Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

ewq1938 · Jul 12, 2026

Dan Clarkston said:
Which does not prove the first 3.5 years is the time during which the antichrist first comes to power and when he spends time deceiving the entire world to follow him.

The entire length is 42 months. There is no "first half" or anything of the sort. The trib being shortened does not mean staying the same length. I shouldn't have to explain why that is.

Dan Clarkston · Jul 12, 2026

ewq1938 said:
The entire length is 42 months. There is no "first half" or anything of the sort. The trib being shortened does not mean staying the same length. I shouldn't have to explain why that is.

The length of the tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The Great Tribulation is the last half of the tribulation period

You are confusing the last half with the entire 7 year tribulation period.

The last half is a moot point for me as I won't be here after the catching away of the Lord's faithful.

If you'd like to refuse the rescue and stay here, feel free.

ewq1938 · Jul 13, 2026

Dan Clarkston said:
The length of the tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The Great Tribulation is the last half of the tribulation period

No, the trib andf GT are two ways the bible speaks of the same period of time and Jesus said it would be shortened so no longer 7 years long.

Dan Clarkston said:
If you'd like to refuse the rescue and stay here, feel free.

It's better than Apostasy...

Dan Clarkston · Jul 13, 2026

ewq1938 said:
It's better than Apostasy...

So those recused by the Lord and taken off the earth pre-wrath are in apostasy?

I'm going to believe God's promises of deliverance and victory over the forces of darkness because I'm a believer. That's what believers do is they believe God's promises.

Romans 3:3,4
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

rebuilder 454 · Tuesday at 9:29 AM

Dan Clarkston said:
Which does not prove the first 3.5 years is the time during which the antichrist first comes to power and when he spends time deceiving the entire world to follow him.

The ant-christ does not show up on the scene and immediately all things are bad in the world. If it went down like that then the entire world would be opposed to the anti-christ.

The devil's boy shows up on the world stage as this seemingly great new world leader who appears to have solutions for all the problems of the world so there is a space of time (3.5 years) that the anti-christ is in power doing things most of the world loves and is in agreement with.

The Lord allows this massive world wide deception because they world rejects Him and wants the devil, and so the Lord lets the world have the devil and his boy the anti-christ.

The train goes off the tracks so to speak during the last have and it's the tribulation saints (those not taken in the pre-wrath rapture, or that have gotten born again after the rapture) that the devil is attacking to which the Lord shortens their time of exposure

Nope.
The 4 horsemen unleash hell on this earth.
The first one on a white horse kicks off the 7 yr trib.
The rapture ( every rapture verse) is peacetime, normal life ,everyday life, commerce, and planning for the future, which is exactly opposite of the post trib model ....which is unbiblical.

rebuilder 454 · Tuesday at 9:33 AM

ewq1938 said:
No, the trib andf GT are two ways the bible speaks of the same period of time and Jesus said it would be shortened so no longer 7 years long.

It's better than Apostasy...

That's like saying a man in prison has his time shortened VIA TAKEN OUT OF PRISON, and you interpret it as the prison was shut down so his sentence is shortened.

Nope, the ELECT ARE TAKEN OUT...(days shortened) in Rev 14:14.

You are not connecting the dots properly.

rebuilder 454 · Tuesday at 9:38 AM

ewq1938 said:
No, Jesus said the tribulation would be shortened so it had been 7 years long in Daniel, but Rev has it half of that length.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

There is no 7 year tribulation anymore. We all know there is a 42 month tribulation in Rev 13. We also know in the gospels Christ spoke of the time of the tribulation being shortened, Matthew 24:22. Since we have a current prophecy of 3.5 years then we know it was originally longer (likely 7 years) and later shortened.

So, we won't have a 7 year trib but will have a 3.5 year long tribulation. This begins with the first beast, continues with the second beast and ends when Christ arrives at the second coming.

To shorten something means it was a certain length of time, then it was shortened to a shorter amount of time.

Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. (the original time will be shorter to benefit the elect)

No one would survive the original length of the trib so for the sake of the elect, God will shorten the trib so they can survive. This is why Paul declares some Christians will be alive and remain unto the coming of Christ.They would not have survived had the trib been it's original length.

Here we see that Jesus says the Great Tribulation was shortened. That means OT prophecy had a longer Great Tribulation than the actual Great Tribulation shall be. That is an example of a change God made to OT prophecy. In Daniel we have a 7 year trib but in Revelation we have a 3.5 year trib. God literally cut the trib in half. Going by OT prophecy alone you would have the wrong length.

Nope.
Daniel 9 :27 declares in the middle of the 7byr trib ( one week) the AOD is performed in the temple.
3,5 yrs...then the next 3.5 yrs.= 7 yr period of trib/wrath.

