Why did Jesus pray to himself?

Justified · Sunday at 4:58 PM

MatthewG said:
I’m not really focused on debating the Trinity, brother.

I’m just trying to follow what Jesus taught: “Worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father seeks such people to worship Him” (John 4:23). That’s what matters to me.

Yes, "in truth" matters. Worshipping in truth includes worshipping the Father, through Christ, as the one whom he declares himself to be. So, to worship in truth includes worshipping Jesus because he is also God.

MatthewG said:
God is love. It's not if. The bible clearly states God is love.

Yes, I know. That is my point. I was using a logical argument, a conditional statement, to show that because God is love, it necessarily follows (it is the case) that God is more than one "person."

MatthewG · Sunday at 5:03 PM

Justified said:
Yes, "in truth" matters. Worshipping in truth includes worshipping the Father, through Christ, as the one whom he declares himself to be. So, to worship in truth includes worshipping Jesus because he is also God.

Yes, I know. That is my point. I was using a logical argument, a conditional statement, to show that because God is love, it necessarily follows (it is the case) that God is more than one "person."

ok

Grailhunter · Sunday at 5:41 PM

Justified said:
What copout? I know I'm not proving you wrong; at this point I have only claimed that you're wrong. Would you like me to prove it?

We can look at the doctrine of the Trinity and why what you have stated doesn't go against it. We can also look at what the Bible states about how many Gods there are, to see that there is only one.

You can say that, but you still have to provide evidence.

Now that is a copout.

I did the same thing you did.

Wrangler · Sunday at 5:43 PM

PS95 said:
as far as I can see it is very similar to what the trinity creed says but not quite.

I’m glad you see that’s it’s not quite. How do you reconcile the trinity creed with for us, there is one God, the Father?

PS95 said:
IMHO we should never try to fit God into a box.

Does that include the trinity box?

GRACE ambassador · Sunday at 6:32 PM

Why did Jesus pray to Himself?:

He did not; He Prayed To His Father!:

163 Bible Reasons Jesus Is Almighty God!

-----------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

Wrangler · Sunday at 7:13 PM

GRACE ambassador said:
He did not; He Prayed To His Father!:

163 Bible Reasons Jesus Is Almighty God!

The ’reason‘ is in place of an actual teaching of Scripture, which is only God the Father. Every epistle teaches this. No Scripture teaches God the Son or God the HS and the reason is obvious.

Grailhunter · Sunday at 7:31 PM

GRACE ambassador said:
Why did Jesus pray to Himself?:

He did not; He Prayed To His Father!:

163 Bible Reasons Jesus Is Almighty God!

-----------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

It is like living back in the Ecumenical Councils......
They say history repeats itself.....
Yeshua is God Almighty.....
Yahweh is God Almighty......
The Holy Spirit is not a God, it is the holy spirit of Yahweh.....
There are 2 Gods and Yahweh's holy spirit.....
No the Holy Spirit is the third God.....
There are 3 Gods......
There is 1 God.....
God the Father is senior to God the Son.....
No God the Father gave all authority to God the Son so God the Son is senior....
God the Father and God the Son are of the same nature.....
No they have different natures......
Yeshua was human that is why He died on the cross and then became a God......
No Yeshua was born a God in the form of a man....
Yahweh said He was the only God in the Old Testament and there was no one like Him.....
Yahweh was wrong, Yeshua was a God in the Old Testament....
So many beliefs to sort through.

Hillsage · Sunday at 9:23 PM

PS95 said:
Hello GH-
I know that since you went to college you have changed your mind on several things. Tell me though - when you read these verses below, how do you reconcile them honestly? They mainly address who the Spirit is- as far as I can see it is very similar to what the trinity creed says but not quite. I don't pretend to have all of the answers to God's makeup. But 3 gods is a bit of a stretch. There is a oneness that can not be denied and it is not just in "agreement or purpose" IF we believe what is written. With an open mind--See what you think-? IMHO we should never try to fit God into a box.

@PS95 I keep checking here, on occasion. :Broadly:

But I would like a shot at all your 'takes' on the 8 verses you've presented to GH. But not, all of them, in one post. I have different problems with different 'people and verses', just like you have been having. :pfite:

In this post I need to first elaborate as to how I also have a problem with when/how theologians capitalize words like lord and holy and spirit and christ. So, when I quote a verse and place a lower and upper case lL hH sS cC at the front of the word, it will be because I disagree with their use of capitals, and will bold the word, as I believe it should be for MY OPINION here.

