Daniel 9:25 - the messiah the prince

TribulationSigns · Sunday at 7:45 PM

The Light said:
Seems a total crockification of the question at hand.

I wouldn't ask that question.

The question remains "When did the Jews or when will the Jews destroy the city of Jerusalem.

Not going to happen.

I did answer and have explained it. You don't like hearing my testimony. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that. :-)

TribulationSigns · Sunday at 7:48 PM

covenantee said:
Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Did the physical stones of Jerusalem kill the prophets? Or was it the children of the congregation which Jerusalem represents, have killed the prophets and the son? Take your pick, genius.

David in NJ · Sunday at 7:48 PM

claninja said:
In Daniel 9:25, there are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until “the messiah the prince.” Then, in verse 26a, it explains what happens after the seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, “the messiah” is cut off, and in verse 26b, the people of “the prince” who is to come destroy the city and the sanctuary.

If the “Messiah” in verse 26a naturally refers back to the “Messiah” in verse 25, why wouldn’t the “prince” in verse 26b also naturally refer back to the “prince” in verse 25? What in the grammar or context requires the reader to identify the repeated “Messiah” as the same figure, but treat the repeated “prince” as someone entirely different?

25. Know3045therefore and understand,7919that from4480 the going forth4161 of the commandment1697to restore7725 and to build1129Jerusalem3389unto5704 the messiah4899 the prince5057 shall be seven7651weeks,7620 and threescore8346 and two8147 weeks:7620the street7339 shall be built1129again,7725 and the wall,2742 even in troublous6695times.6256

26 a.) And after310threescore8346 and two8147 weeks7620shall messiah4899be cut off,3772 but not369 for himself:

26 b.) and the people5971of the prince5057that shall come935shall destroy7843 the city5892and the sanctuary;6944 and the end7093thereof shall be with a flood,7858 and unto5704the end7093of the war4421desolations8074 are determined.2782

MESSIAH is NOT the "prince of the people that is to come"

DEFINITELY NOT

ABSOLUTELY NOT

David in NJ · Sunday at 7:49 PM

IndianaRob said:
Jesus used that same desolate language himself in Matthew 23:38 when he said "your house is left unto you desolate," speaking over Jerusalem and its people. So I take "it" the same way, the house left desolate.

And the consummation is when God sent the armies in to destroy the city, which is the picture Jesus gave in Matthew 22:7 where the king sends his armies and burns their city.

IDK, but I know the parable has to match Daniels account.

what parable?

The Light · Sunday at 7:56 PM

claninja said:
What does this have to do with my question?

Your question is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the facts.

The facts are the Jew have not and will not destroy the city of Jerusalem.

The Light · Sunday at 7:59 PM

covenantee said:
Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Exactly. This is all prophesied. The Chief cornerstone is rejected.

Now read the rest of the story.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The Light · Sunday at 8:03 PM

TribulationSigns said:
Christ was cut off at the Cross, and at that very moment He confirmed the New Covenant by His blood (Hebrews 9). He had to die for the testament, or covenant, to be put into effect. That confirmation extends throughout the final week—the entire New Testament period—until all Elect are secured ... until the consummation at His Second Coming. Selah!

The covenant is not confirmed by Jesus.

Ya got the wrong prince.

claninja · Sunday at 8:08 PM

David in NJ said:
MESSIAH is NOT the "prince of the people that is to come"

DEFINITELY NOT

ABSOLUTELY NOT

From purely a grammatical/contextual standpoint, how do you know that?

IndianaRob · Sunday at 8:09 PM

David in NJ said:
what parable?

The Parable of the Tenants. The Lord of the vineyard (the Father) destroyed the wicked men, not the son.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

claninja · Sunday at 8:17 PM

The Light said:
Your question is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the facts.

The facts are the Jew have not and will not destroy the city of Jerusalem.

And MY op has nothing to do with your “facts”.

The question is simple, if the messiah in vs 26a is the messiah of vs 25, then what grammatical/contextual evidence are you using to determine that the prince of 26b is NOT the prince of vs 25?

Right now, you are giving me external framework - “Jews did not destroy Jerusalem ”.

I’m not asking about external framework. I’m asking about internal grammatical/contextual evidence.

David in NJ · Sunday at 8:56 PM

claninja said:
From purely a grammatical/contextual standpoint, how do you know that?

Purely from:
#1 - grammatical/contextual relevance
#2 - Gospel
#3 - Apostles
#4 - Genesis

covenantee · Sunday at 9:28 PM

The Light said:
Exactly. This is all prophesied. The Chief cornerstone is rejected.

Now read the rest of the story.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

You wanted to know "So, why would Messiah destroy Jerusalem?????????????????"

Did your eyesight fail?

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Try again.

ye would not!

ye would not!

covenantee · Sunday at 9:32 PM

TribulationSigns said:
Did the physical stones of Jerusalem kill the prophets? Or was it the children of the congregation which Jerusalem represents, have killed the prophets and the son? Take your pick, genius.

Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into His body of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in His body, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

TribulationSigns · Sunday at 9:54 PM

The Light said:
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

What blindness is this? What Israel is this? What does the fulness of the Gentiles refer to?

The Light · Sunday at 11:00 PM

covenantee said:
You wanted to know "So, why would Messiah destroy Jerusalem?????????????????"

Did your eyesight fail?

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Try again.

ye would not!

ye would not!

So Messiah was not happy so He will get the Jews to destroy their own city? OK. They would not.

The Light · Sunday at 11:09 PM

TribulationSigns said:
What blindness is this?

Romans 11
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

TribulationSigns said:
What Israel is this?

Romans 11
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

TribulationSigns said:
What does the fulness of the Gentiles refer to?

The Gentile harvest is complete except for the poor and the stranger.

covenantee · Sunday at 11:21 PM

The Light said:
So Messiah was not happy so He will get the Jews to destroy their own city? OK. They would not.

Who taught you that?

The Light · Sunday at 11:48 PM

covenantee said:
Who taught you that?

This guy. He said this..............

You wanted to know "So, why would Messiah destroy Jerusalem?????????????????"

Did your eyesight fail?

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Try again.

ye would not!

ye would not!

covenantee · 2026-07-20T00:52:45-0500

The Light said:
This guy. He said this..............

You wanted to know "So, why would Messiah destroy Jerusalem?????????????????"

Did your eyesight fail?

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Try again.

ye would not!

ye would not!

Your eyesight's deteriorated further. Now you're seeing phantom Jews.

Davy · 2026-07-20T04:03:30-0500

TribulationSigns said:
Well, let's see...

Revelation 1:5

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

(Notice no capitalization of prince--but I digress) Christ is the King of these kings of the earth, the Prince or ruler of kings. Christ, whom the church "represents."

The KJV translators had no need to capitalize "prince" because the context is directly pointing to the name Jesus Christ. So if you cannot see that difference, then no wonder many have a problem grasping the Daniel 9 examples.

And the subject is about Daniel 9 in English, not the Hebrew.

Daniel 9:25 - the messiah the prince

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