Dan Clarkston · Tuesday at 10:30 AM

rebuilder 454 said:
The first one on a white horse kicks off the 7 yr trib.

Actually the start of the 7 year tribulation period starts when the anti-christ is revealed to the world which is enabled by the falling away

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

rebuilder 454 · Wednesday at 11:00 AM

Dan Clarkston said:
Actually the start of the 7 year tribulation period starts when the anti-christ is revealed to the world which is enabled by the falling away

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

We are in the falling away.
So I don't see your point at all.

Dan Clarkston · Wednesday at 2:06 PM

rebuilder 454 said:
We are in the falling away.
So I don't see your point at all.

OK, so what part of "the 7 year tribulation period starts when the anti-christ is revealed to the world" where you having problems understanding exactly?

rebuilder 454 · Thursday at 6:27 AM

Dan Clarkston said:
OK, so what part of "the 7 year tribulation period starts when the anti-christ is revealed to the world" where you having problems understanding exactly? View attachment 86822

He is revealed way before the trib starts.
It says "REVEALED" correct?

Obama was REVEALED way before he took power.
He was revealed more than a year before he was elected . ( way before taking power)

So by the Lord using "revealed" He was pointing to a pretribb rapture.
The white horse rider , of the 4 riders, is the ac, and kicks off the 7byr trib.
The bow in his hand represents covenant.
A 7 yr covenant.

amigo de christo · Thursday at 6:56 AM

rebuilder 454 said:
We are in the falling away.
So I don't see your point at all.

oh we are indeed in a massive falling away .
Many have indeed fallen in love with the love of a harlot
who by means of her LOVE , her ALL INCLUSIVE love
has decieved them greatly into beleiving this to be the Love of GOD
and His plan for Peace in the world .
But here is who it leads them as one right too . And by PEACE shall HE destroy many .
Beware for an ecumeinal inclusive whore knows exactly what to wear
to decieve and to allure ANY man unto her chambers in any group . That ho comes in as though
she is of them . And now she merges the false religoins with christendom
and all they think is , OH LOVE LOVE LOVE and this is the way for to attain peace n safety on earth .
TALK about A DELUSION . Oh indeed the hour is very late .

Dan Clarkston · Thursday at 10:50 AM

rebuilder 454 said:
He is revealed way before the trib starts.
It says "REVEALED" correct?

Obama was REVEALED way before he took power.
He was revealed more than a year before he was elected . ( way before taking power)

No, in this context revealed means announced to the world - here is your one world leader!

And all the people will snap to and do as they are instructed, which is follow and support the new world leader as this will be the new hive mindset where the majority of the people of the world will follow this guy without question just like bees instinctively follow the hive queen and have no idea why other than it is required and everyone else is doing it so they will do it too.

Sadly many Christians will turn away from the Lord Jesus and chose to follow the one world nutjob instead. They will not longer be saved when they do so these folks sadly won't be in attendance at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

rebuilder 454 said:
So by the Lord using "revealed" He was pointing to a pretribb rapture.

The passage is literally saying the catching away of the church will not happen until after the falling away (people backsliding away from walking with the Lord becoming corrupt and no longer saved) and the world knowing who the one world leader is:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

So there is no pre-trib rapture.

The rapture will take place pre-wrath, before the devil is allowed to have free reign over the world which results in his wrath being poured out on earth's inhabitants resulting in God's wrath being poured out on the anti-christ. Christians who know the Lord will be taken away.

Sadly some think they are called to remain here and suffer under the hand of satan so until them it shall be done according to their faith and the Lord will not take these people in the rapture due to their unbelief. "According to your faith it shall be done unto you" means you reap what you sow... those who choose to believe they are supposed to go through the great tribulation will get what they believe for.

They'll regret it late and many will deny the Lord to try and save their own lives (because they are skeered living in fear like little girls) and end up spending eternity in hell.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

rebuilder 454 · Friday at 10:33 AM

Dan Clarkston said:
No, in this context revealed means announced to the world - here is your one world leader!

And all the people will snap to and do as they are instructed, which is follow and support the new world leader as this will be the new hive mindset where the majority of the people of the world will follow this guy without question just like bees instinctively follow the hive queen and have no idea why other than it is required and everyone else is doing it so they will do it too.

Sadly many Christians will turn away from the Lord Jesus and chose to follow the one world nutjob instead. They will not longer be saved when they do so these folks sadly won't be in attendance at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

The passage is literally saying the catching away of the church will not happen until after the falling away (people backsliding away from walking with the Lord becoming corrupt and no longer saved) and the world knowing who the one world leader is:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

So there is no pre-trib rapture.

The rapture will take place pre-wrath, before the devil is allowed to have free reign over the world which results in his wrath being poured out on earth's inhabitants resulting in God's wrath being poured out on the anti-christ. Christians who know the Lord will be taken away.

