Daniel 9:25 - the messiah the prince

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2023
2,799
1,004
113
56
Somewhere west of Mississippi River
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus used that same desolate language himself in Matthew 23:38 when he said "your house is left unto you desolate," speaking over Jerusalem and its people. So I take "it" the same way, the house left desolate.

And the consummation is when God sent the armies in to destroy the city, which is the picture Jesus gave in Matthew 22:7 where the king sends his armies and burns their city.

IDK, but I know the parable has to match Daniels account.

That interpretation creates confusion because it merges two different desolations that Daniel 9 separates.

Dan 9:26-27
(26)
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 concerns the judgment and destruction of the Old Testament congregation, where Messiah was rejected and “cut off.” The people of the coming prince destroyed the city and the sanctuary, bringing desolation upon Jerusalem and the earthly temple. This is the same judgment Jesus spoke of when He said:

Mat 23:38
(38)
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

And it is also reflected in the parable of the wedding feast:

Mat 22:7
(7)
But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

However, Daniel 9:27 moves beyond the destruction of the Old Testament house. It speaks of another desolation connected with the covenant, the abomination, and the period leading “until the consummation.” This points to the desolation that comes upon the New Testament congregation before the final end.

Jesus warned His disciples about this same spiritual danger:

Matt 24:24
(24)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

And Paul warned that the apostasy would occur before the end:
2Th 2:3
(3)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Therefore, Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27 are not describing one single desolation. Verse 26 deals with the judgment upon the Old Testament congregation and Jerusalem. Verse 27 deals with the later desolation caused by apostasy and abomination within the New Testament congregation, continuing until the consummation.

Matthew 22:7 belongs with the judgment described in Daniel 9:26, not the desolation described in Daniel 9:27. The two judgments are related because both involve God’s covenant people being judged, but they are not the same event.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndianaRob

The Light

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2022
4,780
456
83
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Dan 9:26
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The passage does not say that Christ Himself would destroy the physical city. Rather, it says, "the people of the prince that shall come" would destroy the city and the sanctuary. I understand these to be His people, the Lord's congregation.

Didn't Christ warn the Jews?

Joh 2:18-21
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

It was the Jews who destroyed the temple of Christ's body. In doing so, the kingdom was taken from them and given to another through Christ's death and resurrection on the third day. Like many people today, the Jews at that time did not understand the spiritual nature of God's Word, the true identity of the holy temple, or what Christ meant by raising it again in three days.

Therefore, I believe the "prince" in Daniel 9:26 is the same Prince introduced earlier in the chapter—Messiah the Prince. The context of Daniel 9 is centered on God, His Messiah, and His covenant people, Israel. There is no indication in the passage that a separate future "evil prince" suddenly enters the prophecy. The text naturally continues speaking about the same Prince already identified as the Messiah.
Use some commonsense brother.

The Jews are not going to destroy their own city and Jesus did not and will not destroy Jerusalem. No need in falling off the trail with the incorrect temple sidetrack.
 

The Light

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2022
4,780
456
83
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The Commander wasn't kidding.
What this verse is saying is that the Jews were not going to receive Jesus as Messiah. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the destruction of the city of Jerusalem.
 

The Light

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2022
4,780
456
83
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Jesus will destroy the sanctuary that is built by Jews for the end of THIS world, a 3rd temple, which is not present on the temple mount yet today. Those Jews in Jerusalem today already have the materials ready to build it, even the cornerstone has been cut.
Wow. This is twice in one day that you have understood the written Word of God. Shocking. Completely shocking.

The next thing you known, you will be understanding that there are two raptures. The man of sin will be revealed before the second rapture which occurs at the 6th seal.
But He is coming for His Church in an hour that you think not before the great tribulation. Learn this truth. The fig tree has two harvests.
 

claninja

Active Member
Dec 11, 2022
699
130
43
the south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You mean you cannot tell the difference between the phrase "Messiah the Prince" and the word "Messiah" in capitals, vs. the phrase "the people of the prince" with no connected "Messiah" with it? Is English not your first language?

Why would the KJV translators capitalize "Messiah" in verse 26 if they didn't think it was the same one spoken of in verse 25 as "Messiah the Prince"?

And how could "Messiah" be "cut off" at the 69th symbolic week, but come back and be "the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" when we know... that was the Roman general Titus that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple in 70 A.D.?

The word for "prince" can mean a commander, chief, ruler, prince, etc. But "Messiah the Prince" or "Messiah" can apply ONLY to Lord Jesus Christ. And as per Bible prophecy, Jesus will destroy the sanctuary that is built by Jews for the end of THIS world, a 3rd temple, which is not present on the temple mount yet today. Those Jews in Jerusalem today already have the materials ready to build it, even the cornerstone has been cut.

Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the
Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

Like @covenantee demonstrated, prince in 26b did have a capital in an English translation , so I don’t think your capital vs lower case argument is relevant to my point.

Additionally, careful with the English. It doesn’t say the prince shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary. Instead, it’s “the people” of the prince to come who will destroy the city and sanctuary.

Finally, you are applying an external framework - titus, 70ad, etc…… I’m simply asking from an internal contextual perspective prior to external framework.

So, again, Why would the messiah in vs 26a be the same as the messiah in vs 25, but the prince in vs 26b not be the same as the prince in 25?
 

claninja

Active Member
Dec 11, 2022
699
130
43
the south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
When exactly did Jesus destroy the city of Jerusalem?

He didn't and therefore it cannot be the same prince.

You’ve misunderstood my question.

I’m not looking for the specific identity of the prince. I’m asking why, from an internal grammatical and contextual standpoint, does the messiah in vs 26a refer to the messiah in vs 25, BUT the prince in 26b does not refer to the prince in 25?
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
8,008
3,539
113
75
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
What this verse is saying is that the Jews were not going to receive Jesus as Messiah. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the destruction of the city of Jerusalem.
Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"He" was/is Messiah.

The One who made Jerusalem desolate.
 

IndianaRob

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2023
2,134
874
113
55
Louisville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That interpretation creates confusion because it merges two different desolations that Daniel 9 separates.

Dan 9:26-27
(26)
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 concerns the judgment and destruction of the Old Testament congregation, where Messiah was rejected and “cut off.” The people of the coming prince destroyed the city and the sanctuary, bringing desolation upon Jerusalem and the earthly temple. This is the same judgment Jesus spoke of when He said:

Mat 23:38
(38)
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

And it is also reflected in the parable of the wedding feast:

Mat 22:7
(7)
But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

However, Daniel 9:27 moves beyond the destruction of the Old Testament house. It speaks of another desolation connected with the covenant, the abomination, and the period leading “until the consummation.” This points to the desolation that comes upon the New Testament congregation before the final end.

Jesus warned His disciples about this same spiritual danger:

Matt 24:24
(24)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

And Paul warned that the apostasy would occur before the end:
2Th 2:3
(3)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Therefore, Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27 are not describing one single desolation. Verse 26 deals with the judgment upon the Old Testament congregation and Jerusalem. Verse 27 deals with the later desolation caused by apostasy and abomination within the New Testament congregation, continuing until the consummation.

Matthew 22:7 belongs with the judgment described in Daniel 9:26, not the desolation described in Daniel 9:27. The two judgments are related because both involve God’s covenant people being judged, but they are not the same event.
I'd disagree. I take the consummation as the end of Israel, meaning the destruction of AD 70 you already agreed to in verse 26.

Here's my problem with splitting them. Nothing in verse 27 signals a change of subject. Same "he," same one week, same covenant, running straight through to the consummation. If the desolation in 27 falls on a different people in a different era than the one in 26, what in the text marks that shift?
 
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2023
2,799
1,004
113
56
Somewhere west of Mississippi River
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Use some commonsense brother.

The Jews are not going to destroy their own city and Jesus did not and will not destroy Jerusalem. No need in falling off the trail with the incorrect temple sidetrack.

Not only you lacks commonsense but also lacks spiritual discernment like many people here. So exactly HOW did the Jewish people destroy the CITY at the CROSS?

Pay attention carefully, if you have spiritual ears to hear...the Jews destroyed the City in the exact same way the City was prophesied to be destroyed. They destroyed the Sanctuary in the exact same way the Sanctuary was prophesied to be destroyed. By the people of the Prince, their Messiah, in the killing of Christ. ...as was prophesied:

Daniel 9:26
  • "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
Acts 2:36
  • "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."
The churches are ambiguous about Israel rejecting Christ and destroying the physical temple, but God is not ambiguous about it. As was prophesied, it was the people of the prince, Messiah, who destroyed both city and sanctuary. Even as the leaders of Israel asked a sign demonstrating that he had the power or authority to cast out of the Temple, and Christ answered, "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up!" That was the sign they requested, and we all know what that meant, even though they were blinded and did not.

John 2:18-21
  • "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
  • Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
  • Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
  • But he spake of the temple of his body."
Christ is the only true Holy City, and the only true Holy Temple that was destroyed, and the physical representations merely were types of Him. Christ "IS" the City and Sanctuary by whom, and in whom all His people live and move and have their being. He is not a city made of physical wood and stone today any more than the Lord's Holy Mountain is the elevated hill located in the Middle East called Mount Zion. He is the true city of promise versus the physical city that merely represented it before the cross. The question is, which one did the people of the Prince Messiah destroy?