PS95 said:
----
2 Cor 3:15-18
15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Heb 12:9 "....God is the FATHER of ALL spirits...." and the Holy Spirit births them ALL....good, bad, man, animal.

The Greek word for "christ" is 55497 christos which 'literally' defined means "anointed". Jesus was born with AN "anointed" human spirit which was holy (or sinless). That spirit was IN Him and that same holy/sinless spirit is IN US after our human birthed spirit is anointed/smeared. But it is not The Holy Spirit of God. It is a human spirit which was 'born OF/FROM The Holy Spirit of God. And it is subsequently A holy spirit after The Holy Spirit of God has smeared/anointed it, to be like the anointed spirit The Holy Spirit birthed Jesus with.

vs 16 "The veil" isn't lifted SO we'll turn to the Lord, but AFTER. God will not lift "the veil" from our minds prematurely to see truth before we're even ready or able to walk in it...eg obey. The Lord taught parables to hide the truth from those not ready to embrace IT, and yet, at the same time the parable revealed truth to those who were ready.

vs 18 The same "the lord" or 'lordship anointing', led "the spirit" in Jesus, to walk NOT after His sinful natured "Word became flesh" body. (Rom. 8:9) This leading transformed the FLESH/body of Jesus to manifest the glory or light of glory of the ONE triune God which were 'the father, the word, and the holy spirit. Three which are triunely defined as 3 individual ones, making up one GOD. A GOD who is now the spirit Father and the FLESH word and the HOLY spirit. IOW 2/3 spirit 1/3 flesh. FLESH with 'a holy anointed spirit' from GOD.

COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Cchrist IN you, the hope of glory: (the 'anointed spirit' leading in triune you)

2CO 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed (transformed/metamorphosed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Llord (lordship)who is the Sspirit (the anointed/christos spirit).

I am a triune being. Without a body I am not a HUMAN being. Without a functioning brain/soul I am a HUMAN been. Without a spirit I am a dead man. In hades my soul sleeps and my body returns to dust (unless embalmed hmmm?). But our (mankind's unsaved) eternal 'human spirit' or (our) (mankind's) born again (from GOD) holy spirits, ALL return to GOD from whence THEY (saved or unsaved spirits )came.

HEB 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall WE not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

A "WE" verse which can only be referring to those with a holy anointed/smeared spirit which was anointed/smeared BY The Holy Spirit of God REbirthing you into His Kingdom.

I'll stop with these two verses @PS95. And in all honesty, I don't have the interest or time to deal with anyone but you. I hope we can dialogue, but I know my 77 year old theological opinion, is out there.

All EDITS are in BLUE above

NEXT VERSES TO COME?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??

PS95 said:
-----
Romans 8
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
-------------

PS95 said:
1 Cor 3:16
16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
--------------
Gal 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
----------------

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
--------------------
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
----------
John 14:16
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
-----------------------
1 Cor 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
---------------
If we accept all that scripture says- the Spirit of God is God and His Son and yet another helper-- who comes to live in us.
If that definable? Not really but the trinity is very close. It's hard to define God.

Monday EDIT above at 11:30 CST are BLUE

Grailhunter · Sunday at 9:33 PM

Hillsage said:
@PS95 I keep checking here, on occasion. But I would like a shot at all your 'takes' on the 8 verses you've presented to GH. But not, all of them, in one post. I have different problems with different 'people and verses', just like you have been having. In this post I need to first elaborate as to how I also have a problem with when/how theologians capitalize words like lord and holy and spirit and christ. So, when I quote a verse and place a lower and upper case lL hH sS cC at the front of the word, it will be because I disagree with their use of capitals, and will bold the word, as I believe it should be for MY OPINION here.

Heb 12:9 "....God is the FATHER of ALL spirits...." and the Holy Spirit births them ALL....good, bad, man, animal.

The Greek word for "christ" is 55497 christos which 'literally' defined means "anointed". Jesus was born with AN "anointed" human spirit which was holy (or sinless). That spirit was IN Him and that same holy/sinless spirit is IN US after our human birthed spirit is anointed/smeared. But it is not The Holy Spirit of God. It is a human spirit which was 'born OF/FROM The Holy Spirit of God. And it is subsequently A holy spirit after The Holy Spirit of God has smeared/anointed it, to be like the anointed spirit The Holy Spirit birthed Jesus with.

vs 16 "The veil" isn't lifted SO we'll turn to the Lord, but AFTER. God will not lift "the veil" from our minds prematurely to see truth before we're even ready or able to walk in it...eg obey. The Lord taught parables to hide the truth from those not ready to embrace IT, and yet, at the same time the parable revealed truth to those who were ready.

vs 18 The same "the lord" or 'lordship anointing', led "the spirit" in Jesus, to walk NOT after His sinful natured "Word became flesh" body. (Rom. 8:9) This leading transformed the FLESH/body of Jesus to manifest the glory or light of glory of the ONE triune God which were 'the father, the word, and the holy spirit. Three which are triunely defined as 3 individual ones, making up one GOD. A GOD who is now the spirit Father and the FLESH word and the HOLY spirit. IOW 2/3 spirit 1/3 flesh. FLESH with 'a holy anointed spirit' from GOD.

COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Cchrist IN you, the hope of glory: (the 'anointed spirit' leading in triune you)

2CO 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed (transformed/metamorphosed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Llord (lordship)who is the Sspirit (the anointed/christos spirit).

I am a triune being. Without a body I am not a HUMAN being. Without a functioning brain/soul I am a HUMAN been. Without a spirit I am a dead man. In hades my soul sleeps and my body returns to dust (unless embalmed hmmm?). But my eternal human spirit or my born again from GOD spirit, returns to GOD from whence IT/THEY came.

HEB 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall WE not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

A "WE" verse which can only be referring to those with a holy anointed/smeared spirit which was anointed/smeared BY The Holy Spirit of God REbirthing you into His Kingdom.

I'll stop with these two verses @PS95. And in all honesty, I don't have the interest or time to deal with anyone but you. I hope we can dialogue, but I know my 77 year old theological opinion, is out there.

NEXT VERSES TO COME?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??

Exactly what do you think these verses mean?

Jack · Sunday at 10:11 PM

MatthewG said:
God has male and female traits he made man and woman in his own image.

Then why are Father, Son and Holy Spirit called HE in the Bible? NEVER She! lol

Jack · Sunday at 10:15 PM

MatthewG said:
Nothing about God is three in one.

Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

"Name" is SINGULAR (ONE). Now you know.

PS95 · Sunday at 11:14 PM

Wrangler said:
I’m glad you see that’s it’s not quite. How do you reconcile the trinity creed with for us, there is one God, the Father?

Hi Wrangler- Did someone ring that anti trin bell in your ear again? Look- I tend to avoid these drawn out anti trin threads- I have heard this stuff all of my life. It never ends- goes in circles and the attitudes get nasty- I dont think God approves. It hurts my heart to see people fighting over God. People see what they will see. I suppose it's what God allows them to see by the Spirit. So why fight over it?
BUT ok- TO your Q- Let's look at that snippet in it's context together, ok?

yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. 1 Cor 8:6

If I were to read that as you do--- only one can be God the Father, so the Son can't be God..
Then I must carry that same line of reasoning used in the first part of the verse to the next part, which would mean since only one can be Lord Jesus so, the Father can not be Lord. --We both know that is false.--
Jesus called the Father, Lord ,and also God and also Father.
and in Revelation 11:15 we read-

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

Lord and God are used interchangeably throughout scripture. The Son is called God and the Father is called Lord. This is the the true God and Lord vs the many false ones.
Most times when I speak of the Father I use , God- and when speaking of the Son, I use Lord. Many people don't and it can cause confusion.
It is intellectually dishonest to read that verse any other way.

Wrangler said:
Does that include the trinity box?

I'm not sure why you would say that. Why are you always so rude? You can't wait to argue with Christians but how about you tell us what you believe- aside from Jesus being a liar- Who do you say He is?

Just a man like you?
Or perhaps like "perfect" ?- Adam?
Pre-existence?
angel?
creature?
Now is your chance..

PS95 · Sunday at 11:18 PM

Hillsage said:
@PS95 I keep checking here, on occasion. But I would like a shot at all your 'takes' on the 8 verses you've presented to GH. But not, all of them, in one post. I have different problems with different 'people and verses', just like you have been having. In this post I need to first elaborate as to how I also have a problem with when/how theologians capitalize words like lord and holy and spirit and christ. So, when I quote a verse and place a lower and upper case lL hH sS cC at the front of the word, it will be because I disagree with their use of capitals, and will bold the word, as I believe it should be for MY OPINION here.

Heb 12:9 "....God is the FATHER of ALL spirits...." and the Holy Spirit births them ALL....good, bad, man, animal.

