Paul's Gospel

dak said:

In light of the conversation such statements are nothing more than an excuse to ignore the things that are pleasing to the Father. I see no love of the Father or His Word, His Son, in your arguments: it is merely lip service, worship, worship, worship, but never lift a finger to do anything which He tells you in His Word is pleasing to Him. If you had not appropriated the righteousness of the Father unto yourself, so as to justify yourself, perhaps you might not be in the position in which you are now.

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excuse me my friend. You are not very good at reading posts. You just falsly accused me of saying we can just give lip service. When I said the opposite.

Please reread my posts. then change your comments.. Or continue to be proven a false accuser.

Eternally Grateful said:

It is not works done to get saved. it is works that show you have been saved because you have been changed into a new creation and have the works Paul said in Eph 2: 10 we would do.

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That is almost word for word what i have been saying. I will repeat.... because you aren't listening, just defending your arrogance...

Brakelite said:

There's a great deal of presumption, judging, and unjustified criticism in your prejudiced post. And you draw conclusions from your own bias, not from anything I've written, despite your claims to the contrary. In short, I've never claimed, ever, to you or anyone else, that one is saved by his works.

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But I will repeat, without works you will not be saved. Now to understand the nuance of that truth, you need to pray for discernment. Allow me also to expand on that. These "good works" you are so opposed to, and which you claim have no affect on your eternal destiny, are not random once a week nice things you do for a friend or neighbour. It is a lifestyle. It is a mindset. And such a mindset comes only from receiving Christ, and having the mind of Christ. Thus it is not you, but Christ that lives in you. However, without Christ, you are lost. That my friend affects your eternal destiny.

Brakelite said:

That is almost word for word what i have been saying. I will repeat.... because you aren't listening, just defending your arrogance...

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actually no it is not what you have being saying, You make salvation as a direct result of works. where paul has works as a direct result of salvation

Brakelite said:

But I will repeat, without works you will not be saved.

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This is a false gospel.

Brakelite said:

Now to understand the nuance of that truth, you need to pray for discernment. Allow me also to expand on that. These "good works" you are so opposed to, and which you claim have no affect on your eternal destiny, are not random once a week nice things you do for a friend or neighbour. It is a lifestyle. It is a mindset. And such a mindset comes only from receiving Christ, and having the mind of Christ. Thus it is not you, but Christ that lives in you. However, without Christ, you are lost. That my friend affects your eternal destiny.

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You keep focuing on works.

I will focus on Christ and loving others.

You focus on self and you will come across as proud and keep pushing works.. When you focus on others. you allow works to come naturally. and they will come.

dak said:

You are the one ignoring what others say so that you can falsely accuse them:

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You have failed to confess you falsly accused me. How shoudl I respond to you?

dak said:

others here have stated multiple times that they do not believe what you are accusing them of believing

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They can say it until they are blue in the face.

when you teach works.. then deny it. don;t scream at the person accusing you of teaching works.

dak said:

, telling you over and over again that they do not believe in salvation by works,

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Yet all they teach is works..

dak said:

yet to no avail because you refuse to believe their testimony about themselves and what they believe. You are essentially calling people liars concerning their own testimony. Perhaps it is me, (the OP), who should ask that you be removed from this thread for disruption and the manifold false accusations that proceed from your heart and exit out of your mouth, (by way of your fingertips, I suppose). You are indeed ignoring the works and deeds that the Father says are pleasing to Him, and that the Master also teaches are pleasing to Father, and which Paul also says are pleasing to the Father. You cannot please the Father because your are carnal, sold under sin just as all of us, while the Torah is spiritual, and yet you do not even believe these words from Paul. And because of your disbelief and carnal mindset you cannot be subject to the spiritual Torah of the Father, and therefore cannot please Him. Moreover you cannot understand the spiritual Torah because you do not understand or believe the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts and why he actually was sent by the Father. You've fallen into the mainstream trap that only uses scripture to find ways to justify themselves in whatever they wish to believe.