Likewise, to Abraham was the promise made, and he sought the spiritual city, while the Scribes and Pharisees sought the physical. That's why they couldn't understand how Christ was not talking about a Temple that took 46 years to build, even though He had just thrown the buyers and sellers out of that Physical Temple and they were asking for a SIGN that he had power to do this. He replied, Destroy this Temple and I will rebuild it in 3 days. Same with them destroying the city.

Hebrews 11:8-10
  • "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
  • By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
  • For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

The Holy City of promise can only be established in Christ. But this stone the builders rejected is become part of another building of God. The original builders (Jews) having rejected Him as the foundation of their City and Sanctuary. So they (His people) destroyed him, and with Him the Holy City and Holy Temple. They don't have it anymore, much less saw it destroyed in AD 70. Again, it comes back to our perceiving the spiritual, versus looking for the carnal or physical fulfillment, even as Israel made the same mistake in doing. Even as some Churches today are looking for physical fulfillment in 70AD or a future Peace and Safety in Physical Israel. The same mistakes over and over again. There is nothing new under the sun.

Isaiah 40:1-2
  • "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
  • Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins."
God was not talking about physical city here. The Israelites were always looking for a Messiah to set them free from the captivity or bondage of the Romans who ruled over them. They were always looking for a earthly Messiah to establish a physical political kingdom and rule from Physical Jerusalem. They were always looking for a Messiah that would end war and establish a physical Peace and safety in the Middle East--and because they were, they totally missed the True Messiah who would free them, who would reign in the kingdom of Israel, and give them real Peace and Safety. Yes, Jerusalem would have peace. But not the sin-cursed city in the Middle East. It was NEVER the Jerusalem below, which was of the captivity; it was the only Holy City of prophecy, wherein God's people could ever find true peace and safety. The city wherein they would have their warfare cease, is in Christ. Not in that sin-cursed city in the Middle East, but in a city whose builder and maker is God. But they summarily rejected that city. God allowed them to destroy the city which was called by His name, as well as the Temple called by His name. When they destroyed or cutoff Christ, they destroyed both city and sanctuary exactly according to the prophecy of Daniel 9. Their (the people of the Prince) house was then left unto them desolate. Not in AD 70, but when they did this. Christ says so unambiguously:

Matthew 23:37-28
  • "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
  • Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."
Why does Christ speak to a City except that the city be a people, not buildings, not literal stones, but the people inhabiting that city? Hello? Is He judging a physical city? Is He talking about the people who would destroy Him when He spoke of the Temple, or the literal building that they would "presumably" destroy? He's talking about the same city that Daniel 9 prophesied that they (His people) would destroy, and that desolations were determined upon. It was because they rejected their Messiah, the Prince, and they killed Him (as they had done the prophets God had sent before Him). It wasn't destroyed years later when the Romans sacked the place. But when they destroyed Christ. Right at the Cross! Christ "IS" the City wherein righteousness dwells as sure as He is the Holy Temple. That's how the Holy City can come down from Heaven, because it is Christ that is our conurbation, city, habitation, metropolis, where we live and breathe and have our being.

So when you ask, "How did the Jewish People destroy the City AT THE CROSS," the answer is clear. The Holy City that is called by God's name and the Sanctuary of sacrifice were representations of Christ. He is the antitype, the true Holy dwelling place and true place of worship, the true Holy City and Holy Temple. ...if we will receive it. When they destroyed Christ, they destroyed both city and sanctuary. That was when Christ took their kingdom represenative and gave it to New Testament congregation... in three days. They destroyed neither in AD 70. How then is a Holy City of God destroyed that wasn't Holy anyway in AD 70, nor of God, and a Holy Temple that isn't Holy, nor of God? Makes no sense! So much for your common sense!
 

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2023
2,799
1,004
113
56
Somewhere west of Mississippi River
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'd disagree. I take the consummation as the end of Israel, meaning the destruction of AD 70 you already agreed to in verse 26.

LOL. Read my post. Verse 26 has NOTHING to do with destruction of 70AD!

Here's my problem with splitting them. Nothing in verse 27 signals a change of subject. Same "he," same one week, same covenant, running straight through to the consummation. If the desolation in 27 falls on a different people in a different era than the one in 26, what in the text marks that shift?

