It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak. - Romans 14:21
It's important to remember that causing someone to stumble is a serious offense—not just against the law of love, but also against what the Lord teaches us in Matthew 18:6. We have a responsibility to help each other grow, not to trip one another up or keep someone from joining our community of faith.
So, while having knowledge might make us feel free to act without restrictions, it’s love that needs to guide us first. Love is like a gentle yet firm reminder that we should wholeheartedly love the Lord and treat our neighbors as we would want to be treated ourselves. In the end, it’s love—not just knowledge or the idea of freedom—that should guide our decisions and actions.
Hey Berean- Oh- I agree with you. What a difficult subject this is to actually deal with tho. I'm glad you brought it up. It is not so hard with other believers but with
certain groups it is very hard to accomplish.
Clearly, though when something is being made a requirement for Christians from Mosaic law- Paul did not pull any punches with those teaching circumcism as necessary. "go mutilate themselves... "
When it gets difficult for me- is when the person with the "rule" pushes it onto us as a requirement for salvation, or suggests that you are disobedient, or don't love the Lord if you don't do what they do. Or they call it the mark of the beast..
Paul said not to judge - and no stumblings- I agree-
but were they Jewish Christians who were still wanting to keep some of their old law or were they Gentiles wanting to be Jewish? I seem to think the former, but it doesn't say. I don't think they were putting food or days as
a sin , otherwise Paul would have spoken about them as he did to the circumcism who tried to put that onto Gentiles. Agree? I can only surmise.
For instance- I was talking to an SDA member who was very nice and she was trying to convert us- that was obvious enough- I was ok with that and just kept her in discussion.
Then she brought up meat eating and how she is vegan-she started giving me smoothie recipes.. I took no offense as that I see food as up to an individual, but she stated that some people in her church "
do eat chicken sometimes"-
Clearly, this was a big deal to her. I asked her if that bothered her- she said NOOOO, but that she is healthier because she doesn't, and she was bringing up how SDAs have better health due to
Ellen's messages on diet. it was clear that it did bother her that this other person wasn't obeying Ellen..she is their prophet after all. So eating meat stumbled her- ok-
If we had shared a meal together -I would only have eaten vegetables not to upset her.
But I could never join that church. I would have to lie and say I never eat meat or I would stumble them? They seem to bring diet up often in person.
And they take it to another level with keeping that some foods are still
unclean. What we eat should be optional for all Christians but they disagree strongly to say these foods are UNCLEAN.
So, now we have Mosaic law being taught. I find it hard to try to reason with them. Jesus taught that nothing we eat can defile us. And he made all foods clean.
Paul was adamant about not making circumcism a requirement for Christians. He had some very choice words for them.
I see this unclean meats thing as similar. If they say they are unclean- clearly it's mandatory.
I'm not sure how to react to that. Do we show them why they are wrong? They have seen the verses- and twist them.
So what do we do? I tried not to offend over food, but I did try to show why that is in error. What worries me isn't the food- it's the spirit behind what they are teaching. I worry for them because clearly it causes them to judge us. It clearly does- since they say they are the only true church--
Then we get to the sabbath- I have zero problem with Saturday services- but to say if you go another day is mark of the beast now puts them on a whole other level.
So while I can still love SDA members I am best to avoid them in fellowship. That stinks -but I see no other way.
You know as well as I do that anyone can misread scripture and make it mean what it does not. We could say that transfusions "stumble" jws. --and they do because man has lied to them and they do not understand mercy.
So how do we deal with that? People die over this false teaching. Did you know they recently changed it again? That change made it 100% clear as a bell that the leaders do KNOW it's a false teaching- and yet are still causing the deaths of member by not stating whole truth about it. They had new blood cards made up
20 yrs ago with this latest teaching but told the elders to not to distribute them and to destroy them.
Seems it's so they don't cause them to all just jump ship in shock at the changes- so they drip it slowly. Thing is innocent will still people die. They don't care. It's a death cult.
My jw relative said
-"so what, they will be resurrected!" - as if this life doesn't matter at all-
Jws- during covid were all masked up for 2 years, with no meetings in person for over 2 years- with boosters galore-or else lose privileges-- yet this life doesn't matter to them?-
We can only lovingly try to show them why they are mistaken but you know as well as I do that once they see you disagree with their leaders- that's it. Now that they wont talk to you how can we help them?
I tried many years ago when my dad (jw) was alive to show him the hypocrisy with regard to blood fractions and donations etc and he did see it.. BUt he dug in his heels and instead of saying- "oh my that is hypocrisy- those men are wrong".. he said- he will never take a fraction either. I felt horrible. I could have been responsible for his early death. Do you see the dilemma?
A Christian church--
I was good friend's with a pastors wife years ago- she was raised in an independent fundamentalist Baptist church where women could not wear pants- etc.. the pastor took great offense at the thought. She said she knew better, but she never wore anything but skirts to church all of her life not to stumble the pastor. I loved that. - She showed respect and love over something trivial.
But when she married- and her husband pastored another church her husband was opposed to modern Christian music and only allowed hymns- no guitars etc. in the services. He was also raised in the same type of church that she attended.
Most of the members were ok with that since it stumbled him and not to make a big deal of it even tho they disagreed.
But there was a group who
adamantly fought him wanted change. He pressed back but they kept at him.
It actually ended up- they hired a new pastor and fired this pastor over music style.
I was horrified at this.. He and his wife had 3 young kids and she was pregnant with no 4. The tiny house they lived in next to church was now taken from them. She was so upset she could barely eat and was losing weight. They had nowhere to go.
This stumbled me big time. I left when the pastor did and never looked back.
Fortunately- he was hired at a Christian camp about an hour away and they had a place to go.-
I never forgot the lack of love that I saw there. Very wounding.
So there are different types of stumblings as I see it. Christians can deal with most of them, but
some groups make it impossible to fellowship with them. Although they may come on here it's very sad to me that they think they are the true church and must covert you because you are sinning and it is over blatant error...
Paul didn't address this stuff. What do you think- yes- love- is required of us. But it gets mighty sticky and backfires with some groups.
I can't see me joining a group in order to win their approval so I can begin to deconstruct them.. There is a lot more than their stumblings going on. Know what I mean? I hope this makes some sense to you...
