THE CHURCH WILL NOT GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION ACCORDING TO DANIEL

[DJT_47]

""Cite the scripture""
I wonder if they'll dare try & cite Matt 24 ?
View attachment 79503

We'll see.

 

[Button]

""Cite the scripture""
I wonder if they'll dare try & cite Matt 24 ?
View attachment 79503

When I search for Bible verses Gateway is the first result.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24 - New International Version

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times - Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will...

www.biblegateway.com

Some say the Internet was prophesied in the Bible as well. Knowledge shall increase.
Daniel 12:4. Every eye will see Jesus return,Revelation 1:7. Advanced Tech.? Revelation 13.

We speculate but everything is in God's timetable. Not ours. And,these prophesies are so generalized they could apply at any time.

Stay secure in Christ,have enough oil for your lamps,and be ready always.

 

[rvmb]

When I search for Bible verses Gateway is the first result.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24 - New International Version

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times - Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will...

www.biblegateway.com

Some say the Internet was prophesied in the Bible as well. Knowledge shall increase.
Daniel 12:4. Every eye will see Jesus return,Revelation 1:7. Advanced Tech.? Revelation 13.

We speculate but everything is in God's timetable. Not ours. And,these prophesies are so generalized they could apply at any time.

Stay secure in Christ,have enough oil for your lamps,and be ready always.

To those who believe the Matt 24:21-30 GREAT tribulation has already occurred I simply ask them when & where ?
************
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[DJT_47]

To those who believe the Matt 24:21-30 GREAT tribulation has already occurred I simply ask them when & where ?
************
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Also read the parallel passages in Mark 13 and Luke 21. It's clearly talking about the fall of Jerusalem

 

[rvmb]

The fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Also read the parallel passages in Mark 13 and Luke 21. It's clearly talking about the fall of Jerusalem

Was that the Matt 24:21 GREAT tribulation ?
Did all the events in Matt 24:16-30 occur then ?
.

 

[DJT_47]

Was that the Matt 24:21 GREAT tribulation ?
Did all the events in Matt 24:16-30 occur then ?
.
View attachment 79504

Yes, the seige and eventual fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. WAS great tribulation, but not THE great tribulation. There is no "THE great tribulation". To see how great of a tribulation the seige and fall of Jerusalem was, just read the historical account of it written by Flavius Josephus

 

[rvmb]

Yes, the seige and eventual fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. WAS great tribulation, but not THE great tribulation. There is no "THE great tribulation". To see how great of a tribulation the seige and fall of Jerusalem was, just read the historical account of it written by Flavius Josephus

Did all the events in Matt 24:16-30 occur at the fall of Jerusalem ?
If not then how can it be the Matt 24:21 great tribulation ?

 

[DJT_47]

Did all the events in Matt 24:16-30 occur at the fall of Jerusalem ?
If not then how can it be the Matt 24:21 great tribulation ?

No one can definitively answer that. And was some of Matthew 24 possibly symbolic? I think, when you read the parallel scriptures in conjunction with the Josephus record, you can clearly link that event to the seige and fall of Jerusalem in A.D 70.

 

[rvmb]

No one can definitively answer that. And was some of Matthew 24 possibly symbolic? I think, when you read the parallel scriptures in conjunction with the Josephus record, you can clearly link that event to the seige and fall of Jerusalem in A.D 70.

Please list the Scriptural verses that you believe teach the Matt 24:21 great tribulation has already occurred.
Currently I accept & understand that many believers have gone through, go through & will go through John 16:33 type tribulations but as yet I have found nothing that teaches the Matt 24:21 GREAT tribulation has occurred.
Matt 24:16-30 I believe is a yet future event to occur after 1 Thess 4:14-17, 1 Cor 15:51-52.
As usual, I am happy to be corrected by Scripture alone.

 

[Doug]

What exactly is THE tribulation? A specific one that qualifies it as THE one, and not just tribulation?

Several purposes for the great tribulation
Fulfills prophecy
Judge a sinful world
Purifies Israel
separates unbelieving Israel from believing Israel

 

[DJT_47]

Please list the Scriptural verses that you believe teach the Matt 24:21 great tribulation has already occurred.
Currently I accept & understand that many believers have gone through, go through & will go through John 16:33 type tribulations but as yet I have found nothing that teaches the Matt 24:21 GREAT tribulation has occurred.
Matt 24:16-30 I believe is a yet future event to occur after 1 Thess 4:14-17, 1 Cor 15:51-52.
As usual, I am happy to be corrected by Scripture alone.