Christ was cut off at the Cross, and at that very moment He confirmed the New Covenant by His blood (Hebrews 9). He had to die for the testament, or covenant, to be put into effect. That confirmation extends throughout the final week—the entire New Testament period—until all Elect are secured ... until the consummation at His Second Coming. Selah!
 

IndianaRob

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2023
2,134
874
113
55
Louisville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
LOL. Read my post. Verse 26 has NOTHING to do with destruction of 70AD!



Christ was cut off at the Cross, and at that very moment He confirmed the New Covenant by His blood (Hebrews 9). He had to die for the testament, or covenant, to be put into effect. That confirmation extends throughout the final week—the entire New Testament period—until all Elect are secured ... until the consummation at His Second Coming. Selah!
How do you rationalize the week being the entire New Testament period, when the other sixty-nine were finite spans running to a fixed point?
 

IndianaRob

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2023
2,134
874
113
55
Louisville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you even know what covenant that Christ confirmed at the Cross? And for who?
Yeah the Bible tells you exactly which covenant Christ confirmed.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now back to my question. How does the one week become the entire New Testament period when the other sixty-nine were finite spans running to a fixed point?
 
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2023
2,799
1,004
113
56
Somewhere west of Mississippi River
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah the Bible tells you exactly which covenant Christ confirmed.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now back to my question. How does the one week become the entire New Testament period when the other sixty-nine were finite spans running to a fixed point?

Dan 9:27
  • And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The covenant is the sacrifice and offering of Christ, which is a synonym for SALVATION for MANY! Once all of the tribes/families of Israel are sealed, there will be no more offering for sin. This will be when Christ will cause the sacrifice and offering will cease (for salvation) to end! We can see that sacrifice and offering in the New Testament signifies salvation in such passages as Hebrews, in context of the Church and becoming saved. So it ceasing would be the end of it:

Hebrews 10:25-26
  • "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
  • For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Clearly, unambiguously, God is using Sacrifice for sin as a synonym for the ability to become saved. This is because Christ is our "true" sacrifice and offering, which those old Testament types merely foreshadowed.

Hebrews 10:4-12
  • "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
  • Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
  • In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
  • Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
  • Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
  • Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
  • By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
  • And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
  • But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"
Therefore, Christ "is" the sacrifice and offering of the New Testament. Not Old Testament animal sacrifices revisited! In the New testament age, there is no physical sacrifices and offerings of scripture or prophesy, there are only the spiritual sacrifice and offering, which is the broken body of Christ in Salvation. And that is why God could say in Hebrews 10:26 to those forsaking Christ, "there remains no more sacrifice for him!" For example, there remains no more chance of salvation.

Selah!

For example, sacrifice and offering in the New Testament period is salvation in Christ taking away sin. The type (physical sacrifice and offering) is "the first" that Hebrew says was taken away. The sealing of the election is now the New Testament illustration of sacrifice and offering that "truly" takes away sin. The second spiritual "true," which the first merely was a physical "shadow" or type of.

Hebrews 9:26
  • "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
This sacrifice is the New Testament sacrifice. Selah! Not Physical Old Testament sacrifices of animals which most certainly does not cease in the midst of the New Testament week. The only sacrifice and offering that "CAN" cease in the midst of the New testament week (not at Christ's death), is the New Testament sacrifice and offerings. Selah!

Ephesians 5:1-2
  • "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
  • And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an Offering and a Sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."
You see, in the New Testament, Christ Himself is our sacrifice and offering. Take Christ away, and you take away sacrifice and offering.

The question is, when will "This sacrifice and Offering" Cease? When will Christ cease from the Holy Place? When will it cease in the midst of the week where abomination stand in the where it ought not?

Daniel 9:27
  • "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
Clearly, the midst of the New Covenant week, all Israel having been sealed, "this" New Covenant Sacrifice and Offering will cease, and Christ will be removed from the midst. Satan shall be loosed from his prison, and iniquity will of course abound. Even as the prophets have foretold!

2nd Thessalonians 2:7-9
  • "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (restraineth) will let (restrain), until he be taken out of the way (literally, midst).
  • And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
  • Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
Christ, the restrainer of iniquity, is taken out of the "midst" of the Holy Temple (2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4), Satan being loosed, the man of sin now being seated (ruling) therein in place of Christ, God's judgment resting upon that house of ill repute. But none of this can happen UNTIL All Israel is sealed and their testimony finished (Revelation 11:7). Then, and only then, can/will sacrifice and offering cease. It has nothing whatsoever to do with killing physical lambs or offering incense or smearing blood of goats, blah blah blah. It is Christ’s offering for sin that was available until all the tribes of Israel are sealed. Period! And God's judgment that was restrained (along with Satan until they were all sealed. Go read Revelation 7:1-4 yourself carefully!