Romans 7:14 TS2000
14 For we know that the Torah is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin.

Romans 8:5-8 TS2000
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the matters of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the matters of the Spirit.
6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace.
7 Because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards Elohim, for it does not subject itself to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed is it able,
8 and those who are in the flesh are unable to please Elohim.

And if you are sold under sin then you are a debtor!

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I am not in the flesh. I seek after the things of the spirit. I serve and love others based on Christ. not nbased on self. I do not push works. because works cannot be pushed. they are out of a heart which has been changed by God. we are new creation, created for good works.. Works do not save us, they will not determine who is saved and who is not.. We are saved by grace period.. through faith.

who do we trust? Gor or our works?



I will keep stating the truth.. You falsly accused me of preaching lip service. and preaching that we do not have to do works. in direct opposition to what I said. I do not care if your the op. don;t complain you are being falsly accused when you are the false accuser..;

dak said:

Tell me then how it is that you are subject to the Torah so that you may walk pleasing to the Father.

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lol.. the torah condemns me. Because I can not keep it. CHrist is the only one who kept it.

How do I walk pleasing to God?

Romans 8:3-7
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Matt 22: 37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Seeking after the spirit is serving and loving others.. I love because he first loved me.

“1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: 2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. 6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. 7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you. 9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; 10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. ”
Titus 2:1-15 KJV

Brakelite said:

“1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: 2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. 6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. 7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you. 9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; 10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. ”
Titus 2:1-15 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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Paul's Gospel is clearly taught in Scripture.
Here is how it started and why it applies to us now :)
++
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

dak said:

So yet again you confess that you do not believe Paul in the passages which I quoted from Rom 7&8. Pitting scripture against scripture so as to enforce your narrative-mindset is neither love for the Father nor love for His Son who is His Word.

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lol.

My friend. If you think your filthy rags will please God and make you acceptable. feel free.

I am not the one making the word contradict. You also have not proven I make the word contradict. Now your just making claims.. You continue to accuse. yet no proof..

Yawn

Eternally Grateful said:

lol.

My friend. If you think your filthy rags will please God and make you acceptable. feel free.

I am not the one making the word contradict. You also have not proven I make the word contradict. Now your just making claims.. You continue to accuse. yet no proof..

Yawn

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Scripture teaches that Paul is your Apostle & Minister today therefore no need for any confusion

Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

PeterAndroz said:

Scripture teaches that Paul is your Apostle & Minister today therefore no need for any confusion

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No. Christ is my minister and and savior. He is my mediator and king. Paul was a great servant of his.

Your the one confused my friend.

Eternally Grateful said:

No. Christ is my minister and and savior. He is my mediator and king. Paul was a great servant of his.

Your the one confused my friend.

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I agree. This notion of Paul being an apostle for us today seems to be appearing in several threads. Yes, Paul was the human author of quite a bit of the New Testament, and of course the whole of the bible is God's revelation of Himself to people in all ages, but others wrote bible books too, like Peter, John, Luke and James. Nowhere to we read in the bible (as far as I know) that Paul or anybody else was called to be an apostle or a minister to people living two thousand years in his future.

Eternally Grateful said:

No. Christ is my minister and and savior. He is my mediator and king. Paul was a great servant of his.

Your the one confused my friend.

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You my friend are confused AND ignorant of Scripture :-
Let's see what Christ selected Paul to do :)
Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

PeterAndroz said:

You my friend are confused AND ignorant of Scripture :-
Let's see what Christ selected Paul to do :)
Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

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True, but where do any of those verses say that Paul would still be a minister to the Gentiles two thousand years later?

David Lamb said:

True, but where do any of those verses say that Paul would still be a minister to the Gentiles two thousand years later?

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The same place that teaches these verses no longer apply today
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

David Lamb said:

True, but where do any of those verses say that Paul would still be a minister to the Gentiles two thousand years later?

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1 Tim 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Please list the verses that teach HEREAFTER has ended then your question will be answered