You're basically asking for scriptural validation that THE great tribulation of Matt 24 (so-called), has occurred and the simple answer to that is that there is none. Why? You must consider the timeframes of when things were written.

When was the last book of the bible, Revelation, written? Some say around 68-69 A.D., which would be before the Josephus historical record of the seige and fall of Jerusalem, while others say it was written around 95-96 A. D., which would place it after the seige and fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. I tend to believe it was written by John before, not after. Why? How old would John have been in 68 A. D. as opposed to 95 A. D., assuming his age to be about the same as Jesus age, said to be around 30 yo when he started his earthly ministry. That would mean John would have been maybe as old as in his in his 60s in 68 A.D. which would be plausible, as opposed to in his 90s in 95 A.D. which is less realistic and less plausible. Plus, if Revelation was written in the latter timeframe of 95-96 A.D., would there not have been some biblical/scriptural record of it like it maybe even being mentioned in John's Revelation? You draw your own conclusions. There is no scriptural record of the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., only nonscritural accounts of it such as that of Josephus.

Also, look very, very closely at the wording in the 3 accounts of record being discussed, namely Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Only in Matt 24 does the wording mention the "end of the world" or "age" which lends credence to your comment about verses Matthew 24:16-30 being applicable to a yet future event, like the second coming. Note too the wording of Luke 21:20 where it specifically states Jerusalem being encompassed by armies; Jerusalem is not so directly stated in Matthew or Mark, and that's where the non scriptural historical record of Josephus becomes pertinent. If this event in the 3 biblical accounts was NOT describing the fall of Jerusalem in 70A.D., it would mean there would have to be another such similar event yet to happen in the future including the building of the temple a 3rd time. Also, look closely at the wording when it changes from "ye" to "they". Note who Jesus is talking directly to; his disciples, and note when the wording changes to "they", meaning not those he's directly talking to. This is also significant as it infers other persons, not the disciples he's conversing with, and other possible timeframes.

All in all I'm, convinced that Matt 24 discusses the 70AD event primarily and not an event yet to happen.

 

[rvmb]

You're basically asking for scriptural validation that THE great tribulation of Matt 24 (so-called), has occurred and the simple answer to that is that there is none. Why? You must consider the timeframes of when things were written.

When was the last book of the bible, Revelation, written? Some say around 68-69 A.D., which would be before the Josephus historical record of the seige and fall of Jerusalem, while others say it was written around 95-96 A. D., which would place it after the seige and fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. I tend to believe it was written by John before, not after. Why? How old would John have been in 68 A. D. as opposed to 95 A. D., assuming his age to be about the same as Jesus age, said to be around 30 yo when he started his earthly ministry, although some say John was much younger than Jesus. That would mean John would have been maybe as old as in his in his 90s in 68 A.D. which would be plausible, as opposed to in his 120s in 95 A.D. which is totally unrealistic and implausible. Even if he was much younger as some suggest, his age would have been around 100. Plus, if Revelation was written in the latter timeframe of 95-96 A.D., would there not have been some biblical/scriptural record of it like it maybe even being mentioned in John's Revelation? You draw your own conclusions. There is no scriptural record of the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., only nonscritural accounts of it such as that of Josephus.

Also, look very, very closely at the wording in the 3 accounts of record being discussed, namely Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Only in Matt 24 does the wording mention the "end of the world" or "age" which lends credence to your comment about verses Matthew 24:16-30 being applicable to a yet future event, like the second coming. Note too the wording of Luke 21:20 where it specifically states Jerusalem being encompassed by armies; Jerusalem is not so directly stated in Matthew or Mark, and that's where the non scriptural historical record of Josephus becomes pertinent. If this event in the 3 biblical accounts was NOT describing the fall of Jerusalem in 70A.D., it would mean there would have to be another such similar event yet to happen in the future including the building of the temple a 3rd time. Also, look closely at the wording when it changes from "ye" to "they". Note who Jesus is talking directly to; his disciples, and note when the wording changes to "they", meaning not those he's directly talking to. This is also significant as it infers other persons, not the disciples he's conversing with, and other possible timeframes.

All in all I'm, convinced that Matt 24 discusses the 70AD event primarily and not an event yet to happen.

""All in all I'm, convinced that Matt 24 discusses the 70AD event primarily and not an event yet to happen.""
When all the events in Matt 24:16-30 occur, I'll be convinced too :)