Isaiah 30:10-11
  • "Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
  • Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us."
This is sacrifice and offering ceasing! This is how He who restrains sin, will be taken from the midst of the Holy Temple. This is how Christ, our sacrifice and offering, will cease in the midst of the New Testament week and abominations stand in the Holy Place which is of course the CHURCH where many people missed the point!
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndianaRob

IndianaRob

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2023
2,134
874
113
55
Louisville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dan 9:27
  • And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The covenant is the sacrifice and offering of Christ, which is a synonym for SALVATION for MANY! Once all of the tribes/families of Israel are sealed, there will be no more offering for sin. This will be when Christ will cause the sacrifice and offering will cease (for salvation) to end! We can see that sacrifice and offering in the New Testament signifies salvation in such passages as Hebrews, in context of the Church and becoming saved. So it ceasing would be the end of it:

Hebrews 10:25-26
  • "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
  • For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Clearly, unambiguously, God is using Sacrifice for sin as a synonym for the ability to become saved. This is because Christ is our "true" sacrifice and offering, which those old Testament types merely foreshadowed.

Hebrews 10:4-12
  • "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
  • Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
  • In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
  • Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
  • Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
  • Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
  • By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
  • And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
  • But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"
Therefore, Christ "is" the sacrifice and offering of the New Testament. Not Old Testament animal sacrifices revisited! In the New testament age, there is no physical sacrifices and offerings of scripture or prophesy, there are only the spiritual sacrifice and offering, which is the broken body of Christ in Salvation. And that is why God could say in Hebrews 10:26 to those forsaking Christ, "there remains no more sacrifice for him!" For example, there remains no more chance of salvation.

Selah!

For example, sacrifice and offering in the New Testament period is salvation in Christ taking away sin. The type (physical sacrifice and offering) is "the first" that Hebrew says was taken away. The sealing of the election is now the New Testament illustration of sacrifice and offering that "truly" takes away sin. The second spiritual "true," which the first merely was a physical "shadow" or type of.

Hebrews 9:26
  • "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
This sacrifice is the New Testament sacrifice. Selah! Not Physical Old Testament sacrifices of animals which most certainly does not cease in the midst of the New Testament week. The only sacrifice and offering that "CAN" cease in the midst of the New testament week (not at Christ's death), is the New Testament sacrifice and offerings. Selah!

Ephesians 5:1-2
  • "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
  • And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an Offering and a Sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."
You see, in the New Testament, Christ Himself is our sacrifice and offering. Take Christ away, and you take away sacrifice and offering.

The question is, when will "This sacrifice and Offering" Cease? When will Christ cease from the Holy Place? When will it cease in the midst of the week where abomination stand in the where it ought not?

Daniel 9:27
  • "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
Clearly, the midst of the New Covenant week, all Israel having been sealed, "this" New Covenant Sacrifice and Offering will cease, and Christ will be removed from the midst. Satan shall be loosed from his prison, and iniquity will of course abound. Even as the prophets have foretold!

2nd Thessalonians 2:7-9
  • "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (restraineth) will let (restrain), until he be taken out of the way (literally, midst).
  • And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
  • Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
Christ, the restrainer of iniquity, is taken out of the "midst" of the Holy Temple (2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4), Satan being loosed, the man of sin now being seated (ruling) therein in place of Christ, God's judgment resting upon that house of ill repute. But none of this can happen UNTIL All Israel is sealed and their testimony finished (Revelation 11:7). Then, and only then, can/will sacrifice and offering cease. It has nothing whatsoever to do with killing physical lambs or offering incense or smearing blood of goats, blah blah blah. It is Christ’s offering for sin that was available until all the tribes of Israel are sealed. Period! And God's judgment that was restrained (along with Satan until they were all sealed. Go read Revelation 7:1-4 yourself carefully!

Isaiah 30:10-11
  • "Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
  • Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us."
This is sacrifice and offering ceasing! This is how He who restrains sin, will be taken from the midst of the Holy Temple. This is how Christ, our sacrifice and offering, will cease in the midst of the New Testament week and abominations stand in the Holy Place which is of course the CHURCH where many people missed the point!
We'll have to disagree on it.
 

The Light

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2022
4,780
456
83
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
So when you ask, "How did the Jewish People destroy the City AT THE CROSS," the answer is clear.
Seems a total crockification of the question at hand.

I wouldn't ask that question.

The question remains "When did the Jews or when will the Jews destroy the city of Jerusalem.

Not going to happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndianaRob

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
8,008
3,539
113
75
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
So, why would Messiah destroy Jerusalem?????????????????
Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!