The Greek word for "christ" is 55497 christos which 'literally' defined means "anointed". Jesus was born with AN "anointed" human spirit which was holy (or sinless). That spirit was IN Him and that same holy/sinless spirit is IN US after our human birthed spirit is anointed/smeared. But it is not The Holy Spirit of God. It is a human spirit which was 'born OF/FROM The Holy Spirit of God. And it is subsequently A holy spirit after The Holy Spirit of God has smeared/anointed it, to be like the anointed spirit The Holy Spirit birthed Jesus with.

vs 16 "The veil" isn't lifted SO we'll turn to the Lord, but AFTER. God will not lift "the veil" from our minds prematurely to see truth before we're even ready or able to walk in it...eg obey. The Lord taught parables to hide the truth from those not ready to embrace IT, and yet, at the same time the parable revealed truth to those who were ready.

vs 18 The same "the lord" or 'lordship anointing', led "the spirit" in Jesus, to walk NOT after His sinful natured "Word became flesh" body. (Rom. 8:9) This leading transformed the FLESH/body of Jesus to manifest the glory or light of glory of the ONE triune God which were 'the father, the word, and the holy spirit. Three which are triunely defined as 3 individual ones, making up one GOD. A GOD who is now the spirit Father and the FLESH word and the HOLY spirit. IOW 2/3 spirit 1/3 flesh. FLESH with 'a holy anointed spirit' from GOD.

COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Cchrist IN you, the hope of glory: (the 'anointed spirit' leading in triune you)

2CO 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed (transformed/metamorphosed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Llord (lordship)who is the Sspirit (the anointed/christos spirit).

I am a triune being. Without a body I am not a HUMAN being. Without a functioning brain/soul I am a HUMAN been. Without a spirit I am a dead man. In hades my soul sleeps and my body returns to dust (unless embalmed hmmm?). But my eternal human spirit or my born again from GOD spirit, returns to GOD from whence IT/THEY came.

HEB 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall WE not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

A "WE" verse which can only be referring to those with a holy anointed/smeared spirit which was anointed/smeared BY The Holy Spirit of God REbirthing you into His Kingdom.

I'll stop with these two verses @PS95. And in all honesty, I don't have the interest or time to deal with anyone but you. I hope we can dialogue, but I know my 77 year old theological opinion, is out there.

NEXT VERSES TO COME?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??

Hello Hillsage- I hope you are well.
This is quite the post. I'm sorry I'm bleary eyed as it's late in the east. I read it, but I did not comprehend it. I will check back tomorrow when my brain is charged up. (hopefully)

chongshipei · Sunday at 11:35 PM

God is a Trinity. Three persons, one God. Jesus did not pray to Himself but to His Father in heaven.
The second person on the Trinity praying to the first person.
Yet, God is one God.
I know this is complex and being our understanding, but God is more complex than a human mind can possibly understand.

MatthewG · Monday at 1:19 AM

chongshipei said:
God is a Trinity. Three persons, one God. Jesus did not pray to Himself but to His Father in heaven.
The second person on the Trinity praying to the first person.
Yet, God is one God.
I know this is complex and being our understanding, but God is more complex than a human mind can possibly understand.

Did you learn this in college, a pastor who taught you in church, or YouTube?

Jack · Monday at 1:21 AM

MatthewG said:
Did you learn this in college, a pastor who taught you in church, or YouTube?

From the CYB Statement of Faith: "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are ONE God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)"

MatthewG · Monday at 1:32 AM

I don’t want to talk about the trinity anymore cause I don’t care for the topic. It doesn’t make anyone more close to Yahava just cause they believe it…

Anyone who thinks this way is arrogant and they are prideful.

You can believe whatever you want to but these are my thoughts.

Jack · Monday at 1:34 AM

MatthewG said:
Where I read that made statement in the bible? Extracting all the scripture use there. I don’t get it. Am I forced to do this?

Gen 1:26 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image"

Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

MatthewG said:
I don’t care about trinity.

Now that I certainly believe!

MatthewG said:
Doesn’t save people.

God doesn't save people? Then who does?

MatthewG said:
Goodbye.

You said you have me on ignore. Goodbye again?

MatthewG · Monday at 1:36 AM

Yes goodbye again. Take care you. :) I absolutely hate these conversations on here so much pride and people wanting to stick you in the side and stuff. It suck’s why debate I don’t even wanna do that hardly anymore it’s so pointless sometimes cause it does not matter at the end of the day.

Jack · Monday at 1:37 AM

MatthewG said:
I don’t want to talk about the trinity anymore cause I don’t care for the topic. It doesn’t make anyone more close to Yahava just cause they believe it…

Yahava isn't even in the Complete Jewish Bible!

Why did Jesus pray to himself?

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