Sadly some think they are called to remain here and suffer under the hand of satan so until them it shall be done according to their faith and the Lord will not take these people in the rapture due to their unbelief. "According to your faith it shall be done unto you" means you reap what you sow... those who choose to believe they are supposed to go through the great tribulation will get what they believe for.

They'll regret it late and many will deny the Lord to try and save their own lives (because they are skeered living in fear like little girls) and end up spending eternity in hell.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Nope.
"Revealed" is hard to wiggle out of.

Maybe look up the definition.

It reads like it does.
No additives, no dilutants.
Falling away
Revealed
Rapture.

Exactly like it reads.
Sorry.

You do not know what the purpose of the rapture is., nor what the Jewish gathering is, nor the purpose for the 7 yr trib.
All that is missing in your presentation.

Dan Clarkston · Saturday at 9:07 AM

rebuilder 454 said:
"Revealed" is hard to wiggle out of.

No, for those with common sense who are not listening to the devil's "alternative definitions" like Adam and Eve were tricked by.... revealed simply means st some point the entire world will know who the one world leader is and prior to then the world did not know since he had not been revealed yet.

rebuilder 454 said:
You do not know what the purpose of the rapture is., nor what the Jewish gathering is, nor the purpose for the 7 yr trib.
All that is missing in your presentation.

Ignorance of what is going on is your department, and you are running it quite well I see not knowing why God created man kind, being in the dark concerning the meaning of life and all.

rebuilder 454 · Saturday at 11:49 AM

Dan Clarkston said:
No, for those with common sense who are not listening to the devil's "alternative definitions" like Adam and Eve were tricked by.... revealed simply means st some point the entire world will know who the one world leader is and prior to then the world did not know since he had not been revealed yet.

Ignorance of what is going on is your department, and you are running it quite well I see not knowing why God created man kind, being in the dark concerning the meaning of life and all.

Instead of going after me personally, defend your deal.
Defend your theory and base it on something

Then pretend Obama was not REVEALED prior to taking power.

Maybe this will help..
REVE'AL, verb transitive [Latin revelo; re and velo, to veil.]

1. To disclose; to discover; to show; to make known something before unknown or concealed; as, to reveal secrets.

2. To disclose, discover or make known

NOW ...keep in mind what you are presenting.
You are telling us that the AC is revealed after the trib.
Maybe to you he will be.
Maybe Obama was a great president to you for his first term.
Any believer, not asleep , could see his wickedness BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE.
HE WAS 100% REVEALED PRIOR TO BEING IN POWER.
100%

But, anyway, believe anything you want.

Dan Clarkston · Saturday at 12:35 PM

rebuilder 454 said:
You are telling us that the AC is revealed after the trib.

I never said anything even close to that. Scripture says he is known to the world before the catching away of the church. As usual you have things bass ackwards.

The passage is literally saying the catching away of the church will not happen until after the falling away (people backsliding away from walking with the Lord becoming corrupt and no longer saved) and the world knowing who the one world leader is:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

When the son of perdition is revealed he will be in the office of one world leader at that point in time. That's what will be announced... "Hey all you slow ones - here is your need leader, bow down clown!"

This is not a situation like when your favorite President obama was elected and had to wait a few months to be sown in and actually take office.

rebuilder 454 said:
Maybe Obama was a great president to you for his first term.

No, I don't follow the baby killing perverts, but you can if you'd like.

Your problem is you are carnal natural things and trying to use them to understand spiritual things.

This has led to the deep hole of error you currently find yourself engulfed in.

rebuilder 454 · 2026-07-19T10:20:16-0500

Dan Clarkston said:
I never said anything even close to that. Scripture says he is known to the world before the catching away of the church. As usual you have things bass ackwards.

The passage is literally saying the catching away of the church will not happen until after the falling away (people backsliding away from walking with the Lord becoming corrupt and no longer saved) and the world knowing who the one world leader is:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

When the son of perdition is revealed he will be in the office of one world leader at that point in time. That's what will be announced... "Hey all you slow ones - here is your need leader, bow down clown!"

This is not a situation like when your favorite President obama was elected and had to wait a few months to be sown in and actually take office.

No, I don't follow the baby killing perverts, but you can if you'd like.

Your problem is you are carnal natural things and trying to use them to understand spiritual things.

This has led to the deep hole of error you currently find yourself engulfed in.

No need for the hate.
You still will not address "revealed" and seem to think "revealed" means "in power".
Obama was a leader.
A bad one, but that is problematic to your view, in the light of HE WAS REVEALED WAY BEFORE IN POWER. (no matter how bad or good he was).
Try to follow along.
...and without the wild emotions.

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Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

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