not be obeyed at all?

I've been doing the forum thing for more than 20 years. Somewhere in my files, I kept a rather scathing rebuke from a brother (long since gone on to glory) back in 2003 taking this position. I've seen variations on multiple forums, including this one. All in the name of "Man is not justified by works of the Law".

Just keep your eyes open. Just watch.

PS95 · May 27, 2026

Lambano said:
Hi, PS95. I hope it was clear that I do not advocate such a position myself; I see it as another form of the Marcionite heresy. But keep your eyes open. Watch. See who holds to a position that only Paul's teaching is normative for the church today. See who only ascribes to Jesus the role of "atoning sacrifice". See who says that the only purpose of the Sermon on the Mount (the Matt 5 teaching you alluded to) is to define what "Sin" looks like in order to show that we cannot keep Torah and need a savior.

Yes, I know you aren't an advocate of that, brother.
What I have seen on here in just short of 2 years is just crazy. I agree about Marcionites- I also see portions of gnostic beliefs in many groups. It's a gangrene.
I think that Angelina spelled it out pretty well. I do see the "Paul only" who cherry pick Paul -and then the other extreme who dislike Paul and want to put us under legalism. -- the 2 gospel people are very confused- and very argumentative.

I don't pretend to understand every single detail perfectly, as I see it the bible leaves us with some questions. Those I wish we could just admit that we don't know for sure- but it seems pride gets in the way. Pride prevents unity. The old saying the devil is in the details.. ha. What is clear is pretty simple!
Jesus is our Savior- the very Son of God, who came down from heaven to save us- trust in Him alone for salvation and obey what He taught! It's ok if you mess up- we all do- confess it- He forgives. Love one another and keep your eyes on Jesus - walk by the Spirit not the flesh!

It's clear that Jesus' teachings in Matt 5 and 6 are reiterated throughout the scriptures in the epistles of the apostles! That's not even debatable.
I can't comprehend how they come up with this stuff other than cherry picking.- which causes so many problems!
The words, "works" and "commandments" get twisted. Sadly, These people don't distinguish between works of the law- and good works of love. They just see it as works to try to earn something. It's a shame.
We love Him and want to obey Him- He's right and we see that now!

Then the legalist view of the word, "commandments"- they see that as the 10 when it is not. If you say that- you get- "oh so now its ok to murder"? They forgot love..
Or go to church on Saturday or else!- ---you can do that if you like but be sure you are truly resting in Christ- His rest from your works of the law to earn any favor.. His law is written on our hearts.
I honestly think it boils down to those 2 words that scare them.
Hope that made sense. I had a 100 distractions!

PS95 · May 27, 2026

Lambano said:
Really? You haven't seen Protestants claim that attempting to obey Jesus's earthly commands is the same as attempting to be justified by works? You haven't seen Protestants claim that Jesus's extension of the commandments against Adultery and Murder to include sins of the heart such as Lust and Hatred should be interpreted as reinforcing the inability of Man to obey Torah, and thus need not be obeyed at all?

I've been doing the forum thing for more than 20 years. Somewhere in my files, I kept a rather scathing rebuke from a brother (long since gone on to glory) back in 2003 taking this position. I've seen variations on multiple forums, including this one. All in the name of "Man is not justified by works of the Law".

Just keep your eyes open. Just watch.

I've seen it! But unless I'm missing something- it's not all protestants. There are those who teach obedience/Lordship like John MacArthur- who I do not agree with on everything.- but he did teach Lordship and godly living.

faithhopecharity · May 27, 2026

William Barton said:
Grace = unmerited favor.

grace is also the life of God in us!

Jn 1:16-17 His life (fullness)
Jn 10:10 life more abundantly refers to grace not eternal salvation, you can't have eternal salvation and eternal salvation more abundantly
Jn 14:6 Christ is the life
eph 2:1 & 2:5 quickend or brought to life in Christ

1) we do not have eternal salvation

Mk 10:30 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 rev 2:10

2) we have the grace of justification

3) grace can be increased by good works

mt 7:7 mt 7:14 mt 26:41
2 pet 3:18

4) grace can be lost by deadly sin

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1

Amen?

Does Grace replace the law?

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Does Grace